Skylines Downunder NZ Car Club

Technical => General Performance => Topic started by: TINDUCK RACING on September 05, 2001, 10:45:19 AM

Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 05, 2001, 10:45:19 AM
....Right gentlemen,let's cut the crap and be realistic...

!) we bought a turbo skyline.
2) probably because we saw them on Gran Turismo.
3) we can't get 900bhp by winning a few races in real life.
4) but they look the business..
5) ....and we feel sooooo good every time someone walks
past and says "look...a SKYLINE!!"....
6) but we don't tell anyone that they are not really that fast as standard......
7) most of us are not millionnaires and have saved every cent to get the car of our dreams.
8) so what can we do to get a few more horses out of the beast without costing us anymore of our hard earned bucks, and not risking our pride and joy being blown up.....

.........so........realistically......what's the cheapest way to more and better air flow.....can we use a bleed valve safely and effectively, and if so, how do we plumb it in....who out there has dyno results to prove that water spray CAN make a difference on the standard intercooler....does cutting wire #53 SAFELY remove the speed limiter....and is 10psi or 14psi the SAFE limit for boost on a standard R33 ceramic turbo....and where do you measure a SAFE level of boost from, is it the pressure at the plenum or just after the turbo....does a cone(pod) filter give more gains over a performance panel filter replacement or just more noise....

.....sorry, maybe too many questions for a single thread, but I hope that there are other proud owners around who also want to know if THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE.......

....PS: them taillights are cool though aren't they?

        Cheers,
                  Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 05, 2001, 10:57:42 AM
JESSSSUS!  So many questions!  Yea, I wish was a simple as the Turbo Kit # 4 and Stage 3 weight reduction whilst I'm at it thanks.  I just finished reading satcks of stuff on water-spray intercooling, so as far as I'm concerned, I'm an expert, and ready to go into business! :)  If you want a fairly un-bias view check this.

http://www.autospeed.com/A_0527/P_1/article.html

I did similar amounts of research on Air filters (more on R32 than 33), but it boiled down to "don't expect massive increases in horsepower just by adding a pod filter, and don't expect any one brand to perform much different to the next.  The most important thing is that there is enough ambient air, and that it is cold"  From this I took the cold air box approach (adapted from the standard one that the guys at Nissan so kindly made when my car was first popped out).

If you want free (or be it bloody cheap) performance, reset your computer, introduce yourself and your right foot, in a brutish display of formalities.  Run "the good oil" and get a nice shiney new fuel filter.
Title: Cortina trap
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 05, 2001, 11:13:11 AM
....Cheers 4nick...let's get the ball rolling.... thanx 4 the unbiased advice........so how long do you have to disconnect the battery to reset the brain, and how long do you have to thrash the living daylights out of it 'till it learns it's lesson??.....and what grade and spec would you call  " the good oil" ???
..........sorry 2 many more questions, but there are many of us out there who NEED to know........
....PS: is that a MK1 cortina in your avatar??
    cheers,
              Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 05, 2001, 12:20:24 PM
Were you a problem child?  Why is the sky blue, why do cows moo, why why why...... It's a good thing to ask though, I had some problems early on in the mod stage taking stuff out at random resulting in the loss of all steering...oops. :rolleyes:

I think you need to stomp on the anchors whilst it's disconnected (don't quote me on that one).

Most factory CPU's learn pretty quick, it's more so that the rev range and power is reflected in the depth of your pedal use.  Some of the other guys in the forum have had probs reseting the CPU then driving it 'round softly, it begins to think 1/2 pedal is full noise.  Most race guys will reset on a very regular basis (that's if they haven't changed to a Link or something).  Though I think in most cases it's best done just so it acclimatizes (temperature, altitude, fuel mixes etc etc) from where it first learnt it's characterisitics.

Whew!

Most people will say the good oil is something megga thin at temperature, but this needs to be offset against the mileage too.  In most instances Mobil1 will make a big difference to the sludge that it came with.  Good time to do the plugs too.  Don't lets get started on that one!

A Mk1? Why yes it is!  The Skyline is just the work hack (and a point of interest that keeps me on the fore-front of rice warez)  That one in particular isn't mine, mines in need of paint at the mo, so no pics yet.  It's a twincharged (4AG-ZE, with a EVO III turbo added for good measure) 1600 Toyota, with a few mods (Link, pulley etc).  That's my real love :dozey:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 05, 2001, 12:21:36 PM
Hey!  I see you're from Stoke on Trent, I have friends that grew up there......weird......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 05, 2001, 12:37:17 PM
the water spray thing all depends on how hot the air was to start with, not gonna get colder than the water thats getting sprayed on it. course cutting the wire #53 SAFELY removes the limiter!haha

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 05, 2001, 01:18:36 PM
i like this thread... lots of questions, and lots of questions that ALWAYS appear in my mind :)

looking forward to the replies...

Rowan
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on September 05, 2001, 02:22:26 PM
the ECU thing: yep, just disconnect the battery, stand on the brake pedal a couple of times, to make sure that all the juice is drained, then reconnect the battery and go for a drive. The alternative is disconnect and leave overnight, but I don't really see the point.

You could also wait for your alternator to die its inevitable death, then the battery will be drained real good. :p :p :jack: :rolleyes:
Title: TinDuck
Post by: MarioGTR on September 05, 2001, 02:43:49 PM
Your from Stoke on Trent?  As in near Newcastle (the smaller one)?  Near Stone?  In the UK?

Otherwise known as the arse end of the universe?

I used to work there.  What a dreadful place - I did a 9 month tour of duty and I still have nightmares about people in red football jerseys...

Mario.
Title: Re: TinDuck
Post by: unfamilia on September 05, 2001, 03:01:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MarioGTR
Your from Stoke on Trent?  As in near Newcastle (the smaller one)?  Near Stone?  In the UK?

Otherwise known as the arse end of the universe?

I used to work there.  What a dreadful place - I did a 9 month tour of duty and I still have nightmares about people in red football jerseys...

Mario.


mario - had a friend ring me one night at around 1am ( ?!@# ) just to tell me that he saw 'THE BEST BLOODY SKYLINE EVER' driving down the road next to him (he was passenger in a stock R33 GTST - gray) around castle hill/baulkham hills area....

He explained it to me, and i was like, hey they sounds damn nice... sweet blue/purple colour, gold rims, awesome big front mount, damn quick,....


3 days later i was browsing the net and came across your website after speaking with zillar... turns out it was your R33..

oh how i love the 'small world' feeling :D

btw - keep it up, reading the latest installments on your website is some of the only entertaiment i get here at work :)

Rowan
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 05, 2001, 03:30:52 PM
Looks like you've opened a can of worms here with all those questions.  Was just reading up on that question about 14psi on the old ceramic hairdryer.  I'm pick'n that at that sort of boost the standard ECU will be struggl'n to stop all detonation at high rpm, and I'm pick'n before you should be worrying about cranking the boost up you might want to price up some new brain power.  Boost isn't always proportional to power, remember that it's the same as a PC, it's only as fast as it's slowest component (eg, if the fuel pump can only handle 350cc to the injectors and you've just installed 600cc injectors, don't expect many gains etc).  I'd imagine you'd be best reading through the mod archives in the forum to work out the best stepp by step upgrades.  Usually it's pretty simple though, intake, then exhaust, then intercooler, then CPU, then turbo....blah blah blah.   Got me miffed with the bleed valve stuff, I'd quite like to see an answer to that one too.
Title: Re: Re: TinDuck
Post by: Merli on September 05, 2001, 04:46:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by unfamilia


mario - had a friend ring me one night at around 1am ( ?!@# ) just to tell me that he saw 'THE BEST BLOODY SKYLINE EVER' driving down the road next to him (he was passenger in a stock R33 GTST - gray) around castle hill/baulkham hills area....

He explained it to me, and i was like, hey they sounds damn nice... sweet blue/purple colour, gold rims, awesome big front mount, damn quick,....


3 days later i was browsing the net and came across your website after speaking with zillar... turns out it was your R33..


Rowan


When was this Rowan?

Last time I visited Con (few days ago), Both of Mario's GTRs were there... I didn't look in the engine bay of his R33, but last time I looked (about a week ago), the engine was still being worked on?

There is another R33 GTR like you described with rego AWB, which is a monster as well... It has the same paint colour as Mario's R33, and had big gold wheels as well...

Mario, you got your R33 back have you? How's the lawsuit looking for the R34? I saw the bellhousing for the gearbox and it looks like it would have made quite a noise :)


--
Andrew Ho
Title: The Story So Far......
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 06, 2001, 10:12:35 AM
........the definitive guide to common sense no-money Skyline tuning so far......

     (credits to an all star cast including:
             4NICK8
             unfamilia
             moondog
             David Kemps
             ...and special guest star MarioGTR )

    ....(Stoke's OK if you live in the nice end mario lol)

...anyways, here goes....
!) better air flow: looks like a replacement element supplies cooler and denser air than a pod (and costs less)
2) bleed valves: where and how....looks like the jury is still out on that one.
3) water spray on intercoolers: that one was answered brilliantly by 4nick8 if you follow the link on his post.
4) speed limiter: guess you all think it is safe to cut wire 53 so let's do it.
5) SAFE boost on standard turbo: ....let's have some more ideas.
6) BOOST....where do you measure it from....this has got to be important....if 10psi is safe, is that measured at the plenum after the pressure drop across the intercooler etc, or the actual boost just after the turbine????
7) resetting the ECU: ...thanks again 4nick8 (just got the joke BTW ....doh!!)
8) OIL.......is mobil1 surely too thin 4 these turbo lumps???
.....maybe mobil1 motorsport 15/50 is a better bet??

..............come on guys, let's have some more answers.....between us we can get the definitive guide together in one place..........any more answers?...anyone disagree totally who isnt trying to sell something?
          Cheers,
                       Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: slip on September 06, 2001, 10:45:45 AM
Re: 1) No, you need to GET the colder denser air, usually using a better flowing aftermarket air filter - pod or panel.  
Just putting in a new filter to the stock position doesnt change the air its getting.

1. Route colder air to the airbox and use aftermkt panel filter
2. Custom cold air box (dont ask me bout this)
3. Pod filter in front of left wheel or somewhere where it gets lots of fresh air. (you dont want the hot air from in the engine bay)
Title: cold air
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 06, 2001, 10:54:24 AM
......thanx slip, top answer....the colder the better....but surely only DRY cool air so under arch pods are out of the question if you live where it rains all the time?
....PS: has anyone ever used electrically powered heat exchangers to cool the intake air...(like strapping a 12 volt refrigerator round your intake pipes?)
     cheers,
                   Jon
Title: Re: Re: Re: TinDuck
Post by: unfamilia on September 06, 2001, 10:56:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Merli


When was this Rowan?

Last time I visited Con (few days ago), Both of Mario's GTRs were there... I didn't look in the engine bay of his R33, but last time I looked (about a week ago), the engine was still being worked on?

There is another R33 GTR like you described with rego AWB, which is a monster as well... It has the same paint colour as Mario's R33, and had big gold wheels as well...

Mario, you got your R33 back have you? How's the lawsuit looking for the R34? I saw the bellhousing for the gearbox and it looks like it would have made quite a noise :)


--
Andrew Ho


This was a few months back by the way! :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 06, 2001, 11:17:24 AM
I installed my own solonoid controlled bleed valve and found standard boost was 5psi till 4500rpm then jumped to 7psi. With the bleed I increased max boost to 10psi but the jup was still there. I have now disconnected and blocked off the factory solonoid (already t-pieced into the actuator line) and now the car only runs 5psi with the switch off but 10psi all the way through the revs with the switch on. Bottom end power is up by heaps.

This may be common knowledge but I had to find it out the hard way.
Title: bleeders.....
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 06, 2001, 11:29:21 AM
.....not common knowledge to everyone MFX....
.....any help is appreciated.
....I put in a bleed in parrallel to the factory solenoid and there is still a noticeable jump....so now I will try bypassing it altogether....

     PS: I have got the valve bleeding off to a return between the airflow meter and the turbo ( like the factory solenoid does) ...I assume this is better than bleeding to free air????

    PPS: when using a bleed to fool the wastegate actuator into seeing less pressure, surely some of the increased boost created just escapes out of the bleed you just put in, or am I missing something??

           Cheers,
                       Jon
Title: bleed valve
Post by: Asidbyrne on September 06, 2001, 12:10:33 PM
I have installed the turbo xcess hpbc and it goes in the line from the pipe just out from the turbo to the wastegate. The factory solenoid has been plugged and a FCD installed. Boost is set at abt 12 psi with an intentional spike at 12.5psi. No problems, peak boost from about 3500 in 1st and 3000 in 2nd.
Never had any probs with the jump

err only one of the solenoid lines is plugged, the higher one that originally came from the turbo out pipe

All dynoed and reliable with an apexi safcs.

Pod filters a bit of a problem since r33's dont seem to have space for a cold air duct. I just put one in and boxed it up with only a small hole behind th elamp to feed it. But temp difference inside and outside the box is noticeablt different especially at running temps. BTW box was initially a foam partition from UAS for 90 dollars, friend saw and bought 1 metre square of the same stuff from a rubber store for 10AD. So with the excess i amde a box out of it. Seems to work fine. Theoretically sound but butt dyno says nothing.

My boost pressure is measures off a t-piece from the manifold. Dunno if that is right but that was the way my  mech did  it.


I alwaysuse mobil1 bcos it is the cheapest most recommended and most tried oil i know. Prob better ones out there but they are a bit pricey and mobil 1 seems good.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 06, 2001, 12:24:45 PM
cheers asid, top reply mate.
 ....which grade mobil1 do you use, the 0w40 or the 15w50 ?
 .....weird, but over here mobil1 is about the most expensive synthetic you can buy, at £34 for 4 litres against £25 for 5 litres on other good brands....
     cheers,
                 Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 06, 2001, 12:37:41 PM
indeed a good thread with some valuable replies..

heres a question for you all:

since installing the bleed valve in my familia, my boost can be inscreased to about 13psi before it hits boost/fuel cut and you need to bump it down, but the car doesnt feel as strong (even at high boost level) than it did before the valve was installed...

The INITIAL power you get when the turbo spools up to full boost is a little punchier, but its like there is a MASSIVE flatspot after the initial rush of boost..

is this common ? Is there a way to have the boost curve work properly?

I lthink that i need to have the thing tuned properly, maybe reset my ECU,  consider more fuel maybe?

Thanks

Rowan
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 06, 2001, 03:03:50 PM
Jon: I actually have my bleed venting to the atmosphere. I probably should plumb it back in but I was in a hurry to get it done at the time and I havn't had any problems so far.

Rowan: This does sound strange, but one of my friend has a Ford Laser TX3 which has basically the same engine and drive line as the familia. We boosted his up and he often had problems with the car hitting the boost cut at about 14psi (and sometimes earlier). He has since gotten a unichip and that made a huge difference to the power delivery and really smoothed out the power curve.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 06, 2001, 03:08:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MFX_R33

Rowan: This does sound strange, but one of my friend has a Ford Laser TX3 which has basically the same engine and drive line as the familia. We boosted his up and he often had problems with the car hitting the boost cut at about 14psi (and sometimes earlier). He has since gotten a unichip and that made a huge difference to the power delivery and really smoothed out the power curve.



Yes, they are both based on the same engine, although the TX3 is de-tuned for AU ( boo! )..

The problem with getting a unichip is that I am looking at selling the car, so i dont really want to buy any more mods :(

But thanks for the info, i really do think its related to the bleed valve, although another mate of mine has one on his Tx3 and it runs fine! :(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 06, 2001, 03:23:34 PM
Rowan:
Have you tried playing with the restrictor before your bleed (do you have one?). If my memory serves me correctly if your restrictor is too small (or is it large?) your boost will spike before it settles. This could also be your flat spot. If you use a ball valve to act as your restrictor and start with it fully open and gradually close it you may have some luvk with your problem.



Another issue that I raised in another thread is that of removing the speed cut. I have been informed about cutting wire 53 from the ECU (thanks Jon) . Has anyone done this? Results? Also how are the wires numbered, so I make sure I cut the right one?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 06, 2001, 03:29:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MFX_R33
Rowan:
Have you tried playing with the restrictor before your bleed (do you have one?). If my memory serves me correctly if your restrictor is too small (or is it large?) your boost will spike before it settles. This could also be your flat spot. If you use a ball valve to act as your restrictor and start with it fully open and gradually close it you may have some luvk with your problem.

Another issue that I raised in another thread is that of removing the speed cut. I have been informed about cutting wire 53 from the ECU (thanks Jon) . Has anyone done this? Results? Also how are the wires numbered, so I make sure I cut the right one?


Thanks for the info - if i knew what you were on about id probably be of more help to diagnose the issue - but i wont kid anyone, im not the most mechanically minded person - i installed my front mounted intercooler - and that i thought was a rather big deal..

i dont know what to look for with what you just said - i might take somephotos tho if i can get a digi cam?




as for speed limiter - im limited to 180 as well in the familia, but c'mon - when are you actually going to go post 180k/hr?  unless of  course you track race on a track with a REAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALY bull**** long straight ( in a bull**** quick car ? :P )
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Blue T on September 06, 2001, 05:12:20 PM
Wow where do I start:eek:
Good pod filter good 3 inch exhaust and bleed valve.
This is about as far as Ive gone and without an aftermarket computer to tune it its really difficult to get it right, the more it goes out of the standard trim the more the normal comp has problems!:rolleyes: Have heaps of low end and midrange power but I dont think Ive got the fueling right for the top end hence the need for a computer to handle this. The standard r33 has problems with getting enough fuel for high boost levels up to 14lb you really need bigger injectors and bigger fuel pump. The bleed valve is a very blunt instrument at the best of times .
To really get the most of even a standard mod level you need some tuning ability with the computer:splat: so you end up against a brick wall with the standard chip.
Hope this helps :idea:
Title: number 53 wire
Post by: james-r33 on September 06, 2001, 07:21:34 PM
hi there,

just one question dose cutting number 53 wire work on a non turbo r33 ?

  Where is number 53 wire ?

  :laugh: :idea:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 06, 2001, 09:30:27 PM
i kno some of u guys reckon that cutting the speed sensor wire stuffs up hicas and has adverse affects but i have cut the wire a few months ago and everything works fine in my car, and so have many other people.

I have no limiter now at 180 because i have gone over 200kph, (on a race track of course) and my hicas still works fine, the light does not flicker and operates fine and the HICAS diagnostics does not pick up the speed sensor wire as being disconnected.

now my explanation for this is that the HICAS computer underneath the parcel tray will have a separate speed sensor wire going to it and that the speed sensor wire going into the engine computer is just for controlling the speed limiter only.

so after seeing personally what cutting the wire does i cannot see the point in spending $200.

i have a switch set up anyway so i can switch it on and off if i want.


the only possible thing is that it might affect the ABS on some cars but surely those cars have a separate computer in them to control the ABS and then they would have separate wires going to it from the wheel sensors NOT from the gearbox where the speed sensor wire going to the limiter comes from. They might have a speed sensor wire going from the gearbox as well tho to compare the speed of the wheel sensors with coming from the gearbox but it must be to a separate ECU because some GTS-T's have ABS and they have the same computer as mine just slightly modified for the turbo etc.

quite a few people with R32's and R33's have tried this and all have been successful.

here is the pic of the ecu no's, cut #53 and bye bye speed cut!


Dave
Title: Now we're getting somewhere...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 06, 2001, 11:08:36 PM
Hi all...
David: thanx for the ecu picture....but just to clarify, as the ecu is mounted vertically, is the left of your picture the uppermost part on the car??....(could go horribly wrong otherwise:D )

Blue T: already blown my budget on a full HKS system...sweet...so fuel pumps and injectors are out of the question right now....playing with a bleed valve at the moment, air filter mod will be next. thanx 4 the help.

MFX : hi, from what you are saying, have you basically taken the pipes off the factory solenoid, and put them onto the bleed valve( in effect) ? I've left it all as standard, but tapped into the in and out pipes to the solenoid, and basically bridged the bleed across them......have wound it out til it peaks at 10psi....does this seem ok ??
    cheers,
             Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 07, 2001, 08:35:26 AM
David K,  Yea, the Hicas CPU is under the parcel tray, on the right as you stand at the boot, or just above your head if your lyin in there mess'n with power amplifiers.  I took it out thinking it was an old amp or something, bad move.  Lost the steering also.  There's a similar box on the opposite side, not too sure what that one is, Atessa perhaps?
Title: Busy day...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 07, 2001, 09:02:14 AM
...Hi all....

   been busy today.
  1) took a deep breath and cut wire 53....nothing caught fire or exploded....runs fine.....lost my speed limiter though :D :D :D
  2) ran the diagnostic on the ecu...came up with error 34 - believe it is the knock sensor :( :( :(
HELP!! how serious is this??
  3) reset the ecu and gave the car a damn good tatering round the back roads....now it runs better than it has ever done :)

......but this knock sensor is bothering me....surely the ecu will not know if detonation is occurring....and that can't be good can it??

                                    HELP!!!!

             Jon
Title: Re: Busy day...
Post by: unfamilia on September 07, 2001, 09:05:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
...Hi all....

   been busy today.
  1) took a deep breath and cut wire 53....nothing caught fire or exploded....runs fine.....lost my speed limiter though :D :D :D
  2) ran the diagnostic on the ecu...came up with error 34 - believe it is the knock sensor :( :( :(
HELP!! how serious is this??
  3) reset the ecu and gave the car a damn good tatering round the back roads....now it runs better than it has ever done :)

......but this knock sensor is bothering me....surely the ecu will not know if detonation is occurring....and that can't be good can it??

                                    HELP!!!!

             Jon




u gotta have brass ones to cut a wire on your damn ecu... wouldnt see me doing that any day :)

But congrats on losing the 180 limiter :karate:

As for the knock sensor, im sure one of these skyline gurus will come to your rescue.. i would help, but id only be giving you false information :(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 07, 2001, 09:07:55 AM
unfamilia: cheers mate....
anyone:   HEEEEEELLLLLLLPPPPP!!!!!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 07, 2001, 09:40:48 AM
....so, my financially limited quest for power continues...
so far, thanx to a good helping of info from you guys, we have:
1) speed limiter removed       ......cost  0.00
2) new coils ( on warranty)    ......cost  0.00
3) new plugs ( warranty)       ......cost  0.00
4) bleed valve (blagged)        ......cost  0.00
5) boost gauge (direct)          ......cost£15.00
6) HKS cat-back system        ......cost£600.00 (don't tell the missus)

...so, the last one was hardly free, but what the heck...
(bleed valve made from tubing offcuts and a pneumatic valve)

7) next project: pod filter in cold air box.....tkinking a universal 550bhp rated pod at around £40 is a better bet than a HKS one at over £200???....watch this space......

...anyways, I digress..back to that knock sensor......
               HELP!!!
                  cheers,
                       Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 07, 2001, 09:41:59 AM
Tinbuck Racing - you can see which way round the pinouts are when u look at the ecu. good on ya for doing it, wasnt that hard eh? haha

as for the knock sensor, that could be bad, probably has not been working for ages tho but u just noticed it when u ran the diagnostics, so prob not that bad, but id see if u could check the plug going to the knock sensor, sometiimes they come loose.

Unfamilia - i dont think cutting a wire near the ecu is that bad. cause u can always join it back again if something happens. nothing is going to go majorly wrong that u cant fix.


Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 07, 2001, 09:43:38 AM
Quote
Originally posted by David Kemps

Unfamilia - i dont think cutting a wire near the ecu is that bad. cause u can always join it back again if something happens. nothing is going to go majorly wrong that u cant fix.


Dave



You're talking to king :king: paranoia buddy, if it can go wrong when doing something, it will go wrong with me :(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 07, 2001, 09:48:26 AM
Dave: how's it going??
        ...dumbass question #256....where's the knock sensor?
:homer:
                  cheers,
                       Jon

 unfamilia: know what u mean buddy....kinda expecting the tyres to go flat when I cut the wire :D :D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 07, 2001, 09:53:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
unfamilia: know what u mean buddy....kinda expecting the tyres to go flat when I cut the wire :D :D :D


heh, trust me man, when it comes to cars and modifications, NOTHING has ever been a straight forward install - ALWAYS something gone wrong, not just with me, anything to do with my car(s)  - BD4s, hybrid development, all of em, im telling you im jinxed... hopefully my next purchase of an R32 will be ok (PLEASE DEAR LORD MAKE IT A SWEET CAR WITH NO PROBLEMS!@#@!#!@ )


:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 07, 2001, 10:00:04 AM
"...when it comes to cars and modifications, NOTHING has ever been a straight forward install - ALWAYS something gone wrong...."

You wanna try having a car off the road for a full rebuild, I've been without my baby for over 2 years (think it's closer to 4 but I can't remember).

FYI, bought a new knock sensor when I put the motor back in.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 07, 2001, 10:01:26 AM
Quote
MFX : hi, from what you are saying, have you basically taken the pipes off the factory solenoid, and put them onto the bleed valve( in effect) ? I've left it all as standard, but tapped into the in and out pipes to the solenoid, and basically bridged the bleed across them......have wound it out til it peaks at 10psi....does this seem ok ??


Yeah that sounds like what I have done.
Now for me to cut the infamous wire 53!:eek:

Quote
Have heaps of low end and midrange power but I dont think Ive got the fueling right for the top end hence the need for a computer to handle this. The standard r33 has problems with getting enough fuel for high boost levels up to 14lb you really need bigger injectors and bigger fuel pump.


Blue T. Talking to a guy last night about this very problem. Apparently if you install a fuel pressure gauge you should be running about 250kpa (not sure on the units but the figures should be correct). You then get a pair of multi grips and VERY CAREFULLY start to bend in the top of the fuel pressure reg. First one side then the other. You have to be VERY careful as once you have gone too far you cannot go back. Watching the fuel pressure gauge keep going until you get upto 300kpa.

Haven't tried i myself but the guy I was talking to swears by it.

Jeff
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 07, 2001, 10:08:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MFX_R33



Blue T. Talking to a guy last night about this very problem. Apparently if you install a fuel pressure gauge you should be running about 250kpa (not sure on the units but the figures should be correct). You then get a pair of multi grips and VERY CAREFULLY start to bend in the top of the fuel pressure reg. First one side then the other. You have to be VERY careful as once you have gone too far you cannot go back. Watching the fuel pressure gauge keep going until you get upto 300kpa.

Haven't tried i myself but the guy I was talking to swears by it.

Jeff



backyard mods scare the **** outta me ;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 07, 2001, 10:10:29 AM
4nick: hi mate ...do ya know where this knock sensor is on the engine??

mfx: get that wire cut buddy...what's 250kpa in psi?...this sounds like another potentially classic free mod.....anyone else done it??
(the regulator thingy)

   anyways, back to this knock sensor error...is my car gonna explode in the morning or not??  HELP!!!

       cheers,
                  Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 07, 2001, 10:15:18 AM
its 36.25psi
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 07, 2001, 10:17:22 AM
Quote
...what's 250kpa in psi?...this sounds like another potentially classic free mod.....anyone else done it??


Can't help you there as I can't remember what exactly the units were (this is sounding dodgier by the minute), could have been kpa, psi, rpm.... I can't remember but the theory is sound basically look at what ever your gauge is reading and increase it by 20%. That's as good as I can do!

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 07, 2001, 10:17:51 AM
your cars not gonna explode or anything, probably has been like that for ages. the knock sensor just senses when the cars detonating so cuts power to stop damage. unless ur car is running high boost or modded, it wont be doing that so just get a new one soon, or check the plug for it.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 07, 2001, 10:24:45 AM
it would be 250kpa (36.25psi) because a lot of fuel pumps normally run between 35-45 psi. really beasty ones can run as high as 80psi! standard GTR pump runs at 36 - 40 psi at 4.5 litres/minute!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 07, 2001, 10:35:40 AM
Quote
its 36.25psi


Dave: cant you be a bit more precise :D ..seriously though, where is this goddam knock sensor??

...doesn't 36psi sound a bit low to anyone? I thought our cosworth sierras and even the lowly XR3 and XR4i ran 80psi bosch pumps........maybe I'm wrong though...

Jeff: squeezing the fuel reg with a big pipe wrench.....it's just gotta work......need a fuel pressure guage tho' .....
cheers,
           Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 07, 2001, 10:45:46 AM
SOMEONE must know where the knock sensor is...PLEASE?
.....don't want to kill it after upping the boost a bit :D
   
                 Help!    cheers,
 Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 07, 2001, 12:39:02 PM
knock sensor?  Not sure on the RB's, I replaced on the Cornaka motor, sorry dude.

GO THE FREE MOD THREAD!!!! :D
Title: FREE HORSEPOWER.....
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 08, 2001, 06:49:03 AM
.....Hi all.....methinks this thread has gone pretty well so far...
.....hope we can all save a few dollars here and there, and it's good to get some solid truths about tuning together in one place....without the usual bu@*&hit......:D :D :D

.....don't know about anyone else(would love to hear)...but I for one have got a car that goes faster, runs sweeter, uses 30% less fuel(proven) and accellerates harder.....and it's all down to you guys pooling no-nonsense information and experience....
...(brings a tear to the eye ;) )

(by removing the speed limiter, resetting the ECU, putting the RIGHT plugs in, upping the boost a bit)

....all sensible advice that can improe the enjoyment of your pride and joy, without the heartbreak of bodged mods that end in expensive tears...

....next time I get a day off, it's time to play with induction, and see if a big pod fed with cold air is worth the effort...

.....but in the meantime, PLEASE, ONE of you MUST know where the knock sensor is on an R33.......guess it is somewhere on the head, but a picture or descriptio would help

    .....thanx in anticipation,

                   Jon

  P.S:  GO THE FREE MOD THREAD!!!!!!!!
Title: Yet more questions....
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 08, 2001, 09:44:18 AM
........yup, more dumbass questions before all the previous ones have been answered.........

1) RBXXDET motors use platinum plugs as standard, NGK 11s,
which by definition are pre-gapped at 1.1mm, so WHY do several people on this forum swear by re-gapping them to 0.8mm ???
........the car is designed to run 1.1mm, the plugs are 1.1mm plugs, (else why not just buy the standard non-11 platinums)??
....so what are the benefits of changing the gap??

2) This may sound really stoopid, and I've mentioned it before, but spraying water onto the intercooler at the appropriate time increases it's capacity as an effective heat sink, thus cooling the intake charge and increasing power, so has anyone thought of cooling the charge further by electrical means (something along the lines of the aircon system) using free power from the alternator to refrigerate the intake air???.......just wondering....you know, sitting in your motor with the aircon on full blast,just how much power we could gain if we cooled the intake charge as much as our feet...:)

(not that stoopid a question surely??)

3) PLEASE can someone point to the knock sensor (pinking, pinging, detonation, pre-ignition,whatever you call it) on the RB25DET motor???

.........anyways, happy horsepower guys,
                     cheers,
                            Jon.
Title: YEEEEHAAAHHH!!!!
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 09, 2001, 10:48:43 AM
......just been out to check the speed limiter is still gone ( you have to keep an eye on these things you know) :D :D :D

......goes kinda quiet on these forums at the weekend doesn't it??

......any more good ideas out there???

......or plain crazy ones??

......or things you really SHOULDN'T do??

                  Cheers,
                              Jon.

             SDU FOR BEST WEBSITE EVER YAY!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on September 09, 2001, 12:04:26 PM
well the rb25de motor has two knock sensors on the block next to cylinders 2 and 4 under the intake
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on September 09, 2001, 01:43:09 PM
er the little silver matchbox sized doohickeys?
Title: DOOHICKEYS
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 09, 2001, 09:14:29 PM
...You guys got a picture of them??
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 10, 2001, 08:39:38 AM
Tinduck,

I think the reason for lowering the gap on the plugs is because mod'ing the engine, and changing boost effects the deliverability of spark over that distance.  For similar reasons people suggest using a thicker metal head gasket to reduce compression.

Any luck with that knowck sensor?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 10, 2001, 10:07:44 AM
4nick,
...sensible answer mate....so if the boost is upped to , say, 10psi, then it's a good idea to reduce the gap from 1.1 to 0.8mm....?

( less chance of the spark being blown out I suppose? )

....not had a chance 2 look for the knock sensor yet.....hoping it's just a dodgy connection or something else as cheap :D

                     Cheers,
                               Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 10, 2001, 10:17:23 AM
Jeez!  Check out my spelling of Knock!!! What the hell is a W doing in the middle of that word?  That key's no where near the C or the O!  Wayyyeeee too many bloody mary's with breakfast!

Hey is that Speedlimiter wire the same for R32's as it is for 33's?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 10, 2001, 11:21:28 AM
...downt knwow :D :D :D :D

.......no harm in trying mate....u can always reconnect a cut wire;)

                   cheers
                          Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Cob@lt60 on September 10, 2001, 01:01:39 PM
Just a quick note, I got my car serviced and tuned the other week and asked about a SAFE boost presure.

The answer i got was a GTST with standard intercooler can make 1bar/14.5psi without to many problems.

Also regarding the plugs.. my mechanic put in NGK platinum plugs with a .80mm gap because with Australias dryer weather they are better also when you up the boost as you've said before the car will run nicer.

I reset my ECU this morning  seems to be running a bit better now..

Ahh also another tip.. ive heard that if you block off the pipes to the Carbon Canister the car has better response.. Can anyone tell me if this is true?

MARK.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 10, 2001, 06:41:26 PM
4Nick8: yes the speed limiter wire is the same, #53 ive cut it with no problems at all.
Title: Monday Monday.....
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 11, 2001, 06:07:12 AM
.......ahhh, as the sunlight rises over the southern horizon, the great antipodean tuning beast slowly stirs from it's weekend slumber.....

MORNING ALL !!!!!

Cob@lt60: Hi mate, welcome to the thread....
.......1 bar boost is safe with the standard ceramic turbo???
.......Oh how I hope that's true......comments anyone??
( is that with standard fuelling?)
........guess I'll have to re-gap my plugs to 0.8mm and report back on the results........
.......glad the ECU trick worked 4 you too mate...
.......carbon canister.....dunno, can't see myself how it would make a difference......hope 2 hear otherwise :)
.......cheers 4 the help mate ....catchya soon....


4nick:   CUT THE WIRE,CUT THE WIRE,CUT THE WIRE.....

                :D :D :D :D :D
     
                Cheers dudes
                            Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on September 11, 2001, 07:25:31 AM
1bar on a 32gts-t is less dangerous than a 33gts-t.

But 1bar is not exactly safe on either.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 11, 2001, 08:04:28 AM
Yea, I've got a 155km trip tonight, for a job in Taupo, I'll see if I can make 190.  Will let you know.  Interested to hear about the std intercooler being good for that much boost, I had that planned as the next mod.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 11, 2001, 09:40:54 AM
Slow: less dangerous on R32? ...why so ?
....didn't seem to think 1bar was big or clever on either??

4nick: guess ya cut it then buddy.......tell me how it goes...I seem to get a little "blip" ....slight hesitation.... at 85mph (137kph)....that I didn't before....but all seems fine after that....on a private freeway of course...........

....anyone else got an opinion on SAFE boost 4 the standard setup???

                    ....cheers guys,
               Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 11, 2001, 09:43:54 AM
I think the compression is a little lower on the 32's, so you are able to run higher boost.  I guess that's why they say the RB20DET's take better to perfomance tuning than the latter series motors.

Countdown to delimiting - T minus 75 minutes and counting.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 11, 2001, 09:51:48 AM
4nick8 - I checked to see if my speed limiter worked and hit 190km/h. I then decided. I later found (mid drag) that it doesn't kick in till about 190km/h. I hit it again the other night (I really have to get off my arse and cut that wire!).

Jon - I have been told on may occasions that you souldn't run any more than 14psi on the standard turbo. I was lucky (I try to look at the positive side) that my turbo was stuffed when I got my car so I got it re-built and high flowed with metal wheels. I don't really notice much more lag, and I can now run 1 bar without hesitation, downside is it cost me $1300AUS :(

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 11, 2001, 10:00:09 AM
......makes sense mate...but does a reasonably tuned RB20 make more than the same tune on an RB25..??
(not that it matters really)

.......anyways...

.....4nick: 75 mins 2 cut a goddam wire????....think yer Mel Gibson or something?? lol

........do a diagnostic on the ECU while it's unbolted mate....well worth it.......

.........good luck,

Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 11, 2001, 10:03:17 AM
How do you do a diag?
Title: diagnostics.....
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 11, 2001, 10:34:21 AM
.......(this is not my own work...think I got it elsewhere on this site or similar)

.......you must have found the ecu to cut the limiter wire, so while you are there, remove the three bolts securing it to the bulkhead, floor and lower dash.......carefully wiggle the ecu from it's position....don't damage the loom.....

........turn the ecu around....the face furthest from the wires has a small dial and a LED....( later models have 2 led's)

.......find a screwdriver small enough to turn the small dial...

......take a deep breath.....

......turn the ignition on ( but don't start the engine )

.....the red LED will start to glow...

.......CAREFULLY turn the small dial CLOCKWISE fully...

......the LED will go off......

......then turn the LED fully anticlockwise......

......the LED will start to flash.....

......long flashes then short, repeatedly, 'til you switch off the ignition or start the car....if the sequence is five long then five short flashes, the code is 55, which means all is OK...3 long then 4 short means a faulty knock sensor....if you get anything different, tell me , and I will post the whole set of error messages...

........here's hoping for a 55...

 .....Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 11, 2001, 11:38:19 AM
Weck-ed....Maximum respect!  Cheers.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on September 11, 2001, 01:30:57 PM
Hi guys,

Theres an easier way to get the ECU into Diag mode.  Near the fuse pannel box on the drivers side (not the boot) there is a grey plug.  On the plug there are two wires all by themselves.

If you short these two wires out for two seconds while the ignition is in the ON position the check engine light will flash the codes.

There is a pic of the plug in this thread;

http://gtrforums.krypt.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2859

I did it on the weekend and it works a treat.

To get it out of diag mode just turn the ignition to the OFF position.

J
Title: Another free tip
Post by: Arven on September 13, 2001, 12:44:03 AM
:idea:

So has anyone got any more information about the whole wastegate actuator rod fix? by bending the rod you simply
change when the wastegate will become full open, and more Boost? i have heard roumours about this, and it sounds good! i will try it once i get my boost guage this weekend.

**Crosses fingers**
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 13, 2001, 10:50:38 AM
...Cheers Jay95....gotta try that one....sounds like a brilliant tip, after f'£%ing about under the passenger well all afternoon...

....arven: ...actuators....dunno if you should mess with them...any thoughts out there??

....Has anyone got a link to the ecu fault codes in total for those who would like to know???( I printed them off, but forgot where I got them)

        *****MY SYMPATHIES AND CONDOLENCES TO THOSE INVOLVED IN RECENT AND IMMINENT TRAGEDIES AROUND THE PLANET*****

          Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 13, 2001, 12:13:08 PM
Thanks Jay. That info is great, and I am halfway through putting in a switch so I can easily reset the ECU (this way you don't have to set the clock and program in the radio stations again) and perform the diag'.

Cheers, Jeff.:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 14, 2001, 09:45:35 AM
....cheers 2 Jay, I'm gonna put a reset switch in as soon as it stops bl@@dy raining......
.....Didn't realise that going into diagnostic mode also reset the ECU........this has got to be a bonus......car ran like a dream for days after resetting it, but a few days of rush hour commuting in heavy traffic, and it seems to peak at low revs again, and falter when the rare opportunity of a quick blast comes about....from what you guys are saying, I hope that this will cure it......
.....will keep ya informed.....

.....any more good ideas out there??

GO THE FREE MOD THREAD!!!!!!

         Cheers,
 Jon.
Title: speed limiter
Post by: DEVEUS on September 14, 2001, 10:05:56 AM
hi guys,

i had my speed limiter removed by moving the little sensor out of the way so it got no signal but in doing so i lost the speed sensitivity in my steering - went heavy with low speeds.

Whats the story with wire # 53?????????

Has anyone lost there speed sensitivity by cutting that wire?

Interested to know:confused:

And by the way for some reason i also lost that speed sensitivity when i converted from auto to manual.  May have cut out a circuit that it runs off - does anyone know about this either?????:confused:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 14, 2001, 10:16:21 AM
Hi deveus....
.....everyone said cutting wire 53 to the ecu was safe.....tried it myself, speed limit is gone, and no side effects have been apparent....steering is fine at all speeds, hicas light does not flicker, handling seems as normal....
.....mucking about with speed sensors is therefore a bit pointless.....
......dunno about the manual conv. though....bit too brave for me lol.
         cheers,
 Jon.
Title: speed limiter
Post by: DEVEUS on September 14, 2001, 10:24:09 AM
Tinduck cheers for your reply,

Where can i fin this wire 53?:confused:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 14, 2001, 10:27:25 AM
Tinduck, is yours manual?:confused:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 14, 2001, 10:41:26 AM
Dev:  yes, I'm stuck with a slush box.....only 'cause they're about a grand cheaper than manuals over here....
....find the ecu behind the passenger kick panel in the floorwell....wire 53 can be identified by the diagram posted earlier on this thread.......if memory serves, it's yellow with a green trace and silver spots....but don't quote me on that......CUT IT......
......you can always reconnect a cut wire if you go wrong mate....

cheers,
 Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 14, 2001, 10:48:27 AM
I'm out of free mod ideas...though I think if you get a selection of stickers on the doors, it should at least feel a whole heap quicker.  I guess the natural progression for this thread is "Almost Free Horsepower" - Best bang for your buck mods.  I'd say it'd be the small things like a strut brace, intake upgrades, perhaps some boost things....anyone got any ideas?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 14, 2001, 10:59:08 AM
*RICE ALERT*

....4nick.....hi mate how ya doing?
....stickers don't count....they cost too much :D :D :D

....I personally don't think strut braces make any difference on public roads...(but I'm usually wrong :) )....anyone beg to differ??

....as goes intake upgrades, I'm thinking of putting in a cold air box division in the engine bay, but retaining the factory air box, minus it's lid and original feed, and replacing the element with an aftermarket one, feeding cold air thru ducts from the bumper....think this will sound good, and flow well for little bucks....any thoughts out there??

cheers 4nick,
 Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 14, 2001, 11:27:13 AM
Tinduck...
The way i did it was to retain the original airbox - put a k+n filter pad in it and i ran a 2.5" cold air duct from the front bar up under the head light through where the plastic elbow goes - discard that - and into the factory inlet - to seal it i used a piece of motor scooter inner tube about 150mm long and stretched it over the inlet and over the pipe and cable tied the whole lot in place!

It goes heaps better and is only getting cold air through a k+n!;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 14, 2001, 11:31:00 AM
.....sounds like a good plan mate.....(and cheap!)
....don't you miss a bit of induction roar though:D
.....can we get the best of both worlds??

cheers matey
Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 14, 2001, 12:07:03 PM
Yea is prolly bit quieter now but better performance so who cares......................:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 14, 2001, 12:28:33 PM
.....good point.......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 14, 2001, 12:29:53 PM
the thread that will never die !
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 14, 2001, 02:49:33 PM
DEVEUS
Like the idea, might see if it can be done in fixed stainless though.  Perhaps there's the possibility of changin the air feed a little once I get that stupid intercooler outta the tyre-well, a strainght feed from there might be a bit dirty though....hmmmm
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 14, 2001, 03:28:59 PM
My air duct runs from the airbox through the body behind the head light horizontal and down under the light to face forward in front of the std i/c.  Hasn't picked up bugger all crap yet.  It is open to rain and anything that flicks up off the road but is behind some stainless mesh..........;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 15, 2001, 10:20:08 AM
Hey Deveus:
....You got a picture of your intake mod mate???

              Jon.
Title: Air Intake Mod
Post by: DEVEUS on September 15, 2001, 11:52:06 AM
No sorry Tinduck.......

I haven't yet, but i will organise some and get them posted up for you - really basic but with impressive results - cost me $5:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Emre on September 15, 2001, 09:10:32 PM
hi fellas...
done this ecu diagnostic thingy and got an error message... two long and one short flash so i got an error 21 message... anyone know what it is..??  where can we get a full list from..?
Title: Boost
Post by: SlowGTS-t on September 16, 2001, 03:19:14 AM
On subject of boost, R32's with a big bore exhaust run 0.75-0.8 bar of boost standard (11-12psi) so 14.7psi (1 bar) is not a huge jump.

R33's run a lot less (0.6 bar?? not sure) so 14.7 psi (approx 1 bar) is a big jump

er.. but many people will say the same thing. 1 bar is a bit too much for either.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GraemeWi on September 16, 2001, 10:13:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Emre
hi fellas...
done this ecu diagnostic thingy and got an error message... two long and one short flash so i got an error 21 message... anyone know what it is..??  where can we get a full list from..?


21 is the code for the ignition circuit

A list of codes is available here (http://www.overflow.250x.com/_framed/250x/overflow/diagnostics.htm#ECU)

Cheers,

GW
Title: ECU codes
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 16, 2001, 12:44:10 PM
Codes:

11 Crankshaft position sensor
12 MAF sensor circuit
13 Coolent temperature circuit
14 Vehicle speed sensor circuit
21 Ignition circuit
31 ECU (ouch!)
34 Knock sensor
43 Throttle position circuit
45 Injector leak
51 Ignition circuit
54 Auto signal to ECU
55 All OK


....whatever that all means :D :D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 16, 2001, 12:48:37 PM
Jay95R33:

....cheers again buddy...I've just used that little grey plug to do the diagnostic and reset the ECU.....

......car runs better again :D :D :D

......still getting error 34 :eek: :eek: :eek:

......ah well..........

cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Emre on September 16, 2001, 03:00:42 PM
graeme and tinduck... thanks for the error codes list...

i had taken the coils and plugs out earlier in the day and everything seemed ok... and i did the diagnostic again today and 55 flashed... so whatever caused that error 21 to come up is unknown ...

is it confirmed that each time you do a diagnostic test ecu resets itself...?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 16, 2001, 03:20:13 PM
Man, who the hell did the colour coding on the ECU wires!?!?!?  Green and Gold, Gold and Green, Green Gold and Green, Green Gold and Gold.........must've been an aussie!!!  No more speed limiter...yay!

Whilst I was there I did the diag......held my breath......and counted....... :confused:

55!!!! Wohooooo

Man, I feel so much better now.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 666 R32 on September 16, 2001, 03:55:58 PM
Hey ppl,
I can't view tht ECU pic on page 2, it keeps saying error locating object handler
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 17, 2001, 08:08:51 AM
It's because of the browsers file association with the file type.  Save it some where and it should open with one of the Windows default viewers.  Alternatively, save it some where, right-click on it, and select the 'open with' option from the drop-down box, MS Paint should be OK to view it.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 17, 2001, 08:43:36 AM
Evening all....(well morning to you I suppose:D )


.Emre: yes, the ecu seems to reset each time mate (bonus!)

..4Nick: well done buddy: GO THE FREE MODS!!!!!
(congrats on a 55 btw)

...666: you got that ecu pic sorted yet??


....anyways, I put a switch across the grey diagnostic plug today....now I can reset the ecu every time I fancy a blast...:D :D :D :D :D

......still getting error 34 though  :headbutt:

...tried to find the knock sensor ...saw a wire or two going to a round plug just above and about 6 inches forward of the oil filter on the drivers side of the block.......anyone confirm if this is it???


Cheers folks,

 Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 17, 2001, 10:59:15 AM
Good to see the thread is still going strong!

A little thing I found on the filter front.
I installed a pod filter and retained the factory cold air feed from under the bonnet (still have to get off my arse and put in a heat sheild), and the most noticeable change is that you can now hear the car spooling up and the factory blow off valve is quite clear. So much so that I'm no longer getting an aftermarket BOV (I know it's "rice" but I like the sound.. Dammit!!:dfinger: ). The other benefit is that this way you get the sound without screwing up the mixtures on gear changes :) .

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Blue Streak on September 17, 2001, 04:35:55 PM
MFX,

I'm not an expert on this, but I'm pretty sure that the sound you are getting is actually the pod filter and not the factory BOV.  I have a GFB BOV and a Pod Filter and they both make a Pshhhhht sound.  I asked my mechanic and he told me that some filters will make that sound if the bov (factory or aftermarket) doesn't vent all boost.   Any air still in the intake pipes gets blown back out the filter on gear changes....


Makes sense to me and the guys I use work soley on imports....


Brett
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on September 18, 2001, 07:22:12 AM
A huge volume of air is needed to make a sucking sound in the air filter. The whoosh is indeed the factory blow off valve venting just after the pod. THe factory airbox used to muffle that.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 18, 2001, 08:17:48 AM
....EVENING ALL....

Hi Jeff:cheers 4 the info mate....I fancy the idea of the " rice whoosh " without the overfuelling......I've already got a BOV venting to atmosphere, but a "retro mod" isn't out of the question hehehe....
.....like the idea of using the existing cold air feed from under the bonnet.... don't get much cheaper than that.....
......that gives me an idea.....might remove the standard airbox lid, clip in a new panel filter, leave the lid off, fix the factory cold feed back in place somehow.....(putting in a heatshield of course)....maybe this will still give the induction roar and blowoff noise, with better flow for less bucks.............or maybe not......anyone tried it???

Blue streak: any pressure left in the system after throttle closing that does not vent through the BOV will indeed blow back through the turbo vanes to the filter.....but this makes a "wibble" sound (technical term :D ) ...not a whoosh....
.....if you want to know what I mean, just blank off the factory BOV completely.....it's a strange noise, pretty cool for a bit, but it's ultimately the noise of your turbo stalling and eventually goung pop.......

.......anymore ideas dudes???

GO THE ( NEARLY ) FREE MOD THREAD!!!!!!

Cheers,

Jon.
Title: ....and another thing.....
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 18, 2001, 08:30:20 AM
.....hang on a moment......if I remove the aftermarket BOV, surely the car won't massively overfuel on gear changes......where the heck am I going to get the big flame-outs from now !!!!!!!
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
hehehehehe

Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 18, 2001, 08:45:42 AM
Still not entirely confident aftermarket BOV's are good, or even if they're not detrimental to the cars health.  I read that they can polish the bore, and even in these forums the problems they have caused not sealing properly.  I've got a massive HKS one that I haven't taken the time to fit for these reasons (oh, and the girlfriend would never speak to me again if our car made that noise).  I'm just not too sure it's a good thing.......  If there were obvious benefits it'd be on there like yesterday.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 18, 2001, 08:55:24 AM
.....Hmmmmm... more training you need young Jedi....

....If in doubt: TRY IT!!!!!

....you can always take the damned thing off again......and you might just get addicted 2 the noise......just tell the missus it's a fuel saving device :D :D :D

.....pains me to think of such a lovely bit of HKS kit just sittin' unloved in a box....
....the bore of the BOV becomes polished over time, but I can't see how it can affect the engine internals mate......
......as for obvious benefits, how can you argue with :
1: sexy noise
2: increased turbo life
3: quicker spool-up
4: BIG flames on gear change
5: bigger fuel bills lol

hehehe
thanks as ever 4nick,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 18, 2001, 09:03:45 AM
The flames are a concern too, at 3.5 inch, I've got enough exhaust to hide entire afganistan terrorist groups for months.  I no longer have tailgaiters any more, as the flames force traffic back about 5 meters.  I just don't think I need any more fire right now.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 18, 2001, 09:14:00 AM
hehehehehehehehe :D :D
....I've got a HKS 4" hiper muffler with 5" tail.....I smuggle refugees through customs concealed in it at weekends :D :D
.......it's nice when racing to be able to at least incinerate the opposition if you can't blow them into the weeds though :D :D
.......anyways.....
Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 18, 2001, 09:26:06 AM
4NICK8,

If u don't want your HKS one i'll buy it off you cheap:D

$50 sound all right?:D

dumb querstion here guys -

What is "rice" that you guys talk about - i'm a bit lost
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 18, 2001, 09:31:27 AM
D,
I was given it by a mate, so I have no idea what they're worth new.  Given this one has a big rice label I'm sure it must be worth a few bob over 50.  I planned to put it on the 65MK1, but dunno if a 1600 needs such a massive BOV.

Check http://www.rice.com, or a do google search.  Applies more to the TypeR boys and those FWD guys who think they know about performance.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 18, 2001, 09:41:58 AM
Deveus: Hi mate...

....Einstein once said:
If Appearance < Performance, then Car = Sleeper,
If Appearance > Performance, then Car = RICEMOBILE.

(think that was him anyways hehehe )

cheers,
 Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 18, 2001, 09:58:08 AM
I actually think it was Confucious.

Dont pick on my spelling either!!!:mad:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 18, 2001, 10:06:52 AM
4nick8,

I went out Collins Road last night after work........

Road tested wire # 53

hmmmmmmmmm

240km/h roughly + superlow kings springs + Collins Road = f..ken bouncy car.

Works though - had a little spaz at 180km/h - lost all power then she came back to life and i wound her out until i could read the stop sign and panicked - na takes a bit to stop her at that speed though......

Where were you??????
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 18, 2001, 10:13:49 AM
Didn't get a chance, was thinking maybe some of the back roads to Morrinsville are better (flatter, not all peaty).  Unfortunately a little orange warning light is on my dash board signifing I'm a cheep git and I really should fork out for some more gas.

My B 2morrow.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 18, 2001, 10:19:44 AM
Sweet as i know the feeling.....

My light is glowing too and paydays not for another couple yet..........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 18, 2001, 10:40:49 AM
.....found an easy way to solve the fuel price problem guys.......
........It's called a credit card.....:D :D


....P.S: Anyone know how to solve the credit card problem......

Cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 18, 2001, 10:43:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
.....found an easy way to solve the fuel price problem guys.......
........It's called a credit card.....:D :D


....P.S: Anyone know how to solve the credit card problem......

Cheers,

Jon.


heeheh  :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 18, 2001, 11:48:52 AM
das is funny.......hehehe, most everyone in the office got some joy outta that one! :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on September 18, 2001, 12:04:21 PM
Aftermarket BOV"s actually do the turbo more harm than good as they only vent when you are at full noise. The rest of the time they just stay shut (eg part throttle on and off) and you can hear the turbo chattering.

But they do improve response.

4NICK8, I'd be keen on the hKS if the price was right hehehee
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 18, 2001, 12:09:33 PM
Riiiiiight....so what your saying is you wouldn't use one but you'd quite like to own my one....hmmmmm......let me see now.....where is the logic in that...hmmmm.  Still not too sure if I might just chuck it on the Cornakka, as that'll be driven pretty hard most of the time.

What are they worth new?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 18, 2001, 12:37:46 PM
Slow GTS-T : Hi mate....question: if the aftermarket BOV has the exact same spring rate as the factory recirculating unit, and therefore opens at the same pressure and time, then how can it cause any more harm to the turbo????
.....the only downside I can see is a potential fouling of the spark plugs from the momentary overfuelling caused by fooling the air flow meter...
.....as for "turbo chatter"....could this be either wastegate chatter(common) or even BOV spring bounce( which I seem to suffer at highish boost)

4nick:....seems strange, but alot of guys seem to want to buy that useless damaging BOV off you mate......

hehehe
.....stay cool dudes....
cheers
Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 19, 2001, 09:57:12 AM
I still like the factory bov, but I am now getting a front mount i/c and getting the throttle body removed and placed on the forward most end of the plenum (save excessive pipework). But with this set up I may have to get an aftermarket BOV :( . I had a look and recirculating from that side of the engine bay neatly (car will be a show car) will be very difficult.

Jeff
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on September 19, 2001, 10:22:30 AM
Try disconnecting the return line and rev your car up and down from the engine bay with your hand over the factory BOV outlet. Notice how its almost always venting? The factory BOV is open under most vacuum conditions (even idle). SInce it vents back into the intake line, it doesnt matter. AFtermarket ones have to be set to a much higher spring tension so that they only open when A LOT of vacuum is in the manifold.

I must appologise for I am a rice boy(in more ways than you realise hehehe ). I was going to install an external one as well as the factory one and run them both in parallel. Think of the double choof plus pssh .. hehehehe. And the flames.. oh the flames.

:laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 19, 2001, 12:03:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlowGTS-t
... I was going to install an external one as well as the factory one and run them both in parallel. Think of the double choof plus pssh .. hehehehe. And the flames.. oh the flames.


Or you could just fit a second turbo, or supercharger (EG "Twincharged"!!!!! <- check the avitar) ;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on September 19, 2001, 12:30:51 PM
Ah yes but then it would blow my $50 budget heheheheh
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GTIGav on September 19, 2001, 01:26:32 PM
sorry for bringing up something that was said ages ago but...

Someone said why not take free power off the alternator and run a refrigeration system... One reason is that this seemingly FREE power is not free. As you draw current from the alternator, the engine has to work harder to spin it. This is why when you're idling and you turn your lights, or big booming stereo on, you can see the rev needle drop slightly. I'm guessing that you would need quite a big compressor to run a refrigeration system that would cool the air enough to get significant gains in horsepower. The added weight of the system and the current that the compressor draws would out weight this.

Gav
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 19, 2001, 01:39:02 PM
Or if you could spare it, use the air-con to cool it.  There are a few BMW's with fridges in the back or glove-boxes that can are being replumbed to ehaust manifods and all sort of weird sheet!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GTIGav on September 19, 2001, 01:41:25 PM
i can understand cooling the intake but why make the exhaust gas colder?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 19, 2001, 01:53:53 PM
Hot air is attracted to cooler spaces, they use exactly this method to increase performance of power stations some 15-20% (I did a paper on it at 'varsity).  It's that principle that makes that silver exhaust rap stuff so successful.  I'm sure if there was a practical option (water cooling exhaust manifolds) it would be heaps more common, though I'd imagine you'd need loads of water (probably pumped from the boot), and some way to cool the water, I doub't the weight of all the required hardware would offset the increase in power.  But hey, were thinking aren't we......I'm sure Mr Mercedes or HenryF would be impressed......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GTIGav on September 19, 2001, 02:10:43 PM
I thought the idea of the silver exhaust tape was to keep the heat inside the exhaust so it didn't warm your engine bay and hence warm your intake and the air going into your intake.

Hot air is less dense so can travel faster through the exhaust, right?

Gav
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GTIGav on September 19, 2001, 02:19:11 PM
If it was an advantage to cool the exhaust manifold, surely car maufacturers would plumb them into the cooling system like the inlet manifold is on some cars. (even though thats used for heating the intake for cold restarts.)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on September 19, 2001, 02:53:24 PM
Thermo wrap keeps the heat from the engine bay and also makes the exhaust gasses hotter, hotter gasses flow better

Take a look at this on the subject of using the a/c to cool the intake
http://www.autospeed.co.nz/A_0436/page1.html
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: madrose on September 19, 2001, 03:57:04 PM
4nick

when you get that beasty going i neeed to see it

had 3 of them in my time but never got around 2 fitting a toyota engin {now i have the perfect engine 3 of them for it}

if you blow you'r engin up i have an 1800 dock turbo engin and box that would do wonders in the lil old ford

send me pics of it some time please Madrose@free.net.nz


long live the coat hanger
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 19, 2001, 04:14:43 PM
Sure thing dude, I have some of it being stripped, and me fitting the dumby block, but they're not digital.  I do plan to get some digitals next time I'm working on it.  Just spoke to my mate who has been working on it today, so there's some progress.  Slow going though, I'd never reccomend a non-bolt-in transplant for any one!!!

:splat:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 20, 2001, 09:19:54 AM
Hi all....

SlowGTST: sorry 4 the misunderstanding mate, I run a twin piston BOV...which like the factory one IS always open on free-revving (i.e: vacuum) ....it's just the 2nd piston that stops the air leaking in .....the point I was making was that they both close under load (on boost) at the same point, i.e: when the turbo spools up to do it's work, so there can be no adverse effects......maybe??;)

GTiGAV: Hi mate welcome 2 the thread.....I know that any electrical device saps power ultimately via the alternator....it's just that if you are running aircon anyway, might you not put it to a more horsepower-friendly use.........not that it would by any means be a FREE mod......just a clever idea perhaps.....

...does anyone here rate this thermo-wrap.....I can see that keeping the hot gases away from the engine bay is a good idea.... but I've heard it said that it also cooks the turbo nicely.....any opinions??????

4nick: Hi buddy.....sold that BOV yet????? :D :D :D

Cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 20, 2001, 09:53:54 AM
SlowGTST: ...just read that link you posted about refrigerated intake cooling.......B@!!@X  B@!!@X B@!!@X ....why dear God do I have to invent stuff 18 months after anyone else......:homer:

:headbutt: :headbutt:

....Grrrrrr........

....( at least no-one's stolen my programmable liquid crystal display licence plate idea yet hehehe....)

Cheers,

Jon.

GO THE FREE MOD THREAD!!!!

GO THE NEARLY FREE MOD THREAD!!!

GO THE UNAFFORDABLE CONCEPT THINK TANK!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Arven on September 20, 2001, 10:09:16 AM
Hey guys, i was just about to go and cut the #53, but Me bing a Dumbarse, how exactly do you get at the ECU?? Its under the carpet ha? so does that mean i have to undo allmost everything around it? cos it all joins up, and looks like i have to end up taking out my freakin Glove box!

Its that lump just under the passinger seat on the floor right? (i have an r32 by the way)

Cheers.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 20, 2001, 10:21:27 AM
Arven: Hi mate....the lump under the passenger carpet houses the catalytic converter in the exhaust.....just take a peek under your ride.........
....the ECU is behind the plastic kick panel ( the bit your missus scrapes her left shoe on ).....
......undo the nut and pull the panel away.....hey presto: the ECU.......
P.S: don't cut the red wire.......
Cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 20, 2001, 10:37:11 AM
Cut the yellow wire...no wait...the red wire.....

The ECU can be accessed by undoing the 3 kick panel screws, they are:

The one holding the anchor plug on the door jam,
The one closest to the seat pointing towards the outside of the car,
And the one screwed to the firewall/floorpan, that is at rightangles to the kick panel.
You may also need to undo the first screw/anchor of the door crash strip, so you can remove the kick panel neatly (as it wraps around the door jam).

After that you'll be able to see the back of the ECU.  The loom is clipped onto the ECU chasis, there are 3 clips either side of the loom clip, unclip them all and the release the wires.

The wire you are after is yellow-green with a silver trace (yes they all are yellow green, it's stupid I know).

After cutting the wire, wrap the lose ends with insolution tape so as to avoid it arcing.

This is a good time to do a ECU diag on the car as the 32 doesn't have the convenient grey wire setup the 33 has.  Let us know if you want a hand with that also.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 20, 2001, 10:51:57 AM
......well , that's what I meant to say, I just can't type as fast as 4nick........hehehe

cheers

Jon
P.S: It's the yellow wire with the green trace and silver spots, not the green and yellow wire with the silver trace......or was it the yellowwy green silvery wire with the purple pink spots and the orangey blue trace.............:D
Title: daaaa....
Post by: Arven on September 20, 2001, 01:12:58 PM
Ok, call me dumb, but you say Under the car?  its on the outside? or is it inside on the left most wall next to the door??   On my old CRX it was on the 45 Degree angle where you put yer feet under the glove box, is that what your trying to say????  So do i still needa bend back the carpet?  :P  or is it on the left wall of that bit, so just the plastic pannel on the left?  Ahh i dunno!

And yea! would be a hand if i could do the Hicas check! i bet somethings wrong with mine, the light flikkers when i turn on the car, and start it... its off when its running tho,  dunno if that matters...

Thanks for the info!....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 20, 2001, 01:58:33 PM
it sounds like ur hicas is running fine cause the light is meant to go on every time u start the car for a second or something, as long as it doesnt come on when ur driving then ur fine.

as for the ecu its not under the car, its beneath the plastic left hand side passenger kick panel, just undo the screws holding the plastic panel in then ul see it underneath, then undo the ecu from the brackets holding it together.

then find the right wire, #53 and cut it, then bye bye limiter.

why do people pay $200 when its soo soo easy to remove??????

u dont need to touch the carpet at all, thats just a bump to fit in the catalytic converter.

have we talked about the cat in this thread, i cant remember, bash the insides out if ur in good old new zealand cause we dont need it, better still cut the flanges off the cat and join together with a piece of pipe in between.

if laws prevent this in ur country, well too bad!haha naw u could get an aftermarket cat, they flow better than standard ones


Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Arven on September 20, 2001, 02:06:56 PM
Thanks Dave!

So how do i do the Hicas check anyways? I might as well do it if i have the unit out,  I remember reading somewhere how to do it, and it sounded really silly, like starting the car, driving it forward 10 meters, stopping, pumping the breaks 3 times, backing up another 10 meters, or something like that, then your in "test mode" or whatever its called.

Anyone know?

Thanks.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on September 20, 2001, 02:23:23 PM
Guys, about the HICAS testing.

If some of you guys are having problems getting into the test mode, or if your in there and the wheels aren't moving, you MIGHT be one of the lucky few to have a HICAS LOCK installed.

TOMEI make a HICAS lock that disables the HICAS, which appaerently is better for track work as it's more predictable around fast corners.

It disables the HICAS without sending any error codes etc.

I found this out the hard way.  Couldn't get in test mode, then found a HICAS lock (little black box) stuck to the underside of my HICAS computer under the rear parcel self.

Wierd little Jap add-ons......  Gezzzz....

Keep up the good work in this thread.

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 20, 2001, 09:44:13 PM
the engine ecu has nothing to do with the hicas ecu, thats underneath the parcel tray in the boot.

its quite hard to get into the hicas diagnostic mode but give it a go.

Dave

Procedure:

Switch ingition off, transmission in neutral or auto in Park.
Start engine
Very quickly (with a couple of seconds), turn the steering wheel left and right about 20 degrees from centre five times, and then pump the brakes five times, then press the brake pedal once more - this will enter diagnostic mode.
Drive forwards or backwards about 5 metres at a speed less than 10k/ph, this will enter full diagnostic mode.
The HICAS light in the instrument cluster will be flashing quickly (for normal) or will flash a code indicating any problems. Long flash = first digit, short flash = second digit. Diagnostics will return to normal after five minutes, or any speed over 10k/ph, or ingnition is turned off.

 HICAS 1990-1993 (seems OK for '89 as well)
1 HICAS solenoid right hand
2  HICAS solenoid left hand
3  Cut off valve
4  Power steering solinoid
5  Vehicle speed sensor
6  Steering angle sensor
7  Neutral position sensor
8  (Auto) Parking brake sensor, (Manual) Clutch sensor
9  (Auto) Inhibitor switch, (Manual) Neutral sensor

 

 HICAS 1994-1999
11 HICAS control unit
12  HICAS motor power supply not present
13  HICAS motor output not present
21  Vehicle speed sensor not present
22 Steering angle sensor not present
23 Steering angle sensor neutral or not present
24  Rear main sensor input not present
25 Rear sub sensor input not present
31 Parking brake sensor input not present
32 (Auto) Inhibititor switch input not present

(Manual) Neutral switch input not present
 
32 Engine speed signal not present
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 21, 2001, 09:12:43 AM
Evening all.......

Jay95R33:
Quote
you MIGHT be one of the lucky few to have a HICAS LOCK installed.


......funny old life isn't it.......just found myself really hoping to have LESS than the standard equipment on my Skyrine...:D

........very good point though Jay.... will have to go check the hicas box in the morning........although it's probably just my own inability to follow simple instructions that is stopping me from getting into diag. mode........

Arven: ...go rip that ECU out matey.....just ignore that lump under the carpet.......tell the missus it'a a shelf for her handbag.....

...Anyone out there know that removing the cat can make a noticeable difference to output????????

Cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 21, 2001, 09:35:16 AM
Tinduck (Cosworth)..... In NZ the Cat removal is performance mod # 1, usually on the way from the dealers back to the house.  I know you guys have to have it over there ('cos your such a smelly bunch), but I think you can get hi-flo ones that will make a huge difference to your rev range, generally you'll be able to access 5,000rpm (+) much easier.  The cat-less system is also very good as a cigarett lighter for those standing near the back of your car at Throttle Wide Open time!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 21, 2001, 09:48:50 AM
.........DAMMIT I'm exposed......(shouldn't have had those beers the other night and revealed the screenname hehehe....'specially to another Ford fan :D :D )

....dunno for sure mate, but I think I can get away with removing the cat, because it's an import, and a '93 model.....don't think they will bother come test time..........
........just wanted to know that the benefits outweighed the hassle........

cheers,
Jon.

(P.S: ...no-one seems to have copied my LCD licence plate idea yet......but just found out that Mercedes has blatantly stolen my light-sensitive polarised window glass idea for their latest sunroofs........B@ST4R05 !!! )
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 21, 2001, 10:09:51 AM
T,  yea, who wouldn't love those trick little MK1's, all that chrome and rounded roundy bits....mmmmm....rounded tail lights.....hey, I've got those with the R32, I'm begining to see a pattern developing.  I guess the next car'll have to be an impalla then!

Back to the cat thing, check online to see if anyone locally sells 'high-flow cat systems', as I know the have them in the US.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 21, 2001, 10:20:17 AM
.......hehehehehe........impala? I was thinking of a MK1 Opel manta actually......Hmmmmmm roundy roundy lights......

ANYWAY ...back to making Skylines go faster..............

Cheers,

Jon.

P.S: Since Renault now own Nissan, does that mean that all Nissans are completely $H!T aswell now ???? :D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 21, 2001, 10:56:34 AM
Yea good point, getting back to the free/cheap horsepower.

Are there any spare/unused ports in the airdam that you can funnel back to the engine bay or intake area?  Might be an easy way to get some cooler air-flow under the hood.

Another option for more grunt is boost.  It's common that knowledge that boost is the cheapest form of horsepower, given that the turbo can handle much more than the factory setting, why not crank an extra few pounds outta the beast?  Is the R33 adjustable, or do you need to fork out for a variable boost controller?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 21, 2001, 11:13:35 AM
HICAS testing I like it.

I also have another thing I think we have over looked in this thread (correct me if I'm wrong), I/C water spray. This was just discussed in a recent thread, and it reminded me about it.

I have been looking into doing this (as the others were talking about) with the rear window washer. The main problem with the other system is that you have it on a dash mounted switch which is either on or off. I am at the moment sourcing a pressure switch so that the system will turn on at a preset boost level. I have been looking at old magazines (Zoom turbo Special) where the have an indepth look at water "injection". In this article they have a pressure swithch they sourced from RS Components. This switch is triggered by 0.9 psi, but this can be increased by using a similar method to fooling the wastgate to upping boost.

Although different areas, some of the methods in this article could also be used in I/C waterspray just as easily.

Another method is actually running a boost line from the plenum via a one way valve to a pressurised water container (like a radiator overflow resivoir). Running this to a spray nozzle, the spray will only come on when the boost pressurises the container. This system can also be turned on and off with a solonoid.

Anyone have any other ideas/tips in this area?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 21, 2001, 11:18:35 AM
......yeah 4nick.....

....who's got pictures out there of good airbox/intake mods????

....as goes boost, I can surmise that about 10psi is ok, but you have to reduce the plug gap to 0.8mm to compensate......and as this only takes about the length of a good bruce willis film to accomplish on the R33, I'll wait 'til the weekend to post the results........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 21, 2001, 11:21:52 AM
The air intake will be real easy, as the bonnet acts as the top of the cold air box, the front and guard sides are also taken car off, all you'll need to do is add a plate behind the pod and down the engine side.  What my plan is, is to mess around with a few pieces of cardboard 'till I've got the shape right, then go to a pannel shop and get them to just weild the 2 pieces of pannel steel together for me, and there you have it!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 21, 2001, 11:23:51 AM
MFX: in regard to i/c water spray......have a look earlier on this thread....there's a link to a very good article on the subject.....it explains clearly why activating the spray by throttle position or even boost pressure is totally useless.....the cooling effect is too late.......you want the intercooler to ALREADY be cool before you plant the throttle..........

cheers

Jon.

GO THE BL@@DY COMPLICATED MOD THREAD!!!!!
Title: GUINESS BOOK OF RECORDS
Post by: DEVEUS on September 21, 2001, 01:20:47 PM
You guys should go for the guiness book of records for the worlds longest and most babbling forum thread ever!! :laugh: :laugh:

Theres some good points in it to but everytime we strike a good one the subject changes........:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

This ones up to 11 pages.

Do you guys know what the longest one has been?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 21, 2001, 03:21:18 PM
Like I was saying, boost, it's like free horse power!

http://www.autospeed.com/A_0028/P_1/article.html

Have squiz old son!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 21, 2001, 03:33:51 PM
Man this is like the site that keeps on giving....

http://www.autospeed.com/A_0009/page1.html

For those about to change their air feed.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 21, 2001, 10:43:22 PM
....nice one 4nick....two top links you posted there mate....
..I.m using that same pneumatic valve on mine, but using it to bleed pressure away from the line via a t-piece, rather than putting the valve inline as a restrictor......
.....which way do people think is best??

...good article on airbox mods also...trickier to do on turbo lumps though where the air flows Down through the filter, i.e: the new cold feed must go to the TOP of the airbox, unlike the EFi n/a motors mentioned...
......anyone got pictures of successful airbox mods to TURBO skyrines??

Cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 21, 2001, 10:48:06 PM
cold air box: 4nick, how about using aluminium or plastic sheeting instead of heavy steel?.....let us know how it goes.....
Cheers,
Jon.
Title: knock senser
Post by: rogang on September 22, 2001, 09:09:26 PM
Hey Tinduck ,hows it going over there??
Did you every get to the bottom of finding out about ya knock senser???
 
  Rog..............
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on September 22, 2001, 09:10:40 PM
bit quiet in here at the weekends eh.............
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 23, 2001, 09:21:00 AM
Rog:  Hi mate.....all fine here thanx....winter's coming...roll on 5 months of cold dense intake air and icy roads...hehehe

....I keep ignoring the knock sensor problem, but it doesn't go away.:) ....don't want 2 start taking bits off 'til I'm sure what they are......

...after reading everyones (as always) inspired input on this little thread, the plan for this weekend is:
1) remove spark plugs and reduce gap to 0.8mm.
2) try using bleed valve as a restriction in the wastegate pipe instead of a bleed off it...and see if I notice any difference...
3) start to plan a cold air feed.....either a box around a pod, or more likely, another feed into the factory airbox on the opposite side to the existing one.......
4) remember not to floor the throttle on sharp bends in rush hour traffic( apologies 2 oncoming vehicles) hehehe

....and yes, it does get bloody quiet at weekends...these guys must have social lives or something :D :D :D

Deveus: oi! we don't babble, we just think fast hehehe:)

cheers,
Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Cob@lt60 on September 24, 2001, 12:07:14 AM
Hi Guys,

I've been building my cold air intake/partition ..what im doing is using cardboard to get the shape right then i bought some heat resistant rubber sheet(about 1inch thick) and cut it out from the cardboard "template".. gotta work out a way to fasten it in.. although its fairly tight anyway.. just how we like em *wink*..

Got to find myself about 1mtr of piping to duct air from my bumper.. got any ideas.. need some thick stuff..

MARK.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 24, 2001, 12:16:47 AM
i used 4 inch plastic PVC drainpiping, worked really well. put a bellmouth at the end to maximise flow into it and place end behind the bumper in line with a vent/hole in the bumper to get max air in.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 24, 2001, 03:09:07 AM
Cobalt: hi mate....hope the mod is going well...can we have some pictures when ya finished???
.....u still using the factory airbox/filter or a pod??
....plastic drainpipe seems 2 be the way to go for a feed though..
( Hi Dave)

Cheers All,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 24, 2001, 10:36:10 AM
Cob@lt60: The PVC drain pipe Dave suggested works really well, as I have used it on a couple of cars.

Jon: Thanks for the reminder on the I/C waterspray (There have been so many good points in this thread it's hard to remember what was discussed).

I went and installed my I/C waterspray yesterday, and instead of using a pressure switch I just used a trottle switch (on the accelerator pedal), so that if I have a drag from the lights etc, the I/C is being sprayed as I keep the revs up.

A couple of problems I found setting this up:
I did the initial setup using the rear window pump, and found that as the sprayers were higher that the washer bottle they would drip constantly (and if let run their course would drain the washer bottle completely). I over came this by removing the washerbottle and remounting it under it's initial position behind the bumper, infront of the F/R wheel. I did this with a couple of brackets I made up and cut a hole through to the engine bay to refill the bottle.
This setup now seems to work ok but the sprayers are the small ones used in the garden but they do not spray a very fine mist. Does anyone have a tip on better ones to use?

I also finally got around to cutting wire #53 and resetting the computer. I have to say it is running so much better and I hit around 220 the other night (only to see if it worked:licklips:)

Jeff
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 24, 2001, 10:42:25 AM
...Hi all....

....I set aside 90 mins today to whip out my plugs and re-gap them ........( the place I bought the car from said they had replaced the plugs and coils under warranty )
....what do I find?? ...bloody cheap Champion CS7YC standard copper plugs gapped to 0.7mm where the NGK platinums used to be......sitting under the same old dirty half dozen coils.........
........the barstewards told me they had replaced the plugs with race plugs, and put a new set of coils in........

NOT HAPPY !!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

........and I thought I had finally found a car dealer that appreciated that good service gets repeat business, and word-of-mouth recommendation, worth more than any advertising....
but not now........ALL USED CAR DEALERS ARE SHORT-SIGHTED SMALL-MINDED IMBECILES !!!!!!
*this is my own personal view, and not necessarily that of the forum as a whole.

..........anyway, how's YOUR day going??

cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 24, 2001, 11:08:19 AM
yeah car dealers are dicks, my mate bought a Toyota Levin 20 valve and they said when he bought the car that they had just replaced the timing belt (car had just done 100k) so that was sweet.

one day he just wanted to make sure cause was hearing all these stories about timing belts breaking and heaps of damage, so he pulled the cover off and IT WAS THE ORIGINAL TOYOTA BELT! even worse, it already had a nick out of it and looked pretty tired!

car dealers suck!

anyway, u can always use pumps and sprayers from a hydroponic/garden place, i reckon they work better than just using the back sprayer. the sprayers dont drip either and have higher pressure/flow.

could trigger it with intercooler temp so u can always have the intercooler at the best temperature possible, the lowest temp!

throttle trigger wouldnt be too bad, just u could be cruising slow as downtown and the intercooler air would have less air flow to it so be hotter, then if u wanted to drag someone off and was revving it at the lights or somewhere, the sprayer would work of course but wouldnt have enough time to get intercooler temps down.

if u automatically have the intercooler temperatures monitored then when ur going at 100+kph the i/c sprayer wont operate but when ur cruising or something, it will, keeping i/c temperatures to a minimum.

just my 2 cents

Dave
Title: the free stuff
Post by: RATLTD on September 24, 2001, 11:11:13 AM
hey Tinduck,
can you do another summary of the free stuff that you have found on this thread. Thanks


I was born in Stoke. (Swallowcroft I think this was the street or area)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 24, 2001, 11:49:08 AM
Dave: using an intercooler temp sensor to trigger the spray: surely this has got to be the best idea so far......anyone out there done it ???
....by the way, are chargecoolers (water to air intercoolers) popular mods down under.?....they seem to be a good choice round these parts......never seen one on a skyrine though :D
.....basically a water jacket round the standard under-arch 'cooler, with cold water fed by an electric pump from a front mount radiator.......good hp gains on RS turbos etc.....

RATLTD: Eh Up Stokey :D :D .....how are ya matey??...another summary was coming tonight....but since finding the wrong plugs/ old coils/ barsteward car dealers situation, I will have to wait a day or 2.....seems that the little we know about these cars is ten times what the idiots that sold them know.....
.......the only thing I was sure of, is that cutting wire 53 works, but now some of our members are hinting at problems there too ( on another thread )....
....so wait awhile for the definitive guide...........

cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 24, 2001, 12:15:46 PM
there are some good temperature displays u can get that can be set to trigger a relay when temperature reaches a certain temp. eg. pump for sprayer. will turn off when temperature goes below that again.


that idea about the water jacket around the intercooler would work, hp isnt always everything tho cause i reckon it would add decent weight onto the car. really depends what the car is used for i guess.

rs turbos the old ones (early 90's) already have a water/air system, they dont use the normal air/air intercooling system anyway so not like they are modifying the existing system to water/air, cause they come out standard with it.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 24, 2001, 12:20:47 PM
H Dave: get that sprayer built then mate:D

.......( RS turbos round these parts are 1.6 ford escorts......I take it it means something else down under..:confused: )

cheers dude

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 24, 2001, 12:30:34 PM
yeah thought u meant Subaru Legacy RS haha
thats what we call RS normally

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Cob@lt60 on September 24, 2001, 01:15:54 PM
Hi guys,

Yeah ill take some pics of it.. just got to find out what bends and stuff i need for my ducting.. im using a pod filter (came with the car).

Just hope the piping doesnt interfear with the standard intercooler airflow from the bumper.. have to cheack that out when i find out the bends.

MARK.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 24, 2001, 01:37:58 PM
OK guys, i know, i should post my pics before i blab about my intake mod but i haven't got any pics yet.  I will take some tonight OK!

2.5" PVC hose with a steel wind in it.  500mm long fed from front bar inlet (passenger side) up under head light through where factory plastic elbow bend was - take that out - into the factory airbox with a K+N pad filter.  Use motor scooter inner tube to stretch over airbox inlet and PVC pipe to seal.

Yes works very well at low cost!!!!!!!!!!!

I have thought about submerging my whole intercooler into a custom stainless tank full of icy water which would get pumped from a resivoir in the boot or something.  Even better is to rig it up to the airconditioning system to get continuous cold water feed.  War Motorsport had a small amount of trialling with this but i haven't heard any more.

Any ideas????????

Tinduck must have some thoughts??????:D :D
Title: another idea..........
Post by: rogang on September 24, 2001, 09:57:45 PM
Hey guys, ever thought of cooling the fuel going through the fuel rails??????
 Back in the old days when we had a drag strip here, I did a bit of drag racing and we used to have a fuel cooler and it worked. The evidence was on the time cards..............
  Just a thought............

                 cheers Rog.........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 25, 2001, 06:28:13 AM
Hi Rog: cool fuel?? how? what? why?:confused: ........gimme the science bit.....how's it work???

Deveus: I think chargecooling is much more effective than water spray....taking heat from the intercooler constantly.....but yes, it is a much heavier system, adding the weight of the water and an extra radiator.....but then I s'pose we aint too bothered about that....we're hardly driving stripped out drag cars here :)
.......only downside I can see is the bl@@dy cost......

PLUG UPDATE: I looked into those copper plugs I found fitted yesterday....and they are if fact race specials ( C57YC ) ...so I'm a bit less miffed now.....

cheers all,  Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 25, 2001, 06:29:40 AM
.....I'm on page 13 and all alone......I'M SCARED.......:eek:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 25, 2001, 08:18:59 AM
Intercooler -> Read on another autosport site (maybe http://www.autospeed.com or somewhere else, I can't remember) that water cooling is perferable and more effective for street performance, but because air/air cooling is cheaper to produce, and better for track ("I want it to look like the one I saw on the track" = Demand).  So air/air is much more common.  Sounds like a good waterspary system might work around that, go Dave! :king:

Air -> Check the autospeed site for pics of PVC intake mod, personally I'd think Cob@lt60 has got it sussed with a pod (heavy breather), and some cold feed.

Fuel -> Quite excited by that concept, but hell, have we coooled everything yet?!?!?!? :rolleyes:  Perhaps I should just strap a small engine on to my deep freeze! :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 25, 2001, 08:49:04 AM
4Nick: Hi buddy.....re; wire 53: are you 110% sure it's safe and hassle free now??

cheers,
Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 25, 2001, 08:53:26 AM
Going up to the hospital in a sec, I'll do a diag as I go.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 25, 2001, 09:01:01 AM
.........if ya get pulled for speeding, tell 'em it's research for an important global project.....:D :D

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 25, 2001, 01:10:16 PM
At least he wouldn't be a liar.

Its global and its important to us and its research!

I have done wire # 53 and the only side effect i came across was it cuts my power at varying speeds but only after you pass the 180 mark.  Like today i got to about 220 approx and i had no engine for about 5-10 seconds?????

Very scary - i don't know what caused it.  It just went dead for a second then came back to life????????? :idea:

Yes i have done ECU diagnostics and came up with 55! - all OK!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 25, 2001, 02:32:19 PM
Time for a Link!

Didn't have a chance to try to fly, was on the phone all the way......will try l8r.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 25, 2001, 02:39:49 PM
Where abouts do you usually hide 4nick8?????

Do you live in Morrinsville?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 25, 2001, 02:45:34 PM
Nah, got an appartment on Vic St opposite Armadillo's.  Usually check'n the traffic late nights (Fri and Sat), as there is almost always a Mazdabator in desperate need of a good egg'n!! :D

Whuddya do for a crust man, 'cos I see ya on the street a bit, and then almost straight after your online?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 25, 2001, 03:39:07 PM
Work for SKF Bearings in Lake Road, Frankton.

It pays the Bills!

You might see me again at 5 when i leave for home - i'll come past like an idiot - maybe:dfinger: :D

I usually do a post or something then go straight to lunch for an hour then get back on posting again!  The joys of work!

:D

What do you do????????????
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 25, 2001, 03:44:40 PM
This must be that "....and the most rambl'n thread" thing they were talk'n about a few pages back.....

I'm a network engineer (computer stuff), but not the typical annoying computer geek :devil:  I work for Datacom in Rostrevor St (the big super ugly gold building).  The GTS-4 is blue, unpolished rims (like yours).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 26, 2001, 09:55:01 AM
I cut #53 the other day and promptly did a 220kph "test run". No side effects what-so-ever.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 26, 2001, 10:06:52 AM
Now try for 0 km/h or redline which ever comes first!:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 26, 2001, 10:30:39 AM
Still to try my top end out...... maybe in the weekend.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 26, 2001, 10:48:56 AM
.....GO DO IT NOW 4NICK.....GO ...GO ....GO .....GO .....

Jeff: ..good on ya buddy.....guess it's a totally safe and proven mod then...( I've had no probs) .......

cheers,
Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 26, 2001, 10:53:06 AM
Deveus: Hi mate...maybe that power cut you're getting at various speeds is the wire shorting out....did you tape the ends when you cut it???

....just a thought....

cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 26, 2001, 10:53:47 AM
Just parted with $1300 squid for some new knees.  Drop it off tomorrow, don't know if I can be without my baby for a day.  Soooo hard parting with that sort of coin, but it was nessesary.  I guess this has become the far from free forum for me.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 26, 2001, 11:00:31 AM
Jon,

Yea i did insulate both ends with insulation tape.

It's got me screwed.  Like i'll be driving along at 160 accelerating get to 200 odd and slow for a corner then when i put my foot to the carpet again to bring the speed back up it just dies like no fuel, ignition etc....

I just let it go back to idle for a second or 5 then reapply the gas and sweet as?:confused:

Very confusing - Any other ideas

I might have to just rejoin it if the worst comes to the worst:(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 26, 2001, 11:34:25 AM
Dev: what boost ya running mate??

4nick: knees?? ...gotta be a local expression..:confused: ...please explain to the southern hemisphericlally challenged.....

P.S: ...I removed the bleed valve, regapped to 0.8mm, now it runs sweet.....can I safely replace the bleed valve and up the boost to 10 psi without extra fuelling/ map mods....

cheers,


Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 26, 2001, 11:37:33 AM
Should be fine to go 12 without mods, just reset the ECU.  People mock the learning ECU's but the forget how cool that 'mod and remap' thing is!

Knees, stop the bumps getting to the body.  Dropped it 1.5 inches too (still just a work car).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 26, 2001, 11:51:34 AM
......yeah you love it really....1300 spent on just a daily hack:)

....do ya reckon this thread is actually making anyone think about new and different ( cheap) mods,or are we just pissin' in the wind against the old skool of " buy expensive jap controllers"........

......sorry to ramble on, but hey, I'm English :D :D :D

GO THE FREE ( AND ONE DAY THERE'LL BE A DEFINITIVE LIST ) MOD THREAD !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 26, 2001, 11:58:36 AM
Jon,

About 12.5 PSI

Some days i've had it at 13 PSI and other days just around 11 PSI

i'm running 0.8mm plug gap, new plugs and a brass tap bleed valve ( in car now )

Some times it runs mint at 13 and others it backfires and carries on and seems to have less power than at 12 or 11??

Any ideas

I was told that bleed valves don't hold boost very well and you really need an electronic solenoid?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 26, 2001, 12:08:27 PM
Hi dev: it's that rambling thread again hehehe.....

...by solenoid, do you mean just an on/ off switch to the bleed valve, or a computer controlled variable boost.......

....how exactly have you plumbed in your bleed valve mate? ......some use the valve as a restriction to the wastegate, ( inline ) and some swear by using a T- piece to bleed pressure AWAY from the actuator..........

ideas??

cheers as ever,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 26, 2001, 12:23:52 PM
would this thread just DIE ALREADY? :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 26, 2001, 12:37:51 PM
.......now that's just being rude young man...........

:D :D :D




:dfinger:
cheers,
Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on September 26, 2001, 01:46:41 PM
TINDUCK. Dont forget that you've got an R33 GTS25t. They run a lot less boost than an R32GTS-t.

12psi is very safe with an R32.

I dont know it if is for an R33.

Er.. Deveus, check your fuel pressure. Er.. and try out a pressure regulator with a small bleed after it.

R32's have a line running from the turbo outlet to the wastegate actuator. Bleeding air from that line changes the boost. There is no ECU boost solenoid.

R33's I believe have a line running from the manifold to the wastegate actuator. There is an ECU controlled bleed solenoid

I think Deveus means an electronic boost controller when he says boost solenoid, where bleed is varied byt the controller to get the desired boost level and boost response..?? hmmm
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 26, 2001, 01:49:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by SlowGTS-t
TINDUCK. Dont forget that you've got an R33 GTS25t. They run a lot less boost than an R32GTS-t.

12psi is very safe with an R32.

I dont know it if is for an R33.

Er.. Deveus, check your fuel pressure. Er.. and try out that Audi Boost Control for a cheap boost control system that works.


whats stock boost on an r32 gtst?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 26, 2001, 02:26:17 PM
I have an R32 GTS-t

Factory boost is around 9 PSI i think

some say 8 some say 10.

I have a bleed off the line to atmosphere.  Maybe the Inline method is the go.  6 Months ago i had 50PSI of fuel pressure under boost (std boost) on the dyno.

Does the inline restriction build pressure back toward the turbo?

Has the build up of pressure got somewhere to go?

I mean boost controller - electronic, run off an aftermarket ecu

I wonder whether or not the inline method would hold boost for longer and be more accurate?



:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on September 26, 2001, 03:51:38 PM
What did you car pull on the dyno Deveus?

Btw, my stock GTS-t (R32) with big bore and K&N ran 11psi (0.75 bar)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 27, 2001, 08:40:30 AM
Before i did any mods Tokboy my car pulled 124.5hp at the rear wheels.  This is inline with the std specs.

I think it will have a considerable lot more now though with higher boost, better exhaust, air intake mod, manual gearbox etc

If i turn my tap off i seem to get about the same as you, around .75 bar.  Maybe std boost with big bore and k+n goes from 8/9/10 PSI to about 11PSI?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on September 27, 2001, 09:09:07 AM
which dyno?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 27, 2001, 10:42:24 AM
When i had some coil packs replaced Speedwell in Hamilton did it.  Why's that? :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: equinoz on September 27, 2001, 02:42:03 PM
Geez, it took me an hour an a half to read this thread from page 4 til here :eek: :eek: :eek:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 27, 2001, 07:05:09 PM
This thread will never die!!!!!!!

For interest sake my R33 GTS-T ran 7psi stock and I had just peaking at 10.5/11 and it was just starting to ping at the top of 2nd and 3rd due to lack of fuel.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: equinoz on September 27, 2001, 11:26:08 PM
I'm running 13 psi and i got no pinging so I guess you better check your timing etc
Title: thats bad
Post by: V8eta on September 27, 2001, 11:32:57 PM
On a warm day i can run 14psi, on a cold night with some good fuel i can run 16-17psi.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 28, 2001, 05:34:11 AM
Hi all....back after being sick as a dog for 2 days.......

V8eta: Hi buddy: 17psi? standard chip/ fuelling? what mods you got mate??

equinoz: same question, what mods mate...??

MFX: Hi...(it will die, just not yet......:D ).......not 'til I get a definitive guide sorted for:
a) free mods
b) nearly free mods
c) save-yer-ass-off-for-months mods
......for non-turbo,R32 turbo and R33 turbo motors.......

(not too much of a challenge??????:D :D )

cheers as ever all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 28, 2001, 07:30:46 AM
Well said Jon!!!!!!!

"THE INFINITE THREAD OF THE MILLENIUM"
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 28, 2001, 08:54:12 AM
Yea, it's heaps harder keeping track of a milllion threads dealing with an array of different mods, when we can all just add and update this one until we have the ultimo le grande super A spec mod summary.  This can then be added to the SDU website so everyone can view it around the world!!!!;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 28, 2001, 09:44:43 AM
......aww, you guys,......:o

....s'pose this ultimately will need a chart,maybe with hyperlinks to photos and easy instructions, where you just pick your motor, press Free/Almost Free/Rolling in cash.....

{wakes up}....hang on....I've not got a bl@@dy clue how to.......

....help.....

Cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on September 28, 2001, 09:47:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
......aww, you guys,......:o

....s'pose this ultimately will need a chart,maybe with hyperlinks to photos and easy instructions, where you just pick your motor, press Free/Almost Free/Rolling in cash.....

{wakes up}....hang on....I've not got a bl@@dy clue how to.......

....help.....

Cheers,

Jon.


thats actually a good idea - i might get started on something very similar - but for that id need a lot of input and guaranteed accurate information :)

nevermind ill just cut n paste marioGTR's site :D hehehe
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 28, 2001, 10:15:54 AM
Quote
I'm running 13 psi and i got no pinging so I guess you better check your timing etc


equinoz : What were you running standard (as not all boost gauges read the same ie. accuratly).

That is a good point though. What boost are you guys running, stock and with just a basic boost up?

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 28, 2001, 10:25:52 AM
Well, got the car back from the workshop, nice'n'low now.  Took it for a blat to check the ride, decided to test the speed limiter at the same time (yes finally), a white knuckle moment as I ran well clear of the 180 mark....yay for me! :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 28, 2001, 10:38:33 AM
4nick: Cool!
Just a point with the speed limiter again. I don't know about the R32 but the first time I tested mine out, I thought I didn't have it 'cause I got to about 190 wnd no cut. It wasn't until later I was trying to go faster and I hit it at about 192.

But again what boost are people running?:)

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 28, 2001, 10:40:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MFX_R33
But again what boost are people running?:)


Standard....boring aye?  Yea, next mod is VBC.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 28, 2001, 11:00:15 AM
Quote
white knuckle moment as I ran well clear of the 180 mark....yay for me!


........eventually!!!!!!!!!!   hehehe....well done buddy..........

.....so are we all confident that this mod at least is:
a) free
b) effective
c) safe               ???????

....if so, it's gotta go straight in at number one......

cheers all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 28, 2001, 11:11:28 AM
You know i still have my problem Jon:(

I am running about 12.5PSI but if i up the boost i feel i loose power - can this be leaning?

Jon what do you do anyway - Youa re a very upfront poster from way back?:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 28, 2001, 11:12:20 AM
...not too sure about safe, free yea, but safe no.  I'd bet there are few of us running the correct series tread for 200 passes.  Having your tire leave you at 200 odd would probably turn my cabin into the a blender jar full of tomatoes....
:splat:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 28, 2001, 11:31:49 AM
....fair point 4nick......guess you can slip in the shower and die too though........OK safe for the motor then I suppose ...;)

.....Dev: ....me? I know noooooothing.........I just ask too many questions hehehe...

....as for boost...the old R33 seems to be fine at standard, 6/7psi....but if I take it up to 10psi, it is coooool at lower revs, but holds back at over 4000ish....sounds the same as you.....think it might be the ecu......dunno though....several peeps here say 10psi is fine for standard fuelling on the R33.......guess I'll just have to ask more questions...........

cheers all,

Jon.

.....what do I do? in what respect?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ethan_R33 on September 28, 2001, 12:23:30 PM
Hi Guys,
Im very new here and also new to the skyline arena. I have just got an R33 gts-t and have a few little problems with misfiring. Now im pretty sure i have narrowed it down to an electrical fault, either the standard computer is buggered or there is some corrosion happening with some of the wires, namely the injector wires.
But since this is a "free HP" thread i thought that maybe i could add a little bit to that.
Sometimes the connections can be fairly worn or corroded as in my case, and this will cause a voltage drop. Therefore any voltage drop to the computer would also result in a drop after. Hence you do not get the the full amount of voltage to the injectors or spark plugs resulting in a loss of horse power.
Now if i am wrong just tell me, because im no expert, just trying to give you guys a new idea in this thread.

Andrew

ps, anyone who could help me with the misfiring would be great!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on September 28, 2001, 12:44:34 PM
Bloody oath! Misfiring and GTS25ts seem to be joined at the hip. $3240 cured mine, but I had only just bought it, which meant mr car yard man had to open his wallet. Does anyone have a GTS25t which does not misfire, and has never misfired????? :(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: equinoz on September 28, 2001, 01:01:36 PM
Running 13 psi, with HKS Pod Filter, Dragsports Variable Boost Controller, HKS Super Dragger Exhaust, HKS seq BOV. If I set the boost to 15 psi, do you guys think it will be safe? Speed_R in Auckland, NZ was running 18 psi on his RB20DET (that's what he told me), with standard turbo and link ECU.
Title: bye bye limiter
Post by: V8eta on September 28, 2001, 01:04:39 PM
I have had the wire cut for ages now and have still not had the chance to use it. Yeah on the subject of tires, minimum is H series which are rated to 210kph.
I recommend a min of V rated tires if ya going to be going quick. V=240.
On the boost thing does anyone know how to get an auto with a bleed valve to hold boost instead of it dropping back to the factory setting.
Go the free horsepower thread.:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on September 28, 2001, 02:33:58 PM
V8eta,

The tyre rating h=210 is for a continuous period of 12 hours at that speed before the tyre gives up.  same for v rated at 240.  I don't think anyone will be driving anywhere in the world at 210 for 12 hours.

A common problem with misfiring in the R32's anyway is coil packs.  They misfire big time when the coils have died or are dying.  I replaced 5 of 6 at $236 ea - $1180 - no more misfire!

:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 28, 2001, 03:30:18 PM
HOW MUCH!?!?!??!??  :eek:  SHEEEEEIT!  Here's hope'n mine is fine at boost.  D, must catch up and go for a ride at some stage.  Givus a wave if your in town tonight and I'm on my deck (probably L8).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 28, 2001, 07:34:34 PM
Ethan:- I think moondog is onto the problem. I also had a missing problem whenever I tried to take it over 5 grand.I replaced the coil packs and that fixed it.
Cheapest way to do it, is to buy 1 coil pack and systematically swap them. When the problem goes away you know you have fixed it, if the problem gets worse you know the coil pack you bought is stuffed.

Equinoz:- That boost sounds heaps high, and NO don't take boost over 1 bar with the standard turbo as the ceramic wheels have a tendancy to come off.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on September 28, 2001, 08:58:54 PM
Damn Nissan electronics, eh? :rolleyes: Well mine's no longer missing (and it bloody well it shouldn't be); it's just been a bit of a worry to see so many threads over the last 2-3 months about horrible misfires in GTS25ts :( :confused:
Title: free horses
Post by: Wil25t on September 29, 2001, 03:38:09 AM
Didnt see anyone mention cleaning the sludge out of ur intake piping and manifold.  I seen it on old posts.  I had it done and it does make a difference, revs more freely like getting a high flowing airfilter.  
Just check it out, try taking off ur airfilter with afm and stick ur fingers down the air intake pipe and wipe around.
When i did it i had greasy black stuff come off, just imagine how much of it is further in the metal piping goin to ur intake manifold.
its alot of labour but its free if u do it urself.

Just try to remember how to put it all back together when ur done :eek:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GT-R Ben on September 29, 2001, 05:07:03 AM
I have some weird stuff going on with my car at the moment, and I wonder if anyone has had the same problem before.

It only does it sometimes and I am just crusing at low revs... my car drops a cylinder and starts sounding like a WRX..

I am sure it is either a plug or coil, but it is strange how when you get the revs up to around 4k under load it comes right. Or if you turn the car off and then on it seems right again... very off and on problem..

Last time it happened long enough for me to pull the plugs off the coils. I would pull them one at a time till it dropped 2 cylinders or stayed the same. So I could work out which cylinder was dropping. 3rd one I think. So I will change the coils/plugs around until I find the problem...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 29, 2001, 06:13:53 AM
OH MY GOD...how many questions???.....and I thought I was bad........:eek: :eek: :eek:

Ethan: Hi buddy and welcome to the thread.......from experience,I found the best way to cure a misfire ( 'cause they all do it :D ) is to start a thread in the Maintenance section....there's heaps of helpful dudes around here and someone'll sort it for ya.....good luck.
There's no point trying to mod a car that's got problems...so let's assume that we're starting with a stock motor that's producing a reasonable output....loose and corroded wiring is no basis for building your beast......

Wil25: Another good point....pipes full of crap are not going to help flow anything....this also applies to the coolant system and the engine oil.....flush regularly, and keep it clean....again just common-sense maintenance to get the car to a point where you can start IMPROVING things......cheers buddy.

Equinoz: too much boost for the R33 apparently....OK for the R32 though.....two very different setups...

.....as for tyre ratings....Deveus said it all......the heat generated in a tyre at sustained high speeds is immense..........worlds apart from a quick blast to "check the limiter"...hehehe

....Go fast, go safe, GO THE FREE MOD THREAD !!!!!!!

CHEERS ALL,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on September 29, 2001, 07:22:04 AM
T, good to hear you're better. I was thinking about the boost-ability of the RB20 vs the 25, and thinking, that surely an easy way to compensate for the compression difference across the generation of motors, would be with metal head gaskets.  If you grabbed a good 2mm one (oh. sorry old chap, a 1 eithth ;)  ) you should be able to cheaply lower compression allowing for greater boost.

Anyho, that's my 'almost free horspower' addition for the day.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 29, 2001, 09:23:03 AM
Quote
If you grabbed a good 2mm one (oh. sorry old chap, a 1 eithth  )

hehehehehehe:D :D :D ....Hi buddy........
.......good plan, but is it not the turbo that goes splat before the pistons ......anyone ??    
......anyway, wish me luck: I'm going back to read this whole thread from the start........to see if I've learned anything yet.:laugh: .......
......If I'm gone for more than 2 days, can someone come and rescue me? (should be around page 13):D :D :D

.....the ultimate guide is in it's formative stages.........

CHEERS Y'ALL

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 29, 2001, 09:38:46 AM
Quote
2mm one (oh. sorry old chap, a 1 eithth


..........nearer 1/16th methinks what?.........5/64ths-ish..:laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ethan_R33 on September 29, 2001, 10:43:27 AM
Hey thanks guys,
yeah a stuffed coil would definitely fit the equation. Is there any way i can check the coils????
And thanks too Wil25, i never thought of cleaning out the inlet manifold.

Tinduck racing: is there any more common sense things u reckon i could do to get it running at premium performance?

Andrew
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: żżżżżż31 on September 29, 2001, 12:04:40 PM
hey i got an RB20DET and my car was running on 5 cylinders for the past week and just today i got the new coil...

the best way i found it to get the car running when it missing and then start at one end a pull out the power cable to each coil, one at a time until you DONT hear a change in your engine....the ones that are ok are the ones that make you engine go down to 4 cylinders and sound worse.....if that makes sense.....and the one you ull out nd there is no change is the coil that is stuffed.....also yo may like ot try replacing the one you have found to be faulty and swap itwith one of the other ones to see if its the coil or something to do with your injectors.....thats what i have doen and i got my car back firing on all 6 and goes SWEET.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 29, 2001, 12:15:34 PM
Andrew: as MFX said, borrow/blag/buy a new coil, and swap them one at a time 'til you find the duff one.........if problem persists, consult the maintenance threads and just ask.....
....hope ya get sorted buddy, then come back here for some mods.....

V8eta: Hi mate.....when you say boost drops off on the auto, can you describe in more detail.......cheers

ENOUGH ABOUT COILS ALREADY !!!!!!!!!!:splat:
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Cheers all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 30, 2001, 10:36:29 AM
...Right, here goes nothing.......
...the first ( and VERY rough) draft of THE DEFINITIVE GUIDE TO LOW COST SKYLINE TUNING..........
(based on the RB25DET at the moment....more to follow)

FREE MODS

1) remove the speed limiter ( wire #53 )
2) do diagnostics to ensure all is well
3) reset the ECU
4) clean out all intake pipes etc
5) re-gap plugs to 0.8mm

CHEAP MODS

1) replace all filters,flush out engine, and use a good oil
2) use plastic pipe to feed more cold air to airbox
3) install a bleed valve to raise boost to 10psi (more on R32)

BIGGER MODS

1) free-flowing exhaust
2) cat replacement pipe
3) pod filter in cold air box
4) water spray on intercooler
5) FMIC or chargecooler

.....that's it so far guys.......
.....if ya think I'm talkin' crap, please feel free to say so.....
.....any input gratefully appreciated...

......also I need more ideas on:
intake cooling
chargecooling
carbon canister removal
fuel regulator mods

.....and anything else mod-related...........

Cheers folks...

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SATO GTS on September 30, 2001, 11:55:49 AM
żżżżżż31

do you ever go up to newcastle for a cruise or do u stay in gosford and sydney??



ps how da fuk did u get the question marks upsidedown
     in you name??


L8R m8
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: żżżżżż31 on October 01, 2001, 01:04:43 AM
hey Sato GTS....and for everyone else wanting to know...
hold the left alt...then press 168 on the number pad at the end of the keyboard and then release the alt button and hey presto you got one of these...ż....ż...żżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżżż

anyways so yeh thats how its done

Na i havn't as of yet cruise up to newcastle but thought about cruising up there a few weeks ago but it just never happened....been busy with HSC and all......but i will some time..you ever come down to the coast  ?ż?

Anothe little mod you can all try.....i cleaned out my connection from the regulator and i have noticed a slight raise in top end power....may just be me...but someone else try oit and see what happens...let me know whoever tries it.....it could eb a load of crap but hey...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GT-R Ben on October 01, 2001, 03:48:04 AM
şżş
  ~

Another free mod : You can bend your actuator to give a bit more boost. I have also heard of hitting the fuel actuator, but not sure on that one, and how good it is..

Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 01, 2001, 05:11:45 AM
Quote
.....i cleaned out my connection from the regulator

....żżżżżż31....what? where? how?...please explain more for the intellectually challenged (me) :confused:

Ben: Hi buddy...bending the rod...basically keeps the wastegate more closed.....does it work? have you done it? does it do anything that a bleed valve doesn't?

...anyone know more about hitting/squeezing the fuel regulator.....other than just rumours??

cheers 4 the ideas....tell me more.....

Jon.
Title: bending actuator
Post by: F-ZerO on October 01, 2001, 06:38:59 AM
hey fellas , nice thread!!
i had a ta22 celica with a 3tg inj/ turbo that we threw together and we bent the actuator arm to bring the boost up to 10 pound until i put an air bleed on it and wound her up to 14! it did the job :evil: and surprised quite a few 5litre boys!!:dfinger: :laugh:
not sure wether it has advantages over air bleed , maybe it would hold boost better???
my 2 cents :mexican:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 01, 2001, 11:22:12 AM
Quote
maybe it would hold boost better???


..........maybe indeed.....cheers mate.........anyone else got thoughts???

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 01, 2001, 02:03:38 PM
Tinduck,

Check out the thread about Charge Cooling - One of your personal favourites!

A bit further up on the performance section............:D

Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on October 01, 2001, 02:42:08 PM
I will hopefully be trying to alter the fuel pressure, in the next couple of weeks (when I get my front mount). I definitley post the results.

Another thing, not exactly a power mod but it could make things alot easier. Does anyone have a copy of the fuses listed in English?

PLEEAASSEEE!! I am so tired of pulling out every fuse each time I blow one.:splat: :splat: :splat: :splat:

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on October 01, 2001, 02:47:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MFX_R33
I will hopefully be trying to alter the fuel pressure, in the next couple of weeks (when I get my front mount). I definitley post the results.

Another thing, not exactly a power mod but it could make things alot easier. Does anyone have a copy of the fuses listed in English?

PLEEAASSEEE!! I am so tired of pulling out every fuse each time I blow one.:splat: :splat: :splat: :splat:

Jeff.


i feel your pain! i ended up finding a riend with a TX3 Turbo 4wd , and writing down his fuse pattern, turns out to be exactly the same in my familia..
(duh)


but skylines dont have any aussie cousins :(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on October 01, 2001, 02:54:12 PM
I have a mate who got a copy for his Silvia so I am hoping someone has a copy for the skyline too.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 01, 2001, 03:56:46 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MFX_R33
I have a mate who got a copy for his Silvia so I am hoping someone has a copy for the skyline too.


Jeff, keep us posted, the random fuse thing pisses me off too!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Emre on October 01, 2001, 08:57:38 PM
as we know upping the boost slightly is a pretty good for xtra hp and a bleed valve is the easiest and cheapest way to go around it...
my question is that, where is the best place to tap into it..?
before or after the selenoid...? or simply the hose with the yellow ring or the other one...?

cheers...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 02, 2001, 05:56:13 AM
Deveus: cheers buddy :laugh: :laugh: ...I'll have a look.........oops now it's further DOWN :D

Jeff: Fuses buddy..............
Ok, starting from top left to bottom left then top right to bottom right

(left)

L1. Rear Wiper
L2. ABS
L3. Starter
L4. Room lamp (interior light)
L5. Stop light
L6. blank
L7. no idea
L8. engine control
L9. hazzard lights
L10. fog lights
L11. turn signals (indicator)
L12. Meter
L13. dunno

(right)

R1. Shift lock
R2. Auto trans controller
R3. Air conditioning
R4. Engine control
R5. Air bag
R6. Blank
R7. Blower motor (fans)
R8. ditto
R9. Audio (stereo)
R10. Cigarette lighter
R11. Front Wipers
R12. Mirror control (electric mirrors)
R13. Rear defroster

................dunno where I found this or how accurate it is....hope it helps though............

Emre: good question...and seemingly many answers...if ya find the best one please tell us!!!

Inlet-----X------------------Actuator
 ...................!
 ...................!
 ...................!________Factory
 ............................X      Solenoid
..........Return______X___!

Some use the valve as a restriction between the inlet pipe and the actuator.(X)
Some use a T-piece at the same point and bleed pressure off.
Some use 2 T-pieces and bleed from just before the solenoid and back to the return.(XX)
Some just replace the solenoid with the bleed valve....

....would love to hear which method y'all prefer.....

Cheers all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on October 02, 2001, 10:40:24 AM
Thanks for that Jon (fuses). Actually put another post up for some help and I was directed to a couple of sites with copies of the fuses and they match yours.

Jeff.:D :D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 02, 2001, 11:05:40 AM
Jeff: no problem buddy.

P.S: Can anyone understand my boost pipe diagram? Sorry it's a bit crap.....just ignore the full stops..............................

cheers,

Jon.

GO THE FREE MOD THREAD !!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: KiNGgTS25t on October 02, 2001, 01:46:53 PM
one thing to say

carbon canister removal


?!!? any one done it?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 02, 2001, 03:06:34 PM
What benefits does that have Kinggts25?

If you find out more i will be interested to know. :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on October 02, 2001, 03:51:08 PM
Did stuff all on my GTs-t
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 02, 2001, 07:16:49 PM
......that's what I thought it would do, SlowGTSt.....

......it'd leave more room for cold air ducts/FMIC piping though....

......but what about the pipe to it marked " fuel tank " ? Surely it's a breather, and not to be blocked off or left to spill fumes into the engine bay??

cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: KiNGgTS25t on October 02, 2001, 09:03:13 PM
So what do you actually do for this mod? i have heard people talk about it but no one can give instrucs on how to do it?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SATO GTS on October 02, 2001, 10:14:32 PM
hey żżżżżżżżż31

thats cool..
yeah man every now and again i go down to gosford for a cruise , my sister used to work at rockmans at the tuggerah super store,so i use to go and hassle her out .. im nice ah??



L8R
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 03, 2001, 07:52:48 AM
Quote
.....i cleaned out my connection from the regulator and i have noticed a slight raise in top end power....


żżżżżż31 : Hi dude : ....what connection? what regulator?

cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 03, 2001, 08:09:39 AM
Hey all.

Still want to know the benefits of removing the Carbon Canister and how to do it and as Tinduck says what to do with the fuel tank pipe?

Also,  Tinduck, I wouldn't go and bend the actuator arm either.  I spoke to Rob from WAR Motorsport yesterday and he said yes it does increase boost pressure to what ever you set it to and yes it does hold boost where a bleed valave doesn't BUT, it means at 6000 RPM when you let the boost go out the wastegate the wastegate can't open as far and can cause all sorts of problems including the possibility of damaging the turbo!  :eek:

????????

Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 03, 2001, 08:26:32 AM
Quote
the wastegate can't open as far


Ben: Very very very very very good point...it's a bodge, not a mod...(IMHO)...

cheers

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 03, 2001, 08:28:07 AM
.....Oh, and just one more thing y'all......
LONGEST THREAD EVER!!!!

CHEERS

jON.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 03, 2001, 08:32:09 AM
That made your day didn't it Jon! :D

Lets go for the big 2 0 pages.

By the way - What do you do if you don't mind me asking.  You are a very enthusiastic post R?

Work, Play, Tech, School, Pimp????????:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 03, 2001, 10:07:41 AM
Evening all.....

Enthusiastic? Me? ...well, it's not every day you drop on a site where you can get top ideas for free.....and sort out the truth from the bull, without anyone (usually:D ) trying to sell you something....
( GO SDU !! )

.....as for me, Ben, I sell car spares and accessories for my sins ( not 2 glamorous but it's like messing with cars and getting paid for it......fine by me..)...I've always loved cars, just recently been converted to Skyrines and the joys of making them better:D :D

(previous rides included Ford Capri 2.8i, Escort RS Turbo, Sierra XR4i, XR4x4, and a tidy little 280bhp Cosworth Turbo powered Mk2 Escort )

....anyways, enough of this waffle,

GO THE FREE MOD THREAD !!!

Jon.
Title: carbon canister removal
Post by: rogang on October 03, 2001, 08:53:10 PM
Hey guys,
1. block off the vacum pipe that goes to the plenum.
2. connect the pipe from the fuel tank to the vacum pipe that goes to the throttle body.
  Now out comes the canister and we have more room ,without the smell of fuel.............

    hope this helps........

   cheers rog.......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 04, 2001, 09:47:25 AM
Rog: nice one dude...cheers 4 that.....should free up a bit more room for project front-mount hehehe
....which in turn should free up two lovely holes in the wing for cold air ducts to project airbox....

I've been offered an alloy intercooler off the top of a pulsar lump for next to nothing....it's twice the size of the GTS unit....and looks like it might fit up front without too much chopping.......gotta look into piping though (as always for next to no money :D )

Any thoughts out there?

.....on a more serious note, for the last 2 days I've noticed a smell of antifreeze coming through the air vents, and now the heater just steams the windows up....I'm guessing the worst: leaky matrix.....but can't see any loss of coolant....anyone of you guys suggest anything or had this problem before?????

Cheers as ever y'all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 04, 2001, 10:07:58 AM
Sounds like a leak even though you haven't any loss in fluid.  Steamy windows would suggest condenstaion and the smell must be open fluid?????
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 04, 2001, 10:11:19 AM
Rogang,

Is it safe with no side effects?

What does the canister do?

Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on October 04, 2001, 10:30:50 PM
It spose to take the gas fumes out of da tank.
Yup my car been done for a year now and no problems.
Its just smog gear thats all..........

       Cheers Rog.............
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on October 04, 2001, 11:36:38 PM
anyone know what the thead was called that had WD racing`s motor specs????????????
 bad memory and can`t find it.......

 ta  Rog::splat:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 05, 2001, 11:01:49 AM
Rog: just a thought...doesn't removing the canister leave a direct route open from the manifold to the fuel tank????:confused:
...or not?

anyways, bad day all round for me......
1) It is a burst heater matrix......coolant all over the carpet....
2) Dealer won't pay up...says I have to claim off the warranty company...
3) Warranty company has no record of my policy number....says the dealer just issued the policy without registering or paying for it.......
4) The dealer will not answer any of my phone calls.....
5) So legal action looks like the only option...
6) .......and I have no car to drive.......
7) ...and have completely lost all faith in there being one single honest car dealer on the planet....

.....so, how was YOUR day???

cheers as ever,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on October 06, 2001, 07:29:31 AM
Jon,  No it dosen`t .There is a pipe from manifold to the canister which u plug at the manifold.All the pipes meet at the canister. If u follow at pipes from the canister back u will see what i mean.
 Bummer about ya can man. Carsales men are all nice as pie to ya till they got your money then they just dont what to know you.......

 My day well..........so far so good.........

        cheers Rog.......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 06, 2001, 11:35:43 AM
Quote
My day well..........so far so good.........

.....hehehe good on you dude...:D

....so am I right in assuming that removing the canister does not give any performance benefits apart from freeing up some room to do further mods?????

........anyone out there got any more tips for free/cheap proven mods ?????

Cheers as always dudes,

Jon (without a ride)

GO THE FREE MOD THREAD !!!!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on October 06, 2001, 01:33:05 PM
Thats right Jon, just frees up some space so you can make some free extra horsepower with a big cold air box...........

        Have a great day......:)

                                           Rog......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Timbo R33 on October 07, 2001, 10:07:41 PM
WOOOHOOOOOOO!!!! I finally reached the end and am still alive!!!  :)

While changins some suspension parts on my car today I noticed a lot of greasy sludge under my car, which I cleaned out.  I got filthy as, but at least now if anything goes wrong I can see what and where.  It wont gain me any power, but *if* one of my poewr gain attempts goes wrong at some stage, I might have a bit better clue as to what happened.  Pretty useless point I know, but Im just trying to contribute a fresh idea!! :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on October 07, 2001, 10:42:42 PM
and on page 20 too..............
Title: ic
Post by: rogang on October 07, 2001, 10:49:19 PM
hey guys ,
                I had a look at my ic at the weekend and to my surprise it was totaly blocked. Took 40 mins to flush all the years of dirt and bugs out. What a mission that was but now its all clear and passing wind..........:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 08, 2001, 08:53:08 AM
Good point.  Mine might be very similar.

I think i will have a look at it soon...:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 08, 2001, 11:49:58 AM
.....well HELLLLLOOOOOOO PAGE 2..0 !!!!!!!!!!

hehehe...Longest thread, most replies, most pages and MOST VIEWS EVER .......YAY !!!!!!......just hope some of you are learning as much as I am dudes.......:D :D

...anyways, good point rog: had a look at my standard I/C the other day....'cos it's at 45 degrees to the airflow/bugs/rocks/bunnies/etc.....all the vanes are as flat as F**K...so next to no airflow thru the unit......time 4 the tweezers I guess.......cheers dude....

Timbo: fair point mate......you can see any oil leaks etc.....also a bit of weight saving eh ? :D

cheers as always you guys....

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 08, 2001, 11:54:27 AM
Prob's with the suicide critters huh?  Try a high powered water blaster.  D, most'of your critters should be well gone, a nice fine spray of mist makes big critters more palletable for smaller critters.....

So.....who's gonna be the guinea pig that takes their canister out first???
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 08, 2001, 12:01:18 PM
Quote
So.....who's gonna be the guinea pig that takes their canister out first???

....ME ME ME !!!!.....not that it'd make a difference.....car still a non-runner awaiting a new matrix.......

.......still not 110% sure about a direct pipe from the throttle butterfly to the fuel tank........what about surge in an accident???

.....oi 4nick: you emptied your inbox yet mate? trying 2 send yer a message..........

cheers all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on October 08, 2001, 12:02:32 PM
My canister has been out for a while now:D :D
 No problems at all...........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 08, 2001, 12:04:38 PM
well i have removed the carbon canister to but i put the fuel tank line into the line which was at the bottom of the canister and which goes under the car to move the fumes away from the engine. i also blocked of the vacum and inlet pipes.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 08, 2001, 12:18:41 PM
Hmmmm......

....guess I should add removing the carbon can and reconditioning the standard intercooler to the ever-increasing list of free mods then......

.....anyone disagree?????

cheers as ever,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on October 08, 2001, 12:41:34 PM
You just have to try things that are free:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 08, 2001, 12:44:25 PM
Quote
You just have to try things that are free


.......and that applies to an awful lot of things in life...........





:D :D :D

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on October 08, 2001, 12:48:33 PM
and where do you start...............the begining??


Rog......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on October 08, 2001, 06:50:26 PM
he he u guys are soo funny!

any of u guys got a picture of where the carbon canister is, or showing u guys taking it out?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on October 08, 2001, 10:01:18 PM
yeah mate ....no worries, ill take some snap shots of the the old girl with the canister in one hand and the spanners in the other...:laugh: :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Cob@lt60 on October 08, 2001, 11:23:36 PM
Correct me if im wrong, but doesnt the carbon canister have 3 hoses going into it.. and one that goes and just vents

Heres a little diagram (its pretty bad), maybe some of you guys can fill in the gaps for us all....

(http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~mschipper/carbon.jpg)

(A) is this the fuel hose?
(B)
(C)
(D) venting hose

What are we connecting here i assume (B) and (C)? what about (A)?

MARK.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: F-ZerO on October 09, 2001, 06:02:30 AM
:laugh:  :laugh: :laugh: honest car dealers:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: F-ZerO on October 09, 2001, 06:03:50 AM
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 09, 2001, 08:28:20 AM
Cobalt,

Isn't B the vacuum line and C is the signal? line what ever signal is?

A = fuel
D = vent
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 09, 2001, 09:09:07 AM
yes there are four lines

the fuel line should be conneced to the biggest pipe on the bottom of the canister and the other two should be blocked of near the inlet manifold
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 09, 2001, 10:49:31 AM
Quote
:D :D :D honest car dealers:D :D :D


.......all wakners, all of them,every last one.......bastids.....:)

....so anyways, I guess we connect A to D, and block off B and C.......right??

......(or just connect them all together to a common source, say, for example, erm, a ......canister....:D :D :D )

(hehehe sorry)

cheers you guys,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Cob@lt60 on October 09, 2001, 11:53:00 AM
ahhh cool

A - D and B - C

I think that explained it all.. im putting my cold air hose in on the weekend.. so i need lots of room for my 5' flexi duct.. I'm going to have to tapper one end because the 5' wont fit into the hold ive made near the filter.. (I should have got 4' duct).

On my carbon canister the VENT (D) end doesnt connect to anything.... should it... ive looked down near were i think it "should" connect but i cant see any loose hoses.. ???

MARK.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 09, 2001, 12:11:15 PM
....no, it just swings in the breeze.........

cheers,

pist off at being demoted to forum member just cos I live in the UK and can't send pound notes by e-mail but hey what the fukk....

Jon.

( liked   ..........00\___/00  much better )
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 09, 2001, 12:13:22 PM
.......maybe they'll put a tax on avatars next........:D :D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on October 09, 2001, 04:18:40 PM
OMG - I don't believe this thread is still going.

Well done fella's.

About the fuel reg mod.  I've heard that some how they centre punch the fuel reg so the preasure goes up.  I wouldn't recommend this cause it sounds too suss.

BUT - Pretty sure the reason why some of us R33 drivers are  leaning out above 10pound is from the lack of fuel presure, Sooooo, anyone know of a reliable way of upping the presure, or if there is a cheap (????) upgrade for our standard one???

Then we could up it to the 13 mark safely.

BTW - I'm running about 12.5-13 ATM, and it does seem to loose a bit of power up top.  I'm hoping to get a 3" dump on, and then wack on the S-AFC I have and get it tuned.  I know it doesn't really fit into this thread but I'll let you all know how I go.

Now that I have RSI I'll go ;)

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 09, 2001, 05:04:08 PM
Hey Tinduck.

I live in Hamilton N.Z and have paid my money to Brendon Moses direct and still only a Forum Member and still haven't even got my Membership Card:(

Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 09, 2001, 06:14:15 PM
well you dont really have to connect the fuel line to anything, just tuck it into the hole in the sil below where the canister was
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on October 09, 2001, 09:58:53 PM
Just plug up the hose that goes to the Manifold and shuv the fuel tank one into the fat hose that goes to the bottom.  Done 20,000kms so far no worries. If you dont plug the up the vacuum line the car will idle like ****

Loss of fuel pressure is a lack of flow. Bigger fuel pump???

I've paidup and still only a forum member but couldnt care less
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Zapf on October 09, 2001, 10:40:27 PM
Jay,
  If you recon you are running out / low on fuel pressure. It usually means your fuel pump needs replacing. Also the 25T's run lean on top not because of programming. But because they have run out of injectors.  the factory injectors are 375cc's and they reach about 85~95% peak at around 13~15psi.

Cheers
Zapf
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ndr on October 09, 2001, 11:04:03 PM
Hi Guy's,,,I'm new to this forum, new to my Skyline and blown away with this thread.

Just a thought on the cold air stuff, I work for a BMW dealer and late model E36's (thats the 3 series) use a black flexable hose about a metre long with a plastic snort on the front for there air intake. It's cost about $85.00 dollars and looks the goods. I will post the Part numbers tomorrow as there are two different ones.

Neil
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on October 09, 2001, 11:43:31 PM
Zapf - Mmm, something to think about, MAYBE (I'm hoping here) that upping the fuel presure might give the injectors a bit more flow then???

I've read somwhere on SDU that someone (whatshisname??? or a fella with a Unichip???) is getting about 200kw at the wheels on the standard injectors.

Is this right??

Thanks

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 10, 2001, 11:34:07 AM
Hi guys.....Forum Member Jon here (unpaid)


Quote
MAYBE (I'm hoping here) that upping the fuel presure might give the injectors a bit more flow then???

.........and I'm hoping Angelina Jolie will knock on my door to suck my ............:D :D

ndr: Hi buddy and welcome to the thread.....hope ya didn't get too bored reading it all lol.....go post them part numbers.....but ya gotta post some pictures of them too...........cheers.....

Zapf: Hi there, it's an honour to see someone of your reputation and expertise on this humble little thread.......thanx fellow forum member......

Hi to jay, dev, slow and biz......keep up the good work dudes....

Peace and tolerance,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 10, 2001, 12:22:27 PM
Cobalt, can you do me a fav' (eternal paranoid girls blouse), and take a few digi pics of the removal process.  It'd be good to consoidate a good archive of documentation on applying free mods (for those without the technical nouse, me included).  What we can do then is have a live document that we can update as more people carry out the mods.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 10, 2001, 12:27:35 PM
....major good idea alert 4nick: ...I like it......

.....create a storyboard of pictures for the hard of understanding ( like me :D )

......so, you up 4 collating all the info, 4nick???????

:D

cheers

Jon.
Title: ...
Post by: TheCross on October 10, 2001, 12:53:57 PM
Finally got to the end, started reading it ages ago and forgot about it. :)

Think I might stark work on my cold air box this weekend, ill take some pics for anybody interested.  I got some wacky ideas in my mind :rolleyes:

Go this thread!!!

TC
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Cob@lt60 on October 10, 2001, 12:56:05 PM
No Problems Nick,

Might take me a couple days to get hold of my bosses digicam though.

I took it out last night and went for a cruise (as ya do in da skylines).. i did find one small problem though.. after about 1 hour of driving i could smell the fuel in the cabin.. getting pretty high for a while there..

To remedy this problem i have moved the hoses (fuel and purge) so it vents under the car some more..

P.S. my picture was a bit wrong.. i have found if you look at the carbon canister there should be a sticker on the top telling you what each pipe does..

PURGE = A
FUEL = C
SIGNAL V/C = B
VENT = D

 (http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~mschipper/carbon2.jpg)

Basically what i did was block off B and A then place C somewhere to take away the fuel smell.. D isnt attached to anything so we can forget about that one.

Is this what you guys have done?

MARK.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 10, 2001, 12:59:15 PM
TC: ....you have done well my friend: welcome to the end.....get those gray cells going on airbox mods.....love ta see some pics when ya done.....

cheers

Jon.(forum member:headbutt: )

GO THE FREE/CHEAP/CRAZY MOD THREAD !!!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TheCross on October 10, 2001, 01:04:34 PM
he he reading this has put me out of misery for the day, only 3 hours of work left :)

Has anybody used a polystyrene to construct a cold air box from?  I was thinking a case of some sort lined with polystyrene. Any ideas?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Cob@lt60 on October 10, 2001, 01:08:16 PM
The Cross..

you will probably find that it would melt.. i guess it depends what sort of stuff it is.. you want to aim at somthing that is heat resistant.. I am using heat resistant 1 inch thick rubber $20 a squ'mtr.

MARK.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TheCross on October 10, 2001, 01:12:08 PM
Good thinking batman, did not think of that. Cheers dude. That will put me back to the drawing board a little.  Where abouts can I get that rubber? I am in Auckland.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TheCross on October 10, 2001, 01:13:25 PM
opps just noticed u are in OZ :) ill go hunting for it this weekend :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 10, 2001, 01:22:11 PM
Home at 5 to remove canister------yyeeeeeehhaaaaaaaa

Thanks Cobalt for the very accurate diagram!!!!!!

Free mods rock my world :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 10, 2001, 01:26:38 PM
Coolness......be interesting to see if there is any real difference in.....well, in anything.  But hey, it's a free mod, whaddya expect. :rolleyes:
Title: Cold Air Hose
Post by: ndr on October 10, 2001, 09:28:49 PM
Hey guys checked out the BMW hoses I was talking about, sorry no pics but you might ring your local dealer and have a look.

Part No:- 13-71-1743-351 Retail $88.10 (including GST)
Hose itself is 67cm long, 7cm ID with a plastic air intake 18cm x 5cm. Used on Z3 1.9's(M43 and M44 motors).

Part No:- 13-71-1743-320 Retail $78.40 (including GST)
Same as above but with a smaller plastic air intake of 12cm x 3cm. Used in E36 318is(M44 Motor).

Both hoses have plastic sleeves at the air filter end that is the same size as the ID of the hose. Going to be my 1st mod purchase towards a cold air box.

Can't remember who was talking about the water spray on the I/C and his bottle self emptying,,,,top idea really. Your local aquaruim shop sells one-way valves for the air pump that stops water self siphoning back into the pump in the event of loss of power.

Hope my little contribution helps.

Neil
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 11, 2001, 07:53:01 AM
Hi all......

ndr: cheers 4 the ideas on cold air pipes.....and nice one on the one-way valve......you can also find them fitted as standard to some car's washer systems...



Quote
Free mods rock my world

.......too right Dev.......


Quote
But hey, it's a free mod, whaddya expect.

.....50kw through the rev range.As always. At least. :D


...anyways, how about aluminium sheet for the cold air box? light, cheap, easy to form, strong.........?????

cheers as always y'all..

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 11, 2001, 08:43:33 AM
if you guys can hnag on for a couple of day i will have pics of a cold airbox we did on the weekend, its a 3 layer panel with great  heat resisting properties and it took us a little while to make it as it was out firs time but on sunday we will be making three more so i will have even more pics
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 11, 2001, 08:47:15 AM
.....hanging on...............:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 11, 2001, 09:02:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING

...anyways, how about aluminium sheet for the cold air box? light, cheap, easy to form, strong.........?????


That's what I was thinking, two pieces joint at right angles to section off the front corner of the engine bay (behind the headlight).  If fitted correctly the bonnet should act as the top plate and even comes with a foamy-polly-something-rather lineing which should act as a good seal.  I see no point in putting a lid on the box as there is already a great big painted one compete with a badge!  So yea, a good two piece ally box, perhaps dummied up with cardboard first so you can get the two plate sizes correct.  That's my plan anyhow.

Any thoughts?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Clint on October 11, 2001, 09:40:03 AM
Hi Guys im pretty new on this site

I have a r32 gtst auto, when standard my first mod was a aftermarket boost guage and it was running standard at 10psi
is this normal??

Anyway the main question is, has anyone experienced (on there skyline) exhaust manifold bolts snapping in the block?? i have three broken! :mad:

My Current r32 mods now are: 3" Exhaust, Turbo Smart BOV, Boost Guage, 2.5" PVC Intake piping (which is off this thread! - Go Go Gadget FREE MODS), Cat Removed and a boost tap (which is set on standard.)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 11, 2001, 09:41:10 AM
Tell me why people don't just use the factory airbox with a K+N pad filter insert and a cold air feed into it?

Thats what i have done and it works Primo!

Now i'm starting to sway towards the Pod and division?

Help?

Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 11, 2001, 09:52:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DEVEUS
Tell me why people don't just use the factory airbox with a K+N pad filter insert and a cold air feed into it?
Thats what i have done and it works Primo!
Now i'm starting to sway towards the Pod and division?
Help?
Ben


Prolly would've settled for your option but decided that air is too important to the mix to have any restrictions at all, that and apparently I get more woosh with a pod......coool....wooosh....sweet.:p
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Clint on October 11, 2001, 10:46:11 AM
P.S i have a NOS Kit for my skyline, and i was wondering if anyone has experieced installing one on a skyline before??

Ya just gotta love da stuff!:dozey:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on October 11, 2001, 10:50:49 AM
You can also hear the factory BOV with the pod, which is as loud as some aftermarket ones.
Title: nos
Post by: KiNGgTS25t on October 11, 2001, 01:31:45 PM
how much did your nos kit set u back man? what size shots u gonna run? hehe gotta quote for install yet? :eek:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Clint on October 11, 2001, 01:58:02 PM
kingGTS25

Nos Kit cost $2500, 75hp Shots is the minimum for this kit and goes up to 125hp. but everyone has said the on turbo cars it often is higher hp rating then what the manual says (which is good for me :).
Quote to install it was just over $600. but im sure i could find someone else cheaper. MAYBE
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: KiNGgTS25t on October 11, 2001, 03:42:16 PM
oh ok? has anybody seen the kits at JRS in chch? cos they are selling these for 1500$ and are adj from 50hp to 130hp i think?
i dunno if they came with the bottle tho?

is it really worth it? or turbo time for gts25?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MotoRex on October 11, 2001, 06:20:47 PM
Man this is a hell of a long thread... I read about the first 12 pages...skipped the next 10 or so.

A few common topics..

Air IN / Air OUT = HP.  Freer in /Freeer out - along with the fuel = more power.

The intake route - a stock box with a K & N is cheap. Depending on the car - Say an R33 has a little access panel that runs into the fender with a plug in it . Knock the plug out to draw more air in from the fender.

Least restriction - coldest air is the best . 10deg F = 1% in power...at least thats what they say...

More exhaust out. Bigger outlet pipes , but hard to do without the turbos out of there... bigger downpipe(front pipe). Least restrictive exhaust possible. But at a point - noise becomes an issue. I like the HKS 4" exhaust with the removable baffle. Expensive but damn nice.  At worst you could try an exhaust cutout. Something you open at the track. You can even buy remote opening dumps.

You could also try some heat isolation. Heat wrap on the downpipe. Heat wrap on the turbo outlet piping. More isolation the better.

Boost....how much can you run.... Question #1 - do you have a stock ECU ? Important question. IF you have a JDM ECU - made for JDM fuel - you have issues. Most of anything I have broken had a JDM ECU in it.  We have run 1.0bar  , by removing the restictor in the boost line on US pump gas (92 octane RON+MON/2)

With a Power FC stock R33 turbos(R33)  1.3 bar of boost pump gas...400 hp at the wheels. 12.4@112mph.

Wire #53....anyone run into the other fuel cut ?  The one after the 180 km/hr thing.... I mean the one about 145 -150 mph range(230 -240 km/hr). I think its maxing out the MAF sensors....Best idea I can come up with....

Another thing.... take off the turbos - clean up the mismatch - exhaust manifold to turbo.... horrible mismatch there... its a lot of work - but I think it would be worth real power. I have pics I can put up somewhere.

What other stuff.... GT-R needs a good clutch. The stock one won't last for anything drag racing. I like the Nismo twin plates with Nismo slave cylinders. Almost a stock feel - but with all the holding power plus a sprung hub.

I know an R32 with stock turbos will turn , can turn 11 second timeslips. Not doing it the Japanese way...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Cob@lt60 on October 11, 2001, 06:29:50 PM
Hey Motorex,

Yeah we love pictures.. as they say... a picture is worth a thousand words.. :)

I'd be very interested in seeing the "miss match" information you have.. :)

MARK.
Title: FREE RICE!!!!
Post by: flupstar on October 11, 2001, 09:36:22 PM
I know it might not necessarily be free horsepower but the subject came up earlier (I think it was in this thread, cant remember... took me so long to read).

So I like to think of this as free rice. We all love the psshhht (technical term) from an aftermarket BOV. Would I be correct in  saying that you dont hear the factory one much at all in an R33 skyrine because it doesnt vent to the atmosphere, but back into the intake?

So, can anyone tell me any problems with the idea of pulling that return hose off? block it off to keep the intake pressure up of course.. then just have the factory BOV vent straight to the atmosphere. It sounds technically sound to me.. what about you guys?

I have just installed a festo pressure valve thingy. this question was brought up earlier but never answered. I too am interested to know whether to keep the valve straight off the intake, before the boost solenoid... or put it AFTER the T junction... so the solenoid would be receiving an accurate boost figure but only the wastegate wouldnt be opening as soon/far.
My big question is.. does the boost solenoid give boost pressure readings to the ECU, or is that done elsewhere by something else?? If it DOES, then for the sake of the ECU creating proper mixtures etc.. it would definately be best to put the bleed (or whatever) valve AFTER the solenoid to prevent leaning out at boost.

Please tell me if Im just bull$h|tting :)
Look forward to your thoughts.

LONG LIVE THE FREE HORSEPOWER THREAD!

****EDIT****
I just looked some more, noticed there is a second vaccum hose going to the solenoid from the BOV return pipe (BOV -> INTAKE). So even if I put the bleed on the intake vaccum, the solenoid is still getting a REAL boost reading from this other hose. Must confuse it a bit :) Donno what effect it has. Im moving the valve down the line to exist only on the wastegate line now anyway, will post to let y'all know how it goes.
*bang* hehe
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 12, 2001, 09:09:54 AM
yyyyyyeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

:D :D :D :D :D

I have successfully removed that poxy carbon canister thingy!!!!!!

Undo every thing connected to it.  Find somewhere to put the fuel tank vent through the body or chassis somewhere.  Block off the two vacuum hoses at the manifold and remove the vent from the body work that originally went into the bottom of the canister.  Re-route the blowoff valve vacuum hose and remove all the steel vacuum tubes that are screwed to the intake pipe!

wala - all gone yyyeeehhhhaaaaa :D

More room for something else now.  Might have to buy a pod to spruce up the looks!!!!!!! :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Clint on October 12, 2001, 09:49:21 AM
flupstar

about the stock BOV,

i did the same you you will find that if you remove the return pipe you will find that you car won't idle. my suggestion would be to remove the whole this block the return pipe and put on an aftermarket BOV, + youll here the piisssssst :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Clint on October 12, 2001, 09:55:07 AM
KINGgts25

yea ive seen the $1500 nos kits, but they only are 50hp - 75hp.
it depents on which type of nos kit is designed for your car.

mine is for a turbo thats why mine cost a bit more, aswell as i bought a guage for it to and mine was complete with everything including bottle.

time to flick the switch i think! ssssssshhhhhhhh (BOOM!) ha ha ha:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 12, 2001, 11:00:58 AM
....Hi all......fecking hell it's getting busy in this little thread......

Flupstar: Hi dude...Clint is basically right....the standard BOV is a diaphragm type that is sucked open under vacuum, so it relies on a sealed return after the AFM to maintain the volume of air that the AFM thinks has passed it......
.....if you just vent the standard BOV to atmosphere, it will still work, and give a nice loud Chish, but on tickover, it's sucking more air in than the AFM is telling the ECU that the motor is getting, so it runs lean and stalls.......
....so either get a big pod which will let the recirculating dump be audible, or buy a piston type aftermarket BOV......
........rather than pay hundreds for a big name BOV to fit mine, I bought a cheap universal piston one, and made up a flange/90 degree pipe fitting to mount it to the crossover pipe .
.......made from an exhaust downpipe and a radiator hose.......
(BTW a piston BOV is always closed under vacuum....the vacuum on tickover from the plenum sucks open the main piston, but there is a secondary piston with a weak spring mounted inside the main piston that keeps the sytem airtight under vacuum)

....hope this makes a little sense :)

....as for where to put the bleed valve.....it looks at the moment like everyone has a different and 100% correct answer......so I will wait and see....

Ben: Hi buddy....it's quite likely that your system of cold air intake is the best.....'cos Nissan wouldn't have put a ****e one in in the first place....and you're just feeding a bit more cold into it......
......it's probably just that most people (like me) are seduced by the sound of lovely slurpy intake roar, so a pod is the only way to go.......and then all the hassle of boxing it in again, so you actually GET some cold air back in the motor.....

...way to go on the canister removal BTW.....

Motorex: Hi and welcome...any thoughts are much appreciated mate...

Kerry: Whoosh...Sweet..... we're easily amused :D

cheers you lot

Jon (still with poorly Skyrine :( )

GO THE FREE MOD THREAD !!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MotoRex on October 12, 2001, 02:13:17 PM
http://www.motorex.net/cladding/Mismatch.html


Some pics of the mismatch... the gasket looks like they wanted to use a bigger turbo on it...

I am of the belief that every little bit counts and that its all the small stuff and tuning that makes a car fast...not the just throw money at it point.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Clint on October 12, 2001, 02:50:33 PM
MotoREX

hey Mate, thanks for the pics, i see what you mean by missmatch (Like BIG TIME!!) :eek:

Well it may look like a another FREE (Apart from effort) MOD!

Me might consider (Fully) into pulling apart a make non restricting gasket.

Cheers Bud
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MotoRex on October 12, 2001, 02:56:00 PM
On a GT-R the gasket is not the restriction...rather the exhaust manifold.  Hard to tell exactly with the pics , but if you saw it in real life you could tell there is an issue there...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Clint on October 12, 2001, 03:11:08 PM
just wondering ive got a r32 gtst i wonder if thats as restrictive too.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 13, 2001, 08:39:49 AM
Probably after looking at those pics :(

Out with the die grinder :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 14, 2001, 01:23:44 PM
....that mismatch is SOOO bad it kinda makes you think it SHOULD be there for some reason........
.........but what the fvck do I know? :)

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Timbo R33 on October 14, 2001, 11:13:44 PM
Now I might be naive here, but what exactly does the carbon canister do??  Im assuming that its a vent for the fuel tank so that it doesnt pressurise or vauumise (shuddup Im sure thats a word somewhere in the world :p )  But what are all the extra lines for??

Im only wondering coz Im about to rip the bugger out and now Im curious as to what it does exactly.  I know its some emissions thingy and its required to be there, but what the govt. dont know wont hurt them!! :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ndr on October 16, 2001, 12:25:15 AM
Why not just re-locate the thing. All a carbon/charcoal canister does it filter out excess petrol fumes. Nothing more, nothing less. It's just part of the emission control system. Unless your Rego Checker,EPA man or RTA in NSW is a mate,,,,sooner or later someones gonna kick your butt.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 16, 2001, 12:33:07 AM
ndr: good point mate....you're hardly going to save any weight by removing the thing. so why not just move it, say to the other side of the bay.....

cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MotoRex on October 16, 2001, 06:06:24 AM
The carbon cannister is used to filter the air when fuel is added to the gas tank , or when the fuel tank is heated and the air expands.

That flamable vapor needs somewhere to go and that is the job of the carbon cannister.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on October 16, 2001, 07:55:41 AM
Mismatch? Have a look at the factory turbo dump pipe :)

Nduck, you try running the hoses to the other side of the car! :D

Doesnt really do anything. Just make sure you pipe the fuel tank outlet away from the engine bay

Motorex, just watched fast and the furious. Lurve that yellow GTR :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 16, 2001, 08:59:17 AM
DEVEUS an I decided it'd make sense to plumb that Fuel tank outlet back into the air box.....I mean if there's free combustable gasses going, why not use them.....

Anyone?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 16, 2001, 09:33:30 AM
I second that!

Free burny burny.........yeehhaaa

More free horsepower!!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MotoRex on October 16, 2001, 10:17:30 AM
Which is exactly what the carbon cannister does....but it filters the air and also reintroduces it back into the intake....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 16, 2001, 10:29:45 AM
So all we're doing is removing the rather size-able cannister that takes up valuable pod filter and ramflow room....  Man we're smart. :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on October 16, 2001, 10:55:37 AM
Slow GTS-t. I reckon that yellow GTR in fnf looks terrible! **** wheels, too high, etc.

Alothough I have had alot of enquireies from customers about airbrushed sticker grafx. I now have a range of them I am releasing soon.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on October 16, 2001, 02:07:13 PM
The only thing I didnt like was the airbrushing. Dont like any airbrushing in general. Like the wheels and I think the car is the right height. not a fan of super dumped cars
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 17, 2001, 10:48:31 AM
...Hey!!! ....Give the poor dude a break....I mean , there's nothing wrong with a bit of airbrushing...........( as long as you live in the 1970s that is....:D :D  )

( sorry MFX dude, no offence meant )

........sorry to be a bit of a party pooper , but if the canister didn't do anything practical, then why would Nissan tool up and build the damn thing in the first place.......and don't say it's just for emissions: surely they're measured from the exhaust anyway......

......still dreaming of having my car back to play with,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: KiNGgTS25t on October 17, 2001, 11:37:31 AM
meaning i shouldnt have ripped it out???? lol
:rolleyes:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 17, 2001, 11:41:25 AM
Quote
meaning i shouldnt have ripped it out???? lol


....well, some people rip out their Hicas 'cos they think it's an amplifier..........:D :D :D



( sorry sorry sorry you-know-who)

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 17, 2001, 12:38:10 PM
Well i'm leavn the poxy canister out regardless of what others say.  I havn't had any troubles and its f.cken ugly.  Long live the tidy-not-full-of-sh.t-and-wasted-space engine bay. :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on October 17, 2001, 02:15:05 PM
not like its gonna do anything bad with it out, worse thing possible would be the smell of petrol if u put the outlet pipe somewhere stupid, it does take up space but does no harm so depending on if ur a guy who wants to maximise space for his cold air box or if ur a guy who is worried about the adverse affects of it, just do wantever u decide. no point talking about the adverse or positive affects it may have in taking it out or leaving it in cause theyll always be someone who decides the opposite.

eg. in the case of cutting the #53 wire. myself and a few other people had learnt about it, cut the wire, told everyone it was fine but it still took ages of discussion and a few months before more people decided it was ok. come on guys be more adventurous its only a wire u couldve always reconnected it again if it didnt come to anything. (only talking to some of u by the way)

some of u are really adventurous in the free or cheap do it urself kind of area, which is great cause we can find out new mods.

if ur normally a tentitive kind of person round cars just give it a go, as long as others have done that mod/idea before u and it was fine uv got nothing to lose.

sorry im rambling, just reckon everyone should give free mods a go, u can learn a lot from fiddling, it should never be expensive, just remember what u did and so if u stuff things up u can bring it back to the way it was before u fiddled with it.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 17, 2001, 02:24:43 PM
I cut wire #53 as well but i have side effects.

My car has no power at about 160km/h.  

This only happened after cutting the wire?????????

It is starting to f.ck me off now as i can't work out what it is.

It just dies and stays at engine speed rpm and you can't accelerate at all????????????

Any ideas :idea:

Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on October 17, 2001, 03:32:12 PM
which gear?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SIR33 on October 17, 2001, 04:49:32 PM
OK GTS-T R33 friend.  I have some input for you,  I have a 96 GTS R33 of which I bought stock and modified myself.
Inorder for performance:
1)  3 in ex system from turbo (dump pipe) back with hi-flow cat
2)  Add pod (mount it as far and as high as possible into the courner of the engine bay for coolest air.) throw the standard air box in the bin.
3)  Add a aftermarket BOV pref. a turbo smart type 3. (this with the pod fitted sounds great (appart from this you notice the diference in gears changes).
4)  Increase the boost (max 12 psi) with a cost effective turbo smart under bonnet manual ajustment modulal. (even at this boost there is a risk of blowing up the turbo of which I just did at 13 psi costing me AUD$3000 for a ball bering Garett turbo) Putting it bluntly the stock turbos are quite crap and should be replaced anyway to get the most from the engine.  Same for the intercooler.
5)  Advance timming

By doing these 5 mods you will increase the cars hp by approx. 40%  i.e. 13.2-13.5 times over 1/4 mile.

I have also set a water injection for the intercooler by buying to spray jets from the wreakers, disabling the rear wipper and re-directing it to the intercooler sprayers.

Hope this helps you out.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Glithran on October 17, 2001, 05:32:31 PM
I love reading this thread, and although I have an old skyline, :homer: I find it quite interesting.  Keep up the good work guys! GT-R is :king: !

GO THE (MOSTLY) FREE MOD THREAD!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 18, 2001, 03:37:41 PM
Personally i think having a pod filter without a cold air feed is a waste of time as engines don't like hot air.  See how you feel after breathing in a oven and then try it outside at night when its snowing.  I think you'll find you'll be a lot more energetic and ready to perform if you are outside...........

Pods are good but only with a cold air feed.  As you all know i have a K+N pad with a cold air feed into the airbox and it works primo but i am getting a Trust Airinx Pod soon but not until i have built a cold box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not easy breathing through a straw either - ever tried it.

Open up the flow as much as you can for free horsepower!!!!!!

Thoughts for the day  :D

Everyone seems to be slacking off here.....the thread nearly made it to page 2!!!!!!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 18, 2001, 04:54:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING

....well, some people rip out their Hicas 'cos they think it's an amplifier..........:D :D :D

( sorry sorry sorry you-know-who)
Jon.


You bastard...you just couldn't help yourself..... :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on October 18, 2001, 06:40:00 PM
Quote
...Hey!!! ....Give the poor dude a break....I mean , there's nothing wrong with a bit of airbrushing...........( as long as you live in the 1970s that is....  )


Believe it or not I agree. I much prefer a neat car with a sweet candy spray job...........but I have a business to run so I will have to wait 'till (if) I change jobs before I can own a neat car like that.:(

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 19, 2001, 10:17:23 AM
Hi all....

Dave: Hi dude....good points well put....let's all be a bit more adventurous in our mods....

Deveus: Hi, dunno about your 160km/h problem....tell us more....
(PS: slacking off? what ya mean matey?)

SIR33: Nice input ,nice 1/4 mile times....it's good to know that mods actually produce good results....just one question: advancing the timing on an R33...how?

Glithran: Hi and welcome.....but imho GTS is:king: ........1/3 the price, and 3/4 the power....(well, is works 4 me:D )

4nick: sooooo sorry...there's some things ya just can't resist...

Jeff: you should send me a catalog mate...

....anyways, my BIG Pipercross cone filter turned up today :D ....so it's off to the dungeon to get the bugger to mate with my AFM......and design the cold air partition......pictures will be taken........

cheers as always you guys,

Jon.

GO SDU!!!!!

GO THE EXPERIMENTAL MOD THREAD!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 19, 2001, 10:58:10 AM
Tinduck.

I will be driving in 5th on the open road with the pedal to the floor and when it gets to about 160ish 170ish it just dies.  It feels like a limiter.  It has only done it since i cut # 53.  Sometimes it doesn't do it.  Even pumping the pedal feels like it is trying to load the engine up but its like theres something stopping the fuel going through or stopping the throttle opening.  I am really confused.  If you know what a speed limiter feels like under the pedal then thats what this feels like!!!!!!!!

But the wire is cut.  Maybe the ECU has got confused and gone haywire but when i did an ECU diagnostics it came up 55 all ok.

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Title: My contribution for the day
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 19, 2001, 03:26:26 PM
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0987/page1.html

Man that Julian Edgar dude thinks of everything....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Glithran on October 19, 2001, 04:54:03 PM
Quote
but imho GTS is ........1/3 the price, and 3/4 the power....


Would it cost less to convert a gtst into a gtr (less 0.1L capacity) than to buy a gtr???
Title: SUCCESS STORY
Post by: flupstar on October 19, 2001, 07:37:07 PM
Ok I just have to ramble on about my success.
I did everything I was talking about.. played with various configurations with the bleed valve and I think Ive found a sweet spot... I want to try more ways of putting it in but its going so GREAT right now that I just dont wanna touch it.

running 14psi of boost... gapped the plugs to 0.8mm... advanced the timing... reset the ECU... gave her a hammering for a while and its running like... damn. like... huge difference. even without the boost increase, lots more torque and power.

I think I will get electronic boost control very soon. having this two (three in my case) stage boost is bothersome. Id like to be able to get more than 6psi of boost in the lower rev ranges... does anyone know how and why the boost is limited like this, creating the two stage boost? curious to know if it can be overcome without electronic boost control.

back to admiring newfound power...
Title: need some help ?
Post by: james-r33 on October 19, 2001, 08:59:11 PM
hi guys man what a monster , hope this page keeps on going .

  any way what i want to know is . well you know hicas how do you know that you have it or not , case i know about the things down by the drive shaft and i havent got them BUT  the other day we had to replace the control arm bushes it the beast (as they were f***ked) and the fact we had to move the bolt hole forward 5mm to stop the rigth hand wheel wearing out unevenly not to much of a misson  ,but when reconectioning my battery i pulled of the fuse case in the back (i dont know why i did it) but it had  written on it hicas as having a fuse as well as lsd and 4ws so i can only think that may be i have it and in doing so i looked up to see a little box in the rear of the car so dose that do the hicas or is it an amp ,cause i know that i dont have the light that comes up on the dash (may the bulb is blown?) nor do the lights when you put it from power to snow (if ther is a light for them) so hope fully someoje can help me out as i am not really worried about it as it would be more for pice of mind .

the other thing is you know on our cars how that big air pipe comes down to the air box what is the deal with that big brick thing under it looks like it is attached to it  but what dose it do
and if i remove the whole lot and put like a steel pipe down to the amf would that be better or is there things in there that are not to be moved ?

well that is all keep up the page as it is very good go the sdu yahoo:homer: :rolleyes: :dfinger:


p.s. the gtr on faf is way cool go the yellow gtr :hawaii:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on October 20, 2001, 07:44:49 PM
Quote
Jeff: you should send me a catalog mate...


Jon. The stickers I have are still in developement and I will post some of them when I have the finished products. As for the other artwork you can see it on my site:D :) :( :mad:

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 23, 2001, 10:32:48 AM
Hi all....been busy building Project Cold-air........

Dev: Hi buddy.....your problem confuses me.....my speed limiter used to cut in at 100mph ( 160 kmh ) BEFORE I cut the wire.......but all is fine now....odd....at what speed did your limiter cut in before???

4nick: top link once again my friend......very informative......:)

Githran: ....there's much more to it than 0.1litre buddy....I wish it was that easy :) .....the GTR is a totally different and far more advanced beast......I'll just have to make the most of my baby GTST on my very limited budget.....

flupstar: Hi dude: how and how far have you advanced the timing????.....and what did you find was the best way to set up the bleed valve??? ( I've removed mine at the moment, as it seems to run better and faster with my new intake and no bleed)

james: go round to the back of your car, fall over, and look under it....if you can see what looks like a steering rack with a wiper motor nailed to it, then you've got HICAS......if not, you ain't....ok??
.....as for the big brick type thingy, I'm assuming you're talking about the non-turbo motor.......I had one for over a year, and never found out what the big plastic box stuck to the crossover pipe was for......so I would like to know as much as you.....

Anyways, whilst waiting for my heater matrix to crawl over from Japan, I've fitted my BIG cone filter........built a mock-up cold air partition from cardboard.....cut it out of foamex (lightweight plastic stuff they make signs out of) ....next task is to put a heat reflective coating on it, and pipe some extra cold air to it......pictures have been taken......
(trial run on a cold night....more power on standard boost than when the bleed valve was fitted......GRIN FACTOR NINE CAPTAIN !!!)

.......cheers as always for all your help dudes...

Jon.

GO SDU!!!!

GO THE 1/7th THE PRICE OF A BLITZ FILTER MOD THREAD !!:D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 23, 2001, 12:30:00 PM
Jon, what type of filter did you go with?  Looking forward to the cold air pics.  Had a big mod monday (public holiday) at Ben's place.  4 Skylines in the same place at the same time, canister's out, gauges in....it was all go!  I think the coming weeks will see the Super Sucking Sunday (pod filter time!!!), so more pics to come from that.  Deveus an I spent a good length of time try'n to think of some more free HP mods, but could think of nothing useful, I guess it's time to start looking at the 'low cost mods' and was of making them more low cost (e.g the 1/7th the cost pod option).  Quite interested in seeing why you are getting better results with the factory boost, I know Ben's waggon plays up sometimes with increased boost.  Perhaps it's a timing thing......

Keep us posted. ;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 23, 2001, 12:53:02 PM
here are some pics of my car with my new intake pipe, extractors and my cold air box
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 23, 2001, 12:54:04 PM
and another angle
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 23, 2001, 01:00:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bizkit
and another angle


Don't look now but there's a ghostly image in your picture.....
:eek:
......oh my god!  And he's thiefed off with your Turbo and ABS :eek: ....AAHHhhhhh!!!!!!

:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 23, 2001, 04:34:42 PM
heh
i dont need no turbo
and the abs, well havent quite found a situation that i have needed it
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 23, 2001, 04:59:20 PM
.....your transfer case, second drive(oops)shaft, GTR body kit, 100cc's of engine capacity.........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on October 23, 2001, 08:14:17 PM
hey Bizkit, the box and piping, is it all made out of aluminium? looks like it but wasnt sure. is the AFM inside the airbox?? looks cool and must flow extremely well

james r33 and tinbuck: that brick thingee attached to the airbox piping is the resonance box, all it does is cut down intake noise, ive ripped it out and there are no adverse effects.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 23, 2001, 08:32:47 PM
the material used is what i work with.

i make airconditioning ducting. the stuff is a 3 layer sandwich

1 layer aluminum
1 layer (20mm) polyurathane
1 layer aluminum

its great at keeping heat out as you can have an 80 degree temp diferance before the material starts transferring heat between the two sides

the piping is mild steel 2.75" mandrel bent with attachments for the breather hoses
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on October 23, 2001, 08:50:29 PM
Quote
james r33 and tinbuck: that brick thingee attached to the airbox piping is the resonance box, all it does is cut down intake noise, ive ripped it out and there are no adverse effects.


I can't remember the actual magazine I read the article in but they actually did a test with resonalting chambers. I actually has a power benefit. In their testing using a dyno they compared the factory resonating chamber, vs none, vs a Large coke bottle and soething else. The actually found that the bigger the resonating chamber the greater the power. This was of course a minimal power difference as it was about 1kw at the wheels btween best and worst.

If I find the article again I will let you know (that is a seemingly impossible task in my mountains of car magazines:splat: )

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 23, 2001, 10:00:58 PM
Hi all....

Bizkit: nice box dude...

David: thanx 4 the help

4nick:
Quote
, second crankshaft,

.......oh dear, you must be a little unwell........:D :laugh: :D :laugh: :D

Pictures and spec of filtermod imminent....

Cheers all,

Jon

...................propshaft??????
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 23, 2001, 10:10:22 PM
yeah i have read the same article as well

the biggger box helped with lower end power and the smaller chambers helped with higher end power
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on October 24, 2001, 08:43:52 AM
Er.. didnt all the setups have the same peak power with the resonators only making a difference in the midrange?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 24, 2001, 09:54:58 AM
I removed the bottom half of my factory airbox last night in preparation for my pod filter and cold air corner jobby.  My blowoff valve is 100 times louder and i still have the cold feed.  No need to purchase a multi-million dollar ricey blowoff valve now - or at least ot yet :D

I also wound up my boost to 13 psi.  WOW!!!!!

I didn't realize that from 0.8 bar to 0.9 bar was 1.5 psi.

My car feels like a dragster now in comparison to what it felt like before!  I love it and to no side effects so far!!! :D

I will have some good cold corner development photos for you all soon.  Stay Tuned, Same Bat Time, Same Bat Channel.....;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on October 24, 2001, 12:16:35 PM
Quote
Er.. didnt all the setups have the same peak power with the resonators only making a difference in the midrange?


Yeah, actually that sounds like it. I read it along time ago and couldn't remember.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Cob@lt60 on October 24, 2001, 02:06:52 PM
Well, I have finially completed my Cold air intake and partition..

I will try to get some pics soon.. boss has taken the digicam to QLD.. damn him..

5" intake from my front bar going to a 4" outlet into my "cold air chamber".. soo nice.. seems to have a bit more boot now.. :)

I've made a "HOWTO" on my site if you want to have a look.. no pictures yet.. they are on their way

http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~mschipper/r32tips/coldairintake.html (http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~mschipper/r32tips/coldairintake.html)

MARK.

Just hoping the 5" pipe isnt obstructing my std. intercooler flow.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: KiNGgTS25t on October 25, 2001, 09:01:35 AM
Bizkit? how much is that material worth? im interested in trying to get hold of some would u be able to email me please.

skylinegt25@hotmail.com

Cheers man
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 11:34:07 AM
.....finally it's done......project coldair lives.....and it works !!!
.....but more importansly, it cost me £43 in total ( 147nzd ) ....as opposed to the £280 ( 957nzd ) that it would have cost me for the Blitz filter over here......:D
I've got loads of pics and info, but here's the first and last for now dudes......( it sounds beautiful :D  )
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 11:35:44 AM
......and the final result............

Cheers all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 25, 2001, 11:38:43 AM
Sheit Jon, you don't do things by halves do you!  That looks sweet!  Ben an I are starting the same this weekend.

Damn you R33 owners and your useful and accessable air intake pipe!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 11:45:32 AM
....cheers buddy....I made it from red Foamex for that " you-can-see-what-I've-done " look..........and now I have the patterns, I can just form it from black Foamex for the almost-factory-stealth type look......:D
.....hey 4nick, what's the best way to post the whole step-by-step series of pictures for all to see??

cheers dudes,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 25, 2001, 11:48:34 AM
....the only way.....one at a time.  If you Email them to me I'll add them to the growing archive of "freehorse power - the definitive mod book"

Kerrysu@datacom.co.nz

Cheers.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 01:04:21 PM
....ok all.....here's the lot for you R33 dudes....
......remove the factory setup.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 01:06:26 PM
.......airbox, lid, element, cold feed, and airflow meter....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 01:07:52 PM
......unbolt AFM from airbox.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 01:14:32 PM
.....Carefully remove gauze from inlet of AFM....pick a cone filter that fits well inside.....a Pipercross C7009V will do nicely Sir....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 01:15:59 PM
.....a gob of gasket goo to seal, and..... together at last......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 25, 2001, 01:16:38 PM
hmm

i have found using an adapter plate usualy helps as well
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 01:17:28 PM
....use a card template to plan the cold air division.....and trim to a good fit...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 01:19:06 PM
....refit and trim the card 'til it's a perfect fit.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 01:21:09 PM
.....cut the plastic sheet to size using the card template.....and form the shape with boiling water.....( carefully dudes )...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 01:25:39 PM
.....form the cold intake extension by softening some more plastic around a broomhandle....and trim to fit.....
.....heat reflective surface applied to the finished division.......
( yeah it's just kitchen foil and pva glue, but it works, ok :)  )
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 01:27:58 PM
Quote
i have found using an adapter plate usualy helps as well

........are they free???
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 25, 2001, 01:30:20 PM
no not quite free
but i though this had leaned towards a almost free thread
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on October 25, 2001, 01:30:44 PM
That is soooo sweeetttt.  It's a shame that your not in Aust.

I always thought the intercooler pipes would be a pain in the backside, but all looks good on yours.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 25, 2001, 02:01:57 PM
Won't be long guys - I'm almost there.

Unfortunately i haven't taken any photos on the way but you will be able to see the before and after shots! :D

I have completed 3/5's of the whole 'Cold Air Corner'.

Just trying to save $230nzd to buy my Trust Airinx Yellow Pod Filter!

They reckon 9.6kw more power over a K+N in a modified standard airbox with cold air feed!!!!!!!!!:eek:

GREAT WORK TINDUCK!;)

Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 02:04:08 PM
bizkit: no offence meant dude....an adaptor ( square to round ) would be the ideal option....but I was just trying to do it as cheaply as possible :) ...plus I wouldn't have had room for one 'cos of the size of the filter....it's already right against the inner wing........cheers anyway dude...

Jay: thanx buddy.....it works well and sounds the business......I will measure the difference in temperatures on both sides of the box this week.........
....I realise that the partition is not 100% airtight, but it does feed a good amount of cooler air to the better-flowing filter.....and throttle response is noticeably better.......plus it cost next to nothing........I'm sure that there are far superior intakes around, but surely not for this kind of money?

....thanks as always y'all....

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND HORSEPOWER.......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on October 25, 2001, 02:12:38 PM
Just on the subject of intake temps.

Just to experiment I got a temp probe mounted right next to my HKS pod and oh my god.  Stopping at lights yesterday for about 2-3 mins saw the temp right next to the filter hit 60 degrees!!!!

And it took a good 1 min or so of driving at 60km/h to bring the temps down to around 30 degrees.  That was on a 24 degree day.

I think there just isn't much in the way of air flow where the pod sits.

This cold air thingy must be a good thing for HP figures.

You've got me all pumped up to do mine now.

BTW:  Does anyone know where I can get a replacement filter for the HKS pods??  Mine is about due for a new one.

J
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 25, 2001, 02:19:15 PM
no offence taken man but there is ways around length problems

why do you think some of my friends call me the butcher?

btw i do like the look of your one more then mine
yours seems to look like someone in a shop made it and mine looks like somebody in a back yard made it (hang on we did)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 25, 2001, 02:26:07 PM
Jay: if yours is the green mushroom type HKS pod, then you can wash the foam and replace it..........

biz: cheers dude....yours will be more thermally efficient though....

......but I suppose that the point is that we all try different things and see what works the best for the least money....

thanks all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: KiNGgTS25t on October 25, 2001, 02:32:10 PM
We could all get real budget and make one out of paper mashe' ????? :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on October 25, 2001, 03:24:08 PM
bizkit: where do u get that stuff u used from, i mean the aluminium/polyurathane/aluminium stuff. im in auckland too. is it really expensive?

good stuff guys, cant wait 2 do airbox mods once my uni exams finish.

tinbuck: how on earth can filters cost $900 bucks thats crazy! do people actually pay that much in the UK???

just got some carbon fibre from my friend who works in a america's cup racing yacht building place, gonna make up a carbon fibre dash, well the bit where the a/c and stereo is anyway. should look really cool. good thing i got it for free cause this stuff arent cheap!

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 25, 2001, 08:25:26 PM
well the stuff i availabel from a place in henderson but you have to buy complete sheets. normaly this would not be a problem but each sheet is 4 m x 1.2 m and the stuff is like $35 per square meter
however if you are willing to go for a drive i am sure i could organise a few offcuts at work that might just be the right size

:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on October 25, 2001, 10:35:59 PM
Bizkit: man, that would be awesome!just give me the details of where i need to go and when u would like me to come and ill be there!if u dont have the stuff right now, just email me when u do!no hurry! i dont really think i would have use for 4 metres of the stuff!haha

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 26, 2001, 07:48:06 AM
Quote
how on earth can filters cost $900 bucks

David: ..Oops! ...my mistake.....HKS pod filters are now £155 plus tax....a measly 633nzd.......
(still not a bargain though eh? )

cheers

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on October 26, 2001, 08:39:20 AM
http://www.mkiv.com/techarticles/filters_test/1/
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 29, 2001, 10:09:07 AM
Slow: interesting link there dude,thanks.

......do you guys have filter makes like Pipercross and Jetex over there????

cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on October 29, 2001, 10:51:07 AM
Never heard of those brands in Aus mate. Big ones over here are K&N, RushO2, Unifilter, and others. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 29, 2001, 11:02:28 AM
We have Blitz, HKS, Rush, Trust, Apexi, K+N, Redline.

Prob more but can't think right now it's Monday. :D

Thats in N.Z - The arsehole of the world. :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 29, 2001, 11:25:24 AM
Ben, what was the name and address of the treadplate place you were talking about the other day?  Might go grab some....just love the look of that shiney air feed corner you made...... :)
Title: SORRY TINDUCK
Post by: flupstar on October 29, 2001, 05:26:51 PM
Tinduck, sorry it has taken me so long to reply. Ive been busy working on the car. I bought a new bleed valve this weekend. Its so much better than the old $33 festo item. I just got a normal GFB thing and Im very happy. Anyway the setup is like this:

Disconnect both hoses from the boost control solenoid and block each of them (with a screw, cable tie, whatever) but leave the solenoid connected to power to keep the ECU happy. install the bleed along the actuator line... between the nipple on the intake and the wastegate valve thingy... I put mine directly off the nipple with 2 inches of hose, left the T piece in the line for no particular reason save so that I could connect it up as it was stock if I ever want to and then run a few inches of hose to the other end. making the actuator line as short as possible has made a difference. With this set up it boosts very quickly to around 13psi .. and never does more than about 1.5psi overboost.. which only lasts 0.5 to 1 second which is nicely safe. I have advanced my timing around 5 degrees and still no ping. Taking it further this week. gives the car much more off-boost kick and it definately laps the higher boost levels up better. I also set up a foam based pod filter (hear that turbo scream now... sounds so good.. has also made the factory BOV very audible outside the car:)))) ). This made a huge difference.. most notible the boost/power is very smooth. and of course there is more of it!

Perhaps my most expensive purchase is a new set of NGK iridium plugs which I regapped to 0.8mm.. once again I noticed the difference from the platinum plugs which have been in there from the factory (60,000km).

Any other questions.. or if you want more detail regarding my bleed set up... give us a yell, I might be able to take a photo or two:)

-flupstar.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 30, 2001, 03:02:12 PM
4Nick8,

MICO Metals on Norris Ave in Te Rapa, Hamilton, N.Z

In the front door there is a 44 gallon drum with large pieces for $10 bucks a pop and smaller bits which is what i used for $5 bucks a pop on the floor.  Just ask for the cash deal Tread Plate scraps.

Flupstar,

How do you know how far to advance the timing without running into Detonation problems?  How much were you Iridium Plugs in $NZD?

Seeyaall........

Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: OPL33Z on October 30, 2001, 03:36:41 PM
hey this thread is getting big lets keep it going.. once we get to 60 pages we will be almost as big as the " PRETTIEST GIRL " thread on HondaSociety.. :p
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on October 30, 2001, 03:51:50 PM
Coming close to 10,000 views people

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on October 30, 2001, 04:11:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by OPL33Z
hey this thread is getting big lets keep it going.. once we get to 60 pages we will be almost as big as the " PRETTIEST GIRL " thread on HondaSociety.. :p


gimme a url :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 30, 2001, 04:14:53 PM
Whats a URL Unfamilia?

Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on October 30, 2001, 04:16:50 PM
web address :)

Universal Resource Locator

sorry im at work (ISP tech support) :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 30, 2001, 04:44:35 PM
I know what most abrevos are and their purpose but all self taught so am still learning.  Computers are infinite just like learning new things. :D
Title: timing
Post by: flupstar on October 30, 2001, 08:16:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DEVEUS
4Nick8,
Flupstar,

How do you know how far to advance the timing without running into Detonation problems?  How much were you Iridium Plugs in $NZD?

Seeyaall........

Ben


DEVEUS.. Ive been reading around, seeing how far everyone likes to advance their timing before I gave it a go... 2-5 degrees is common. I just treated it like a bleed valve.. take it up, drive it around, watch out for the evil ping :D Anyone see any problems with my method?

Dont know about NZD.. Im in Aust. They retailed at $120 AUD.. I got them for $100 from a nice parts dealer friend.

Just to add to the discussion.. Ive been shopping around for cheap, effective and easy to install (for non handymen like me) substances for a cold air box. Today I found some great stuff in bunnings... its some kind of roof insulation stuff... thin sheets (about 1-1.5mm thick) which is basically a layer of aluminium, fiberglass and aluminium again. Its flexible.. but strong enough to hold a rough shape.. and wont tear too easily. Pretty damn good seeing as though they charged me 50 cents for a scrap piece of about 2 square metres.

Hows that for free horsepower. Or something very very very close to it.

:)

-flupstar
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on October 31, 2001, 08:54:52 AM
Flupstar,

Were those $100 ea or $100 for the set.  I know std ones are $25nzd ea so i would be assuming $100 ea x 6?

If so yeah they are dear aren't they but you get what you pay for too!  I mite consider it.

Ben

Ps:  What has advancing the timing done to the running and performance of the car??????????????
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on October 31, 2001, 09:37:57 AM
Extra extra! Get you irridium plugs here

http://www.rotorua.toyota.co.nz/promo_parts1_detail.asp
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 31, 2001, 11:57:32 AM
flupstar: Hi there buddy....cheers for the advice....a picture or two of your valve setup would be cool....still not too sure if you're using the valve as a bleed or a restrictor....
.....how do you adjust the timing on the RB25 anyway???
....I like the roof insulation idea....what's the stuff called??

thanks for your help as always,

Jon.

.......10,000+ views??????....Jeez,I hope you're all learning as much as me from this little old thread..........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on October 31, 2001, 03:07:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by DEVEUS
...I know std ones are $25nzd ea so i would be assuming $100 ea x 6....
If so yeah they are dear aren't they but you get what you pay for too!  I mite consider it.
[/B]


D, go see your mates at Nissan, see if they'll give us a discount for 2 or 3 sets (Paul), and I'll flick ya some coin this weekend.
Title: ooh Im popular
Post by: flupstar on October 31, 2001, 05:23:18 PM
Ben,
$100 for the set of 6. I believe they are actually cheaper than platinum plugs but probably wont last as long. But they'll certainly last a long time anyway. If it was $100 each, I think Id now be the proud owner of a new intercooler by now instead:D.

As for the timing advance, it appears to me to have done the following...
Increased off boost 'guts'. It feels much more responsive off the line and gives it a good deal more punch before I reach boost.
It also runs much better under high boost... with the timing lower, I could up the boost from 8 to 13psi and notice little difference. But with the timing advanced, I seem to get a much more dramatic power increase from the higher boost.
Also, the car was having power drop off problems... as in the power curve would drop off after around 5500rpm. Now she pulls like an ox all the way to 7000rpm. It kinda feels like a second boost once I hit 5500rpm.. I believe that is the variable valve timing/second cam etc kicking in... I never got much benefit from those two things without the timing advanced.
And the exhaust note is more... *thinks* gutsy. Not so smooth like a stock lancer with a 3" pipe :D. It has more of a growl to it. Not that the sound makes it go faster but Its just another positive effect:)

Down sides are that it seems to idle worse.. though I was told this would happen so I expected it. The idle is less gutsy and sometimes, the car can even stall... if its a hot day and I have the brakes and power steering and alternator slowing it all down. Rare:). Simple solution is to up the idle speed to maybe 750 or 800rpm rather than the stock 650.

Jon,
Sorry to confuse you.. Yes I was originally using a restrictor which was poor. very poor. Now Im using a bleed to atmosphere. I'll organise some pictures.

timing is adjusted via the round thingie with the pickup thingie .. with three bolts.. on the front of the engine.. you know, where your cam gears would be:) Dont hassle me for not knowing the terminology... I just know how it works and how to make it go faster.. not what its called *chuckles*

Anyway, loosen the bolts.. mine didnt seem to have been moved for a very long time so I needed to use a flat head screwdriver as a lever to break the seal it made over time and loosen it so it could be turned.

Turn clockwise to advance... counter clockwise to retard. Be careful not to move it too much.. Id suggest you do it with a timing light in hand :)

Also, reset your ecu directly after doing so. It definately seems to need to relearn after a dramatic change in timing.

As for the roof insulation stuff.. its called... stuff. Um. Just pop your head into a building supplies place.. I dont know if bunnings exists where you are. Look around the roof insulation section and try find some rolls of silver stuff :D.  Im sorry I cant help you more with that.

Ive found a better solution today anyway. Listen up.
DUCTING SUPAFLEX.
Its basically a flexible tube.. about a foot long that will stretch to 3 metres. Imagine a metal slinkie (you know, the toy) covered in silver pvc type plastic. Its strong, keeps its shape and is very flexible. You know when you go into a building and you see those big round air conditioner pipes? Same thing, only smaller. available in about 80mm diameter to around 150mm diameter at the place I went to (bunnings, once again). I got the big one, 150mm.. and am going to put it like a hat right over the top of my pod filter and tie the other end to the front of the engine bay, directly behind the headlamp... then seal it up with some temperature tollerant sealer.  pictures coming ok?

Im pretty sure it wont melt. I might attack it with a lighter just to make sure. Actually I might attack it with a lighter just for the sake of fun :) :) :)

Dont thank me for my help... this thread you have so wonderfully created has helped me so damn much

Good luck,
-Tristan.



Do I get a prize for writing one of the longest message on this thread???
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 31, 2001, 05:33:27 PM
ok just one thing quickly

to advance timing turn ANTI clockwise
to retard turn CLOCKwise
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 31, 2001, 05:36:06 PM
as for the silver ducting we use it a  lot at work

in nz it is known as spiro flex aluminum ducting. and comes in sizes from 75 mm to 600mm.

in a previous car i used 200 mm ducting and pulled it over the whole pod then turn the duct down into the space inside the guard. worked good but looked real dodgy :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on October 31, 2001, 05:49:04 PM
Woooo Hooooo - Bunnings here I come  :)
Title: timing
Post by: flupstar on October 31, 2001, 07:50:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bizkit
ok just one thing quickly

to advance timing turn ANTI clockwise
to retard turn CLOCKwise



Not insisting that you're wrong, But looking at the engine from the front of the car.. I am somewhat sure it is clockwise to advance. Unless you have one of those reverse clocks like my brother. :)

Is it possible your R32 is different?
Or are you running an RB25 in it?

*confused*

If anyone can shed some more light on this topic, it would be great!
Title: FREE
Post by: flupstar on October 31, 2001, 07:54:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by bizkit
in a previous car i used 200 mm ducting and pulled it over the whole pod then turn the duct down into the space inside the guard. worked good but looked real dodgy :)


Isnt that what this thread is all about? :D

LONG LIVE THE ***FREE*** (and not necessarily cosmetically pleasing) HORSEPOWER thread :hawaii:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bizkit on October 31, 2001, 08:01:52 PM
i am pretty sure it is te opposite to normal clock direction
Title: OOPS
Post by: flupstar on November 02, 2001, 03:03:43 PM
Apologies to you all.
You're right.. Anti clockwise to advance. Im terrible with remembering things backwards. It is disasterous when I forget which way to turn my bleed valve *chuckles*

UPDATE.

Thanks to the free horsepower thread, My car has been turned from a 15 second bus into a 13.8 second (and falling quickly) bundle of fun.

Next week, Im confident I'll be in the low 13s and still it has cost me less than $500. :)

Heres my next little discussion. I think you'll be very interested in this one tinduck. Regarding the bleed valve. I boost lower, the lower my gear. 1st = 9ish psi... 2nd is maybe 11psi... 3rd maybe 12psi.. and 4/5th 14psi. The odd thing is that initially it boosts to 12-14psi in all gears.. but the first few gears drop off in boost as the revs climb. In 4th and 5th, the revs go up slowly so this isnt a problem. I think I might know why. I think the very quick rise in revs is creating a pressure difference between where the nipple on the intake comes off.. feeding to the wastegate... and the actual plenum. I believe the GTR actually has a wastegate line coming directly off, or close to the plenum itself and I think I can see why this would be more accurate and less likely to be interfered with by different driving conditions. At this point, Id just like to note.. if anyone knows better, or can correct me.. please do!

Anyway, Im gonna do a little mod this weekend. Theres a pressure line that comes right off the plenum to the factory bov. Im going to put a T piece in it and run that to the wastegate instead... and block the original line which is further back down the intake. If this works, and I can get 14psi in all gears, I'll be laughing! And seeing as though I know some of you are also having the same problem as me, maybe you'll be laughing too:P
Or maybe I'll blow my car up. In that case only you will be laughing.

BUT ANYWAY.. wish me luck. :D
12 seconds? soon. :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 02, 2001, 03:28:36 PM
Hi all........good to see the forum up and running again......
....I know it's sad, but I've missed it over the last day or so...


Quote
Do I get a prize for writing one of the longest message on this thread???

.........no........:D :D :D

.......keen to hear how the experiment goes with the actuator pipe relocating, Tristan....the theory is sound at least....

Cheers as ever dudes,

Jon.

GO THE FREE HORSEPOWER THREAD!!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on November 02, 2001, 04:52:31 PM
Can not understand the theory too well Tristan.

I fear for the safety of you car! :eek:

Be VERY CAREFUL.

Good ideas but will it achieve anything without damaging anything???????????????

Surely the nipple closest to the Wastegate would be better and if you take a tee junction off the blowoff valve you MAY upset the blowoff valves responsiveness POSSIBLY causing a back flow of pressure to the turbo.......GOODBYE TURBO!

Ask more people first i reckon.

Ben ;)
Title: eek
Post by: flupstar on November 02, 2001, 07:22:32 PM
I considered the possible problems with bleeding off the BOV's line already. I worked it out in my head and ended up being convinced it'd be safe. Though it took a whole night of thinking and I cant quite remember the details anymore hehehe.

naturally I am going to be very careful... run the car at very low boost for starters and make sure the BOV is still opening at those lower boost levels.

part of my theory was that my bleed valve is """"gated"""" (thats how turbosmart like to describe it anyway). basically this means that one end of the valve is restricted down to a tiny little opening, probably less than 1mm in diameter. this is done to increase spooling speed of the turbo and therefore decrease lag... I believe simply by stopping the wastegate from creeping open as quickly. Anyway, theory in my head tells me that the wastegate doesnt actually need a high flow of air to open.. it just needs the pressure... and the """"GATE"""" achieves exactly this by limiting the flow (and also the speed of pressure build up) but at the same time keeping the level of pressure close to what it normally would be without it.

Im sorry if Im just babbling the same B.S. over and over, Im just having trouble trying to put my thoughts into words :P Anyway the whole point of saying this is that if the flow drop/pressure drop caused by bleeding off the BOV's line is very minimal, it shouldnt at all interfere with the BOV's operation. And if it does, I'll just buy an aftermarket BOV that doesnt need one :D. But the factory BOVs seem to open very very easily so it should be ok.

I once accidently forgot to connect up that line from the plenum to the BOV.. the car ran a bit sluggishly but seemed otherwise content. I dont think I can do too much damage.. especially at very low boost, it shouldnt even require operation of the BOV.

as for the theory behind the whole pressure difference in different parts of the intake.. I'll make some effort to explain it better later, maybe with a diagram, if it actually works:)

By the way the nipple closest to the wastegate isnt necessarily better. Remember that in a stock system, the ECU is getting pressure readings from the PLENUM (I think) and then controlling the boost solenoid to suit. When we disconnect that solenoid, our readings are coming directly from where the nipple is, and has less to do with the actual pressure in the plenum. So in that sense, my theory is quite sound. I think. ..... I think.

...
...What was that bang.
Is smoke normal? :laugh:

Thanks for all your input guys. I might sound a bit big headed and critical of your comments.. but you are all really challenging me to think about the theory and stuff behind my ideas, before I actually put them into practice. Perhaps oneday you will save my car from certain death. Keep it up.
-Tristan.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 03, 2001, 05:51:10 AM
Ben: Hi buddy...I think Tristan will be OK moving the pipes to his bleed....
.....taking a T off the BOV line will make no difference really to the operation of the BOV itself.....there will still be plenty vacuum to open it. My boost gauge runs off a T on the same line with no problems....ya just gotta be sensible...

Tristan: as long as you don't leave any pipes hanging off and/or give it seven shades of death down the back roads between "experiments", you shouldn't go far wrong..

.....just a thought though.....you're gonna take a boost feed from the plenum instead of the crossover pipe, hoping to benefit from the slight pressure drop across the system....so you'll need a longer bit of hose to go from the plenum to the valve(even if you T off the BOV line..)....and there will be a similar pressure drop along the length of this line too..........some people get a similar effect by just using 3 metres of hose between the nipple on the x-over pipe and the bleed valve/ actuator. You get a pressure drop across the length of the hose,and nothing needs moving or replumbing........not tried it myself though......

Keep it up dudes,

Jon.

P.S:





Quote
Thanks to the free horsepower thread, My car has been turned from a 15 second bus into a 13.8 second (and falling quickly) bundle of fun.
..........hey Flup, can I quote you on that??:D :D :D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DEVEUS on November 03, 2001, 09:51:43 AM
Hey guys.

Some good points there.  It seems a little clearer now and i think this could all work with fingers crossed.  One thing though.  Isn't the blow off valve working in vacuum and the actuator for the waste gate under pressure hence when the blow off valve opens there is large vacuum but the actuator needs pressure to open??????????  Just a thought - i'll wait and see what you come up with.  It's all starting to clog my tiny brain - aahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh :eek: :eek: :laugh:

seeya guys

Ben
Title: Timing
Post by: MAGN1T on November 03, 2001, 10:45:55 AM
My understanding of timing on modern cars is that you leave it alone. Its controlled by the ECU via the knock sensor. The ECU keeps it at its optimum setting. Sure you can advance it, get knock then find that the ECU cannot retard it enough to stop knock, then what happens? As for me well I've never touched the timing on my car.

Steve
Title: more..
Post by: flupstar on November 04, 2001, 01:12:20 AM
Jon,
The length of the hose did enter my mind. The GTS-T is a lucky car in my mind, as the wastegate line usually doesnt need to be more than a foot long.. but in most other cars, its normal to expect a couple or few feet. I have talked to people who ran the line all the way into the dash so they could adjust in the car and -that- was too long, but I think 2 or 3 feet should be fine.

plus:

if you think about it.. my problem is that my wastegate is opening according to what the intake pressure is GOING TO BE... ie, the nipple is back down the intake away from the plenum.

With the new setup.. it'll be measuring from what the pressure currently is.. and then with the extra hose length, the final result will be a reading of what the boost WAS, a small moment ago. Totally opposite so Im expecting maybe a small bit of somewhat controlled overboost.

Hows this for a theory...
Consider that boost pressure takes the same time to advance along the intake as it does to advance down a vacuum hose. If we therefore set it up so that the wastegate line came off the intake... "x" inches from the plenum... where "x" is also the LENGTH of the wastegate line... then in theory.. the wastegate should be opening the correct amount at the correct time.

And obviously, the shorter "x" were to be, the more responsive the car would be and also, in my experience, the boost would be more controlled and have less of a tendancy to overboost for a second.

If my theory were for some reason to be correct, then this would explain the GTS-T's imbalance with a bleed valve. Cause the wastegate line is less than a foot, yet it is perhaps 2-3 feet from the plenum.

Think about it.
And if I quite simply confused you.. dont worry. I still dont understand what Im typing myseld :D

As for the timing.. as far as my brain works, though I may be wrong, it'd seem to me that the ECU will only adjust the timing a certain maximum amount in either direction.. hence still being to make it ping with advanced timing, even with the ECU doing its part. Therefore Id assume that playing with the timing on computer controlled cars simply adjusts the -range- of timing that the car will be running on.. and is therefore still an effective way of 'tuning' the car for performance.

Who knows:)

Jon, yes, you can quote what I said about the 1/4 times. I can even scan the slip they gave me... but that'd probably be pointless as I hope to be running 13.5 or lower this wednesday :)

I took the car the week before, -before- I had done any mods (spare my dodgy pressure restricting boost control valve) and my best time was 14.9.. average was 15 to 15.5.

Im actually really proud of what Ive learnt and done to the car. There was another R33 down there... same equipment (pod filter, bleed valve.. he also had a GOOD cold air partition which I didnt have (still working on a better one, I ripped my current one out before the races))... and he couldnt crack the 14s.

I bought another toy today. I noticed that almost every single 10 second skyline in the country uses an XF falcon throttle body. So I bought one from a parts recycler. It actually looks like it might bolt straight on (hence the common conversion) but of course, flow much better than the standard unit. I'll need adapters for the hoses though, mismatching sizes. And Im not too sure about the sensor unit on the side.. whether the nissan one will fit straight on or whether I have to mod it. If anyone does know anything about this conversion, please do speak up :)
I'll let you all know how I go.

Keep all that input coming... tomorrow is my work on car day *excited*
Title: Wastegate Plumbing
Post by: Wowcar on November 04, 2001, 09:35:57 AM
Hi Guys,
The wastegate is set up to open at a much lower pressure than what the factory ECU allows in boost pressure. This gives the boost control pressure selenoid scope to modulate the boost pressure throughout the rev range, and hence we have a boost curve. Think now where does the ECU measure the boost from ?
 the wee hose coming off the back of the Plenum chamber right next to the brake booster vacuum take off. Why does the wastegate take its feed from the cross-over pipe, because when the throttle shuts you have vacuum in the plenum which will lift the BOV and positive pressure bettween the compressor wheel and the throttle plate. If you connected the wastegate to the plenu it would be held tight shut by the vacuum on close throttle which could cause some problems! If you want more boost you can use a bleed off valve as long as you stay within the confines of the std boost cut.
Title: lala
Post by: flupstar on November 05, 2001, 12:47:27 AM
Wowcar, you bring up some interesting points. And you also bring up one or two things that go way over my head hehee.

Keep in mind that most of us arent using the factory solenoid.

I think I see what you're saying about the wastegate slamming shut when the pressure opens the BOV on gearchange etc. I'll chew it over in my brain for a while.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 21, 2001, 10:25:56 AM
What can I say???

IT'S BACK !!!!!!!!

hehehe.......
....I might have to celebrate.....let me see....Hmmmmm.....maybe posting plans for a Free cold air partition..........Hmmmmm....



laters

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ethan_R33 on November 21, 2001, 10:34:38 AM
HAHAHA,
youre back home ay tinduck????
Maybe youll hafta list ALL the free mods so we can remember what they all were????

just an idea.....:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 21, 2001, 12:06:25 PM
Ethan: ....erm, NO.....:D

Wowcar: valid point about the vacuum after throttle-off....Tristan beware dude.....

Flupstar: NOW you win the longest post prize   hehehe

Cheers as ever all,

Jon.

GO SDU!!
GO PH !!!
GO THE FREE MOD THREAD!!!
Title: Re: diagnostics.....
Post by: [TWUBLE] on November 21, 2001, 03:49:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
.......(this is not my own work...think I got it elsewhere on this site or similar)

.......you must have found the ecu to cut the limiter wire, so while you are there, remove the three bolts securing it to the bulkhead, floor and lower dash.......carefully wiggle the ecu from it's position....don't damage the loom.....

........turn the ecu around....the face furthest from the wires has a small dial and a LED....( later models have 2 led's)

.......find a screwdriver small enough to turn the small dial...

......take a deep breath.....

......turn the ignition on ( but don't start the engine )

.....the red LED will start to glow...

.......CAREFULLY turn the small dial CLOCKWISE fully...

......the LED will go off......

......then turn the LED fully anticlockwise......

......the LED will start to flash.....

......long flashes then short, repeatedly, 'til you switch off the ignition or start the car....if the sequence is five long then five short flashes, the code is 55, which means all is OK...3 long then 4 short means a faulty knock sensor....if you get anything different, tell me , and I will post the whole set of error messages...

........here's hoping for a 55...

 .....Jon.


Is this the same for an R32? Also where is the %^&#*@% ECU in an R32 I CANT FIND IT!! ( i think its been chipped but dunno how to tell, can anyone help with that one?)
As for mods.... *rolls out list* If you have a pod filter, try and creat a duct or box around it sheilding it from the engine itself... (seems to reduce the heat around the filter, thus meaning cooler air) run the duct from the front right left hand corner in your bumper (passanger side) when driving youll get FORCED cold air going up to the filter where the lil baby can do its work... works well on mine! ( even noticed a slight differnce... better pedal response.)

PLUGS! If youve done pretty much ANY mods its a good idea to go to that 0.80mm GAP Plugs.. I recommend NGK (their in my r32) and they do damn nicely! Also myte wanna consider using better leads aswell!! (only makes a very slight difference but a difference nonne the less!)

As for intercooler spray and knock sensor.. sorry cant help there!
Title: Re: Wastegate Plumbing
Post by: [TWUBLE] on November 21, 2001, 04:00:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Wowcar
Hi Guys,
The wastegate is set up to open at a much lower pressure than what the factory ECU allows in boost pressure. This gives the boost control pressure selenoid scope to modulate the boost pressure throughout the rev range, and hence we have a boost curve. Think now where does the ECU measure the boost from ?
 the wee hose coming off the back of the Plenum chamber right next to the brake booster vacuum take off. Why does the wastegate take its feed from the cross-over pipe, because when the throttle shuts you have vacuum in the plenum which will lift the BOV and positive pressure bettween the compressor wheel and the throttle plate. If you connected the wastegate to the plenu it would be held tight shut by the vacuum on close throttle which could cause some problems! If you want more boost you can use a bleed off valve as long as you stay within the confines of the std boost cut.


Is it a good idea changing the factory solenoid? If so how do i do it and how do i know it hasnt been done already (recently bought the car!)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on November 21, 2001, 11:25:01 PM
Ok PPls..

For Around town driving when sitting in traffic...

Intercooler----

Slap A Flan on the back of it and suck the air through....

Surley this would probably suck more air through say a stock R32 item as the air intake isn't that big.
Maybe a Fan At the Lights with a bottle of water pumping in to it...
Or would it restrict the flow to much?

Cold Air Intake---

Grab a couple of the biggest 12v computer fans u can find (100cfm+) and some how change the cold air snorke in to two and slap the fans in there so at the lights the colder air is pumped in to the air box.
Obviously run them parallel... :)

I seem to have this fetish about adding fans to everything..
After Reading over the post i have just made it also looks like i have a fetish about adding multiple full stops to every sentence....
Title: Re: Re: diagnostics.....
Post by: [TWUBLE] on November 22, 2001, 09:07:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by [TWUBLE]


Is this the same for an R32? Also where is the %^&#*@% ECU in an R32 I CANT FIND IT!! ( i think its been chipped but dunno how to tell, can anyone help with that one?)
As for mods.... *rolls out list* If you have a pod filter, try and creat a duct or box around it sheilding it from the engine itself... (seems to reduce the heat around the filter, thus meaning cooler air) run the duct from the front right left hand corner in your bumper (passanger side) when driving youll get FORCED cold air going up to the filter where the lil baby can do its work... works well on mine! ( even noticed a slight differnce... better pedal response.)

PLUGS! If youve done pretty much ANY mods its a good idea to go to that 0.80mm GAP Plugs.. I recommend NGK (their in my r32) and they do damn nicely! Also myte wanna consider using better leads aswell!! (only makes a very slight difference but a difference nonne the less!)

As for intercooler spray and knock sensor.. sorry cant help there!


*slaps himself* haha disregard the leads...  sheesh im way too tired :(
Title: Re: Re: Re: diagnostics.....
Post by: [TWUBLE] on November 22, 2001, 09:16:14 AM
Hey, Can anyone tell me why my cars boost drops right off in 5th?
In most of the gears my boost is about the same (12-13psi) (hard to tell exactly on standard boost guage) but in 5th its about 7-8psi!! :((( is this normal? if so is there a way i can get it to boost 12-13psi throughout the gears? :mad:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 22, 2001, 01:28:02 PM
TWUBLE: Hi again dude and welcome.......

Please please please stop "quoting" whole posts......is gives me an unnerving sense of deja-vu..........;)

Joel: Hi there......you ARE fan-crazy, aren't you? .....there's nothing wrong with getting a little cold air blown around here and there, but think about it.....why would you want more air blown into the intake on TICKOVER.........and why would you want a few extra brake horse at 500 rpm....????

......keep thinking though dudes....don't let little me p1ss on your chips.......

PEACE LOVE AND HORSEPOWER

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on November 22, 2001, 01:33:02 PM
TINDUCK hehe sorry man... damn draw pad is a bit fidly to use sometimes here at work! :headbutt:

...Can ANYONE please tell me why the boost drops off so much in 5th?
Is this normal? if so can i change it to boost the same throughtout the gears?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 22, 2001, 01:46:12 PM
hehehe you're forgiven dude....as for the boost....not got a clue....but you can bet someone round here will.....

laters

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on November 22, 2001, 01:46:29 PM
The fan on the intercooler thing may be a good idea.

I know this is a simple and effective mod on the Celica GT4 becuase of poor air flow over the cooler at low speeds and while stopped.

But their intercooler is on top of the motor and sufferes from heat soak pretty badly.

Worth a try if you've got one laying around I suppose.

J
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on November 22, 2001, 01:51:34 PM
WOOOOHOOOO I HAVE EXCERCISED THE DAEMONS!!!! :dfinger: (oh god too much ace ventura i think!)
TINDUCK :D

as for my boosty.. well.. :(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 22, 2001, 01:59:35 PM
.....exOrcised  surely  dude........

hehehehehehe

laters

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on November 22, 2001, 02:03:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
.....exOrcised  surely  dude........
Jon.


haha yeah that too!!!
Oh man... i saw an R33 GTR today parked up next to my car... first time id been that close to an R33 GTR (only seen them from a big distance or from behind haha) I must say they are damn sexy!!!!

k now bak to the Freehorsepower stuff...surely you wouldnt need fans blowing into your induction... specially not on idle... I wouldnt think building a nice duct from the front guards to the filter would be more than sufficient! :mexican:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ned on November 22, 2001, 05:25:16 PM
HI all,
      Autospeed looked at this issue cos there is a product sold to do this. There description of intakes sounds pretty good technically;


...."The amount of air that flows into the cylinder, compared with the cylinder volume, is called the engine's breathing - or volumetric - efficiency. In a 3 litre six cylinder engine, each cylinder has a swept volume of 500cc. If the cylinder breathes in only 400cc on the intake stroke, the engine is said to have an 80 per cent volumetric efficiency (ie 400/500 = 0.8 or 80 per cent). Volumetric efficiency will depend on lots of factors (including how well the ports flow), but let's say that the VE of the example engine is in fact 80 per cent. If this 3 litre engine is revving at 6000 rpm full throttle, this means that it inhales 7200 litres of air per minute (remember, one intake stroke per two rpm), or 120 litres per second. To put it in different units, each minute this engine consumes 254 cubic feet of air. To put that into context, a little 60mm diameter PC cooling fan flows only about 18 cubic feet per minute. So, just to flow the amount of air that this naturally aspirated, 3 litre engine needs, you'd need an array of fourteen 60mm fans working flat-out. And that's without creating any boost at all...."

http://www.autospeed.com/A_0237/P_1/article.html

I guess what they are saying is that fans for intakes dont really add much. The idea of using them to cool the coola is a goody!:licklips:

PS - all copyright yada yada owned by autospeed etc etc (does that cover it ?):confused:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on November 22, 2001, 05:32:42 PM
God don't let the Riceboy's know that about the fans......

I can see it now, Excel's driving around with 20 computer fans mounted on the grill :laugh: :dfinger: :laugh: :dfinger: :laugh: :dfinger: :laugh: :dfinger:
Title: more rice
Post by: flupstar on November 22, 2001, 06:48:13 PM
I can see it now. neon tubes attached to the fins of electric fans, spinning around creating an in cabin, under car and under bonnet funky disco in all the colours of the rainbow.

Did you know all about the cooling properties of the colour blue? *mocking tone*

hehe
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on November 23, 2001, 09:09:46 AM
Can anyone tell me why my boosts 12-13psi in most gears except 4th and 5th? blatting it in 5th and i only boost about 8psi!! :(
Is this normal? If so is there anyway I can change it to boost the same throughout the gears?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on November 23, 2001, 11:32:30 AM
Get an aftermarket boost gauge before you do anything else. . The factory one is probably a bit slow to react in the lower gears.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on November 25, 2001, 08:38:29 AM
Were back!!!

What free horsepower mods have been invented without the help of the forums???

Flupstar'n'Jay95R33, sooo funny "....the cooling powers of the colour blue...." hehe :laugh:

I wonder what would happen if you had a geared fan to run off the crank? Hmmmmmm (with blue lights around it of course).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 25, 2001, 10:49:44 AM
Aha!!!!! At last, some common sense to help guide this poorly thread back to it's righteous path.......Hi 4nick8 dude!!!!!

Hmmmmm....induction fans driven from the crank.....sounds good....sounds super in fact.......forcing the air charge into the motor.......perhaps we should call it.......Hmmmmmmmmm......








.......a Supercharger...........

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe

welcome back buddy

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on November 28, 2001, 04:10:49 PM
Come on guys - don't let this thread die - We've just hit 20 pages....

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on November 28, 2001, 06:25:58 PM
I've got a new free horsepower tip (well, unless it was mentioned on pages 3 - 18 :laugh: )

I saw in an old article of zoom that if you remove the screens (with a screwdrive or something) from the front and rear of the airflow meter, you can increase the airflow through it by a few percent, for the same airflow reading to the computer.

This will partially correct the overly rich mixture and conservative timing of the factory ECU maps, particularly when running higher than standard boost. The also said that this mod should give an r32 GTst an extra few kilowatts (4-5?) at the treads.

You'd probably want to check a mod like this out on a dyno afterwards, to make sure you aren't bringing on detonation, but what do you guys think? The mod would cost nothing and take about 1/2hr if you had no clue.

Also - they said that some early r32's had an adjustment screw on the side of their AFM, so you could turn the signal up and down - on a dyno that would be an more accurate way to get the same affect.

So tell us what you think - I'd love to know as I'm up for a dyno session in the next couple of days.

240ZT :zball:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GT-R Ben on November 29, 2001, 02:15:38 AM
It is a bad idea to remove the mesh from the AFM. As mario pointed out, it allows the air to be distrubed throughout the pipe for an accurate air flow reading.. if it did nothing... why would it be there from factory..??

Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on November 29, 2001, 08:21:29 AM
Actually, I thought the mesh was there so that some dumb dumb doesnt touch the inside bits.

Its much to easy to accidentally drop screw into the afm of put a finger in it without the mesh there.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 29, 2001, 09:03:45 AM
Hi dudes.......

Mesh issues: Mario has got me worried 'cos he knows his stuff,and says NEVER remove the mesh...it's there to disrupt the flow....but from what I can work out, the car should if anything run a little richer with the mesh out.....Here's hoping for a little more help from Mario on this one........

(I had to remove my mesh to fit my cone filter......I thought it was only there to prevent damage to the sensor inside...)

Quote
Come on guys - don't let this thread die - We've just hit 20 pages....

........(it was over 30 pages before the forums went down.....must be longer pages this time round)
.......Don't worry.....fat chance of this thread dying whilst there are people out there with Skylines and ideas....and me with nothing better to do with my life :D :D :D  )


Newsflash:  FINALLY GOT MY BABY BACK!!!!!!!!
(Which makes me kinda happy)
6 weeks waiting for the dealers to source me a heater matrix,then giving up and getting one myself from Nissan Japan over the internet(All Hail the Internet!!!)
....So, finally got a chance today to drive the thing properly for the first time since I did the cold air intake mod (see earlier)......and it goes like a bl00dy dream.....picks up far better, and keeps on pulling through the rev range.......Very very big happy smiles at the moment......

Anyways,
how are You lot doing??

Laters all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on November 29, 2001, 09:04:06 AM
240Z nice thinking but unfortunately thats not a way to achieve it... :(

As mario said earlier (think this is in another thread) that the mesh is there to disrupt the airflow (or disturb) much like the mesh in the tap at your home.... works on the same principal (that no  matter what the airflow is it still takes up the whole of the pipe....

C'mon guys there must be some more tips! There has to be someone(s) out there withholding some backyard secretes!!!! (hopefully taken not too literalllly!)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on November 29, 2001, 09:15:38 AM
TINDUCK RACING - Hey how did you make your cold air box thingie for your cone filter... or moreso the partition... (yeah yeah yeah i know we've been over this ahh)
thanks :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 29, 2001, 09:44:51 AM
TWUBLE: see page 17 dude...........

:D :D :D

laters

Jon.
Title: More DIY boost options
Post by: Ned on November 29, 2001, 10:03:54 AM
Hi TDR,
           good to see that you are still keeping the FHP thread running, it dropped off the 1st page for a while.

Doing web searchs for boost controls:licklips: , I came across a good site with a bunch of DIY options, some well known, plus a few left field options to prevent overboosting, 2 stage boosting etc. :idea: :idea: :idea:

http://www.xmission.com/~dempsey/perform/

Well written articles too.

Ned
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 30, 2001, 09:42:30 AM
Ned: Hi dude and thanks for the link......BTW what mods have you got at the moment???

thanks,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on November 30, 2001, 10:48:52 AM
240ZT - Nice suggestion, it's good that people can bring these ideas to the open to have them discussed by skylin nuts.  Nice one on the choice of car and motor (go the repowers!!!!!).

The airflow is a a 'hot' one and gets damaged real easy.  Perhaps the small increase in power can also be done cheaply by upgrading the entire airflow meter to a 300zx once.  I have no idea why this is, it just seems to be the airflow meter of choice for the mod-mad people in all the 'shiney bits' car mags.

Hope'n to get the giganto K&N into my almost completed airbox made almost totally from sparkley tread plate.  Pics to follow, watch this space. :p
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on November 30, 2001, 10:52:24 AM
ooooh tinky!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 30, 2001, 12:36:43 PM
4nick: Ooooooohhhh treadplate......very sexay......

....here's hopin' you're usin' the ally stuff and not the real steel stuff hehehe.....( or are you thinkin' of uprating your N/S/F suspension to cope wit' the extra weight? )

:D :D :D

....waiting for the pictures dude,

take care buddy,

Jon.

PS: 300ZX AFM: why is it a good thing? ....Answers on a postcard please dudes........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: OOHSAM on November 30, 2001, 09:06:26 PM
Hey guys
before i start  ...
... - Nice threard! - ...

any way, the 300zx AFM is apparantly better (only the TT 300zx) cause its a twin turbo and is a bit more sensative. i have heard of ppl using it in the skylines cuase it senses a more precise air flow mixture...oh and as for the mesh thingys infront of the airflow meter - DONT REMOVE THEM!. its pretty dangerous.

im not sure about the 300zx airflow meter theory but it seems to sound pretty logical....

Sam
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 01, 2001, 11:49:20 AM
OK then dudes.......

1) dumbass question: does the 300ZX T/T have one or two AFMs?

2) how exactly would one help on the R33GTS25T......better flow, or different signal to the ECU?

3) My inlet mesh to the AFM has been removed to fit the cone filter......and the car pulls much better than ever before......and WDracing among other people have removed the mesh with no apparent downsides.....yet Mario and others insist that removing the mesh prevents the disruption of laminar flow through the unit...with potentially disastrous results from weakening the mixture........so is it safe or not, and does the prescence of the cone filter directly before the AFM cause the same or similar turbulence effects to the mesh?

4) Basic fluid dynamics dictates that removing the mesh will stop turbulence inside the AFM, promoting laminar flow through the unit.....and as a result, the column of air travelling through the centre of the tube will be moving faster than the air at the edges....and by definition will be moving faster than the avarage speed of air through the unit......therefore the airflow sensor, in the MIDDLE of the airflow, will be detecting more air than there actually is, and should surely tell the ECU to fuel accordingly......causing the car to run RICHER, and not leaner....

(I hope that someone out there knows more about this stuff than I do, and can prove me wrong on this point)

Here's hoping for a little expert input here dudes, as this little "free mod" is getting a bit more involved than slapping on a big pod filter........

PEACE, LOVE AND FREE HORSEPOWER,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on December 01, 2001, 01:32:58 PM
Hey Jon,

As far as I know the 300zx unit is 80mm as opposed to the GST-t which is 68mm (or somewhere around there). Bigger diameter = better flow. You can't just change to the larger and expect your car to run though, as the 300 unit will be supplying alot more air for the same flow rate as the smaller unit, meaning your car will run really lean. I know the Power FC has a simple option to select the 300zx unit and automatically adjusts to suit.

Anyway it's good to be on the old thread again.:D

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on December 01, 2001, 01:34:05 PM
Wooooo Hoooooo 500 posts........

OK, last night I couldn't sleep, so instead of getting up and watching TV I thought of an idea for the Skyline.

Most of us have disconnected the factory boost solenoid, which we all know bleeds air at 4500rpm.

Well I was thinking of using that output (the solenoid gets a signal from the ECU at 4500rpm), and use it with a intercooler spayer unit.

So instead of the spayer turning on as soon as you come on boost, which most of the time for me is below 4500rpm, and wasting water, it would come on above 4500rpm.

So sedate driving when you didn't need the sprayer it doesn't turn on, but give it a bit of foot (above 4500rpm) and on it comes.

It would be real easy to make up a simple relay to hold the signal high for about 5-10 seconds after it's been triggered (gear changes, and to cool it down after).

So what do you think???  Was I just dreaming or what???

Oh BTW TINDUCK - man, you spun me out with all the tech jargon in your last post - but it makes sence.

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 01, 2001, 01:53:07 PM
MFX: Welcome home dude......and thanx 4 the info.

Jay: Good idea, but if you refer back to 4nick8's link WAAAAY back in this litle ol' thread to intercooler water sprays,you will see that the spray cooling is most effective if triggered BEFORE boost situations, so that the intercooler is already cooled before the air passes through it.......it makes sense if you think about it......

Hmmmmmm....maybe the solenoid could be used to trigger a "BYE BYE WRX" sign in the back window on full revs.......:D :D :D :D :D



Thanks all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 03, 2001, 09:04:52 AM
..............or trigger a seventh injector maybe?


Hmmmmmmmm...........


laters

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 03, 2001, 09:39:19 AM
Jay, yea we spent a good 5 or 6 pages trying to work out the best way to intercool spray.  After loads of research and much discussion the best way to do it was to fit a cheap heat switch (available from most Electrical bits shops), before the intercooler (somewhere on the pipeing), that will trigger the water nozzle to spray over the intercooler as soon as it detects heat in the intercooler chamber.  There is some maths to this I think, check http://www.autospeed.com

Jon, A 7th injector??  That's a geneus idea, and lets 'for the hell of it' call it a "cold start injector".  Who knows, it might just be such a good idea manufacturers might start fitting it to almost all late 80's small 4's (like 4agze's perhaps???).  Doub't that'd be very handy in the 'too rich' argument though.

How about going to a wreckers and buying a cheap 'out-of-the-tank' fuel pump for a reasonable size V8, and plumbing that directly into the fuel line, running through the factory pump?  Anyone?

:idea:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 03, 2001, 12:16:54 PM
Quote
, A 7th injector?? That's a geneus idea, and lets 'for the hell of it' call it a "cold start injector". Who knows, it might just be such a good idea manufacturers might start fitting it to almost all late 80's small 4's

:D :D :D :D :D hehehe I'm so glad the irony isn't completely wasted around here.....

Seriously though,the cold start valves usually supply extra juice only until the motor reaches a preset temperature....then do nothing.....but Turbotechnics for instance have re-wired them in the past to supply a little extra fuelling at full throttle/boost to prevent leaning out. I know the RB tends to run rich,but I thought that was at lower revs, not at full chat.(correct me please:) )

Anyway buddy, why only 1/4 of a mk1??

take care

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 03, 2001, 12:18:33 PM
......and what's all this about a second fuel pump?:confused:


:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 03, 2001, 12:22:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING

Anyway buddy, why only 1/4 of a mk1??


That was a moral low point when I realized how far I have to go on my MK1.  Spent last week puhing it on and off traliers around town.  Shelled out almost 1000 notes on stainless bits last week.  Still so much to do :(  Still gotta do some work on the frount mount intercooler.  And then, just when I'm happily driving it, I'm gonna have to take it all to bits to get it painted.  I don't really ever expect to be finished.  Repowers are so much work.... wish I'd never started, could've spent all the cash on a skyline or something.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 03, 2001, 12:28:21 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
......and what's all this about a second fuel pump?:confused:
:)


Just heard some of the crowd up in Auckland are doing it.  Makes sense really, about $120 for a good fuel pump, so long as you can plumb it in your self it save forking out heaps for a GTR pump.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 03, 2001, 01:09:21 PM
4nick: are we talking in series or in parallel to the existing pump here?

thanks,

Jon.
Title: thermo wraps
Post by: [TWUBLE] on December 03, 2001, 01:12:45 PM
Hey, I know this has been said alot around here... (well i imagine it has prolly in this thread aswelll).
Was driving around in the w/end and noticed the i/c pipes to the throttle body wer HOT as HELL!! When i blatently noticed that the pipe runs accross the top of the engine... (kinda defeats the purpose the i/c dont ya think?) I went to Crowley Racing Developments and grabbed some nice thermo wrapping.... (not sure what kind it is) and put about 3 layers around ALL the pipes... actually noticed a big difference once the car is warmed up abit.. the boost comes on a bit stronger and sustains alot smoother... overall it was a pretty cheap deal (bout 15-20 for the roll of thermo wrap) and made a difference... could be a good idea :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 03, 2001, 01:28:47 PM
Anything that is hot to the touch is by definition giving out heat, i.e: cooling down. Are you not just keeping the heat in the pipe by wrapping it, rather than letting it escape into the air?

I know this stuff works well on exhausts, where the temperatures are much higher, and it is good to keep this heat from the engine bay, but maybe the inlet charge is actually hotter than the under-hood air,so if anything you want to be helping it radiate, not sealing it in.....

Just a thought ;)

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on December 03, 2001, 01:31:10 PM
damn... didnt think about that... hrmmm i wonder if there is a way to test the temperature in that pipe right there by the inlet and see what the difference is i have made...
anyone?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 03, 2001, 01:36:32 PM
...hehe you might be right, I might be wrong......best get a cheap thermometer with a remote sensor....like those outside ice warning jobbies.....and do a little trial. I am going to use one to see what actual difference my cold partition is making under different driving conditions...

....and don't go covering your I/C in wrap just 'cos it gets a little warm either hehehe

laters dude,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on December 03, 2001, 01:38:47 PM
thanks jon :)
just got off the phone to crowley racing in glenfield... gonna go round there tonight and do a temp test with and without the wraps and see what the difference is...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 03, 2001, 01:45:41 PM
you should be able to remove the big rubber hose between the throttle body and the crossover pipe, and temporarily dangle the sensor in there, reconnect the hose, and go for a run. Put the readout in the cabin to keep an eye on the temp, and do another run with the sensor just detecting underhood temps......doesn't matter if the wrap is on or not....it's just to see if the underhood air is hotter or colder than the intake charge under driving conditions....

.....just pray the sensor doesn't get sucked into the motor hehe

laters

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on December 03, 2001, 01:48:06 PM
hahah yeah... myte try running a wire in one side and out the other and securing the senser in the middle then dangle that thru... see if that works..
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 03, 2001, 01:50:40 PM
.......post the results dude....it'll make interesting reading.......

laters,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: qik_30x on December 04, 2001, 11:21:08 PM
about the intercooler pipe running onto of the engine - why dont you put a few layers of that thermo wrap between the engine and the intercooler pipes?

that way the heat will stay in the engine and the pipes will be cooler cause there wont be heat radiating onto them. also the pipes will be out in the open to cool them selves better.

steve :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 05, 2001, 09:15:06 AM
My latest scheme is to buy a second hand plenum and remove the outlet that runs across the top of the engine and have it fitted to the front of the plenum so I can run the intercooler piping (for the front mount) straight from the plenum past the left edge of the radiator, then down to the intercooler.  This is opposed to the common piping done when a new intercooler is fitted where by the pipeing is bent at about 90 degrees just by the carbon canister (after the "ceramic turbo" lettering) and then runs all the way across the front of the motor (above the crank fan) the around the radiator (almost a 180 degree turn) to the intercooler.  This also gives me a chance to get the blanked plenum outlets to the carbon canister to be weilded up and the whole thing ported and polished.  This of course requires two things, a spare plenum and a $1200 intercooler......but otherwise it's pretty much free....:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rbZ on December 05, 2001, 09:24:26 AM
sounds cool!
make sure you keep us posted about how it goes. I've been wondering if that was possible.

I thought that perhaps it wasn't done because of the low volume of the rb20/rb25 plenums. There may not be enough volume to ensure even air distribution to each cylinder or something.

Does anyone know of a cheap aftermarket front facing plenum, or another alternative? I really hate the extra metre of plumbing in my car too - I swear it's the reason I've got lag!

rbZ
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 05, 2001, 09:34:52 AM
I remember reading once that a 90 degree bend is the same as adding 1.6 meters of straight pipe to your intercooler system, and a 45 was something like a metre, or there abouts.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on December 05, 2001, 11:08:21 AM
It is possible to modify the factory plenum(http://www.autospeed.com/image.html?A=0964&P=2&IMG=0964_5&REZ=hi&LOC=%2Fimages) I'm not sure if this image is going to work but it's from an article in autospeed on a R33 GTS-t. They had cut off the throttle body from one side and welded a plate over the hole, then just cut a hole and welded it to the other end.

I was going to get this done to my car aswell, but I now have a custom plenum being made.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 05, 2001, 11:24:12 AM
Quote
This of course requires two things, a spare plenum and a $1200 intercooler......but otherwise it's pretty much free...

........hehe so much for doing nothing to your work hack whilst the twincharged is born..........:D

Anyway dude.....feel up to planning a FMIC for next to nothing? And sharing it with us? hehehe.......

thanks as ever,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 05, 2001, 11:25:00 AM
I want one!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 05, 2001, 11:27:48 AM
:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: OOHSAM on December 05, 2001, 12:32:57 PM
Yeah guyz,

What youre talking about is truly possible, and is already being done, i took my skyline to a work shop (cant remember the name but i know how to get there!) and they qoted me about 800 bux to modify my plenum, and relocate the throttle body. apparantly its been done heaps b4 and had some out standing results.

When asking another very intellegeing and jap familiar mechanic he told me it was bull Sh1t and was a waste of time. He told me "nissan probably spent hundreds of millions of dollars with engineers to get the design right and why would go and change it." i simply argued that the GTR's (which come with a factory front mount of course) have this setup and since you are changing to frount mount then why not?

Im not too sure now about this mod but my mate has done it and swears by it.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on December 05, 2001, 01:30:59 PM
I think you would have to flow test it to find out for sure.

And I would say the GTR one has been designed to be fed from the front, not like the GTS-t's that were designed to flow from the center.

Remember that air will flow simular to water flow.  So if it is end fed, the port/cylinder at the end (furthest from the inlet) will get the highest presure, and therefore each cylinder might be seeing different air/fuel ratios (????).

Now I'm sure that the GTR one was designed to over come this.

It was explained really well in Zoom (???) when they did a twin throttle body setup on a Excel (not meaning to compare the two :D  ).

Food for thought

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 05, 2001, 09:07:34 PM
GTR has six throttle bodies does it not? I guess this would help overcome the problem.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on December 06, 2001, 11:03:46 AM
These points are ture, but remember the factory unit is center fed and the center 2 ports will more than likely recieve a much better airflow  compared to the ends. Food for thought:)

Jeff
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 06, 2001, 11:23:07 AM
I think if the GTR's can pull it off, then so can I damn it!  I also think of the serious volumes of air passing through the plenum that even at high revs the difference between the 1st and 6th cylinder would be negligable.  I'd image that it'd be a small sacrifice, moving from between the 3rd and 4th (across the top of the motor) to moving it to the front of the plenum with a much larger intercooler.  I intend to give it a crack and see anyway.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on December 06, 2001, 11:28:43 AM
I have heard of it being done on a few cars and havn't heard about any problems with it.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on December 06, 2001, 11:48:46 AM
but larger airflows should make the difference between cylinders larger rather than smaller shouldn't it?

The idea of a plenum is that inside it velocity effects are negligable, and the entire chamber is at the same pressure, in order to get an even flow of fluid through several outlets in the plenum.

That isn't the case in one of these plenums - if you've got a 2.5 L motor doing 6'000rpm, with an 80% VE ratio and 1 bar of boost, then there's 200 Litres per second of air passing through that little chamber (at a guess - maybe 2 litres of capacity on my rb20?). The only way I could see even pressures reaching each of the cylinders is that maybe the internal shape of the plenum is designed to direct air evenly to each runner.

In which case, if you changed from centre throttle to side throttle you'd change the flow directions heaps, and hence the pressure in each runner.

So the design of the plenum will be critical to ensure an even distribution of air to each cylinder, and if the air distribution isn't even you'll end up with one cylinder running lean while others run rich.

Sub Zero on the Gold Coast make front facing plenums for rb20/25's, and their ones are 5.7 Litres in volume and have trumpets inside them to reduce the velocity problems. Unfortunately they're pretty expensive, otherwise I'd have one ($1100 for plenum, xf falcon throttle body and injector rail). But it gives you an idea of how much trouble it is to get it right.

Is there anyone on this list who can weld aluminium? Does anyone want to see how much a small batch of front facing plenums would be to get made up? If we did the design, cut and bent the sheets and then got someone to weld them up they shouldn't cost too much.

240 :zball: T
:evil:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 06, 2001, 11:57:15 AM
Hi all......
        .....interesting arguments and concerns from both sides on this point.Just thought I'd poke my nose in and stir things up a bit :D

     Anyways,I think it's more to do with vacuum/pressure than flow.....as the plenum is quite a large capacity vessel.On tickover , the vacuum should be pretty consistent within the chamber,and under boost, the pressure within the enclosure should also be constant.
     (look up plenum in the dictionary)

    So it shouldn't matter where the air enters the plenum, as the whole purpose of the large chamber is to equalise the vacuum or pressure across it's volume. (As opposed to just having six tubes going from the throttle body to the head.)

     
    Anyways, this is all pretty pointless to me, because as you know by now, if the conversion costs any more than a 6pack,I can't afford it hehehe:D :D :D

Keep up the good work dudes,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 06, 2001, 12:12:50 PM
Sounds like Tinduck needs a new job, or perhaps to win some money from somewhere.  Worth mentioning here is stealing ATM's with a flat deck truck is easier to get away with, and the penalty when you get caught is less than if you were to rob a bank the old fashioned way.  Though wasn't the some famous postal burglar guy in your area a few years back?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 06, 2001, 12:47:14 PM
hehehehehehehehehe.............

4nick: Nah, if I was loaded,I'd still do things the cheapest way possible dude........guess I'm just a tight git.......

240ZT: oops.....must have posted at the same time....I didn't see your post before I replied, and I must admit your argument blows mine right out the water :dozey:
(shuffles off to keep his dumbass thoughts to himself)

laters mod people,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on December 06, 2001, 01:00:26 PM
Well - my arguments are just speculation so far - I couldn't be bothered actually testing my theory!

But if people have done the front facing throttle conversion, and then measured the air/fuel ratios at each exhaust port and found them to be even, then that would be proof that it works, rather than just an argument that it doesn't.
:)

Apart from that, one of my friends went to a seminar on Motec engine management about a year back, and he said they talked about rb series engines (can't remember if it was 26 or 20/25's or all of them) running lean on some cylinders and rich on others. Possibly that was related to poor factory plenum design, or maybe some other effect.

With a Motec or other programmable engine management you could tune that mixture problem out, with different settings for each injector. Of course you'd just have to shell out $150 by 5 for extra EGO probes!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 07, 2001, 10:50:48 AM
Hmmmmm.....very interesting........
    Anyone else got a view on this? I know it's getting off topic a bit, but if some people are going off to chop their plenums up, they should probably know if it's safe or not.......:)

take care all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on December 07, 2001, 10:54:31 AM
money is probably better spent elsewhere than on the plenum
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on December 07, 2001, 11:05:38 AM
for simply power output that's true. mind you a custom plenum might reduce your lag a bit, which is a harder benefit to measure than a power number.

Look at that sileighty that japanese motorsport put together in zoom (clockwork conversion). It had 250rwkw from an rb20det, with the standard plenum, stock internals, and even standard engine management (chipped though).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on December 07, 2001, 11:18:26 AM
I'm with 240ZT, the less lag the better. For example I went to the Sydney SDU dyno day with a couple of mates, one with a S4 RX7. We both got the exact same peak power of 133kw@wheels (this Dyno seemed to be running around 25kw under most) but he has nothing until redline, where I have a much more power down low.

On the road my car is much nicer and smoother to drive, where his is very on/off.

I don't want to lose that bottm end, less lag = better response.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 07, 2001, 12:24:08 PM
custom plenums:

Bearing in mind that I know pretty much nothing,
1. Larger plenum = equal a/f ratio to all cylinders,but greater lag.
2. Smaller plenum= less lag, unequal flow to cylinders.

.....this makes sense to me anyway......

laters

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on December 07, 2001, 01:08:01 PM
What you are describing is operating range, eg when the turbo spools up and also the torque curve of the engine.

Lag is barely measurable on a rolling road dyno in 4th gear

er.. read this

http://www.wave.co.nz/~hksnz/techfiles/intercoolersize.html

and this

http://www.wave.co.nz/~hksnz/techfiles/main.html
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on December 07, 2001, 02:57:56 PM
Quote

The intercooler you mentioned will really only be used to possibly half its potential in this situation so I would suggest halving its size at least and concentrating on good flowing pipe work. Leave the inlet/outlets at 4 inch to decrease joint "resistance to flow" but decrease pipesize to increase charge speed.



"Charge Velocity"?? - Why would the speed of the air through the pipes make any difference to the performance of the engine?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Doctor on December 07, 2001, 06:11:14 PM
Faster air in = faster air out = less lag = better performance.

Doc
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 08, 2001, 10:35:54 AM
....am I the only one wondering what the fark is going on?
(I couldn't even find where that last quote came from)

....did two threads collide? did someone delete a post?

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 08, 2001, 03:38:04 PM
Some very good points coming up, one I wish to comment on. It was previously said that nissan has probably spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in designing engine parts for optimal performance... in a way true, in a way BAAAZZZZZUUTTTTTTTT WRONG ANSWER!

The best example is the turbo. OE turbos are always undersized to promote less lag, and speedier/more consistant power delivery... this is done from a marketing perspective, as it makes the car feel very much more powerful on a test drive.... than a car with more lag but more top end power. ( I mean hey, would you red line a car on a test drive? )

The plenum is probably one more step in this direction.. limiting top end performance to promote less lag time. And on top of that is the fact that of course most engine parts are restrictive for some reason, either cost of manufacture or engine lifespan/durability. These guys have to warranty these cars for years remember.

Go the after market plenum and intake.. it'll be one of my first big mods. That sub zero one caught my eye months ago.. I mean, if its sitting in a 10.2 second GTS-t, how bad can it possibly be!

hehehe. :p
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 08, 2001, 05:01:17 PM
a little update, I decided to remove the gauze on each side of the AFM and clean it thoroughly with carby cleaner. It wasnt particularly visibly dirty, but I had had some plastic tape melt near my pod and suspect there was some kind of residue or something. The car does indeed seem to run sweeter, though the big test will be at night, where it seems to run worse than in the hot weather for some reason.
thanks Mr FHP.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on December 08, 2001, 05:39:53 PM
just my 20 cent s worth on the custom plenums I cant see the real $ for performace value for them and I defiantly wouldn't cut mine off and mount it on the front If and only  if I was to build a stinking hot rb20 of 270-300 kw then I would do it with a cusstom plenum but the motor would be worth 25-30k to build.
and the subero one looks the goods and they inplied they had flow tested it
btw the subzero one does fit on an rb 20 are you sure.
meggala
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on December 09, 2001, 07:48:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by flupstar
. ( I mean hey, would you red line a car on a test drive? )

You mean you wouldn't??? :confused:









:P :D :evil:


btw, mention of the gauze in front of the AFM reminded me: I just got a pod filter (woooooohoooooooooo yeah baby yeah!), and when Lee was fitting it, he pulled out the AFM, and there were bits of foam sitting on the mesh! The foam that normally resides on the scoop! On the other side of the air filter! hmmmmmmmmmm.... Maybe Mr No-maintenace san (the previous owner of the Great Silver Whale) tried to do without an air filter, rather than shell out for a replacement. :confused: cos I can't see how bits (decent size bits, too) of foam could get through an air filter :confused:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 09, 2001, 11:47:54 AM
Moondog: Hi dude...ya can't get chunks of foam thru a paper filter....looks for sure like the previous owner tried a bad "free mod"......

It pays to rip off all that old foam from round the scoop....you can replace it with self-adhesive draught excluder strip........saves clogging up your new filter if nothing else......

I'm still running my AFM without the gauze with no ill effects BTW.....until someone can come up with a proven reason (not just scaremongering) why not....

On another subject, I think over here it's actually required by law that you find the redline on a test drive.......it's the same legislation that dictates you must do burnouts in rental cars, and handbrake turns in the company van........:D :D :D

Meggala:good point dude.....there's undoubtedly a place for custom plenums, but I don't think they remotely qualify for free (or even cheap) horsepower mods........:)

Take care all,

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND AFFORDABLE HORSEPOWER..........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 10, 2001, 09:49:26 AM
Totally agree that just a plenum upgrade might be an expensive way to show very little extra rubber to the road, but bringing me back to the reason I bought it up in the first place, to show the best results from a front mount intercooler mod, surely the best pipeing and plenum set up is prefered.  The same way you'd look at head mods whilst having the head off to fit the 1.8mm head gasket.  It's more a 'two bird with one stone' thing, "how many ways can I improve performance from my performance enhancing mod?"

Can anyone confirm that the sub zero plenum would fit the RB20DET?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on December 10, 2001, 12:33:16 PM
I was just reminded while reading this, something I saw in a recent "ZOOM" (issue 43) magazie. An after-market Nizpro Plenum, which looks exactly like the factory item, except for the (very neat) front facing throttle body and the fact that the wole thing is polished.  Anyone else got this mag' and seen the plenum. Looks to me as Nizpro have basically made and marketed the exact same thing as we are planning to do ourselves?

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 10, 2001, 02:26:42 PM
For the RB20DET?  Who are the local agents, I might give them a call and see about it.  If it's just a modified factory one then I'd rather have a crack myself (that way it'll have the "yea I'm a weilder by trade, wanna make something off it" look to it).  I'm figuring I could get one from a wreck pretty cheap.
Title: yet another update
Post by: flupstar on December 10, 2001, 02:59:01 PM
Ok I went on a club cruise on saturday night.. cold weather.. and the car ran better than in hot weather.. FINALLY. It really has never been so powerful. And every hp was thanks to a can of carby cleaner on the AFM. So strong recommendation from flupstar... even if it doesnt look dirty (as mine didnt at all).. waste the f**ker with a can of cleaner anyway, if you havnt already.

And to support your arguement Jon, my car has also never run better... with the gauze removed.

On a different topic... somewhere, someone was talking about how much air is really being sucked into the engine... on a 2 litre, it was said to be 200 litres per second running 6000 revs @ 1 bar of boost. I did the math myself too... and providing each cylinder is filled and fired every single rev (I assume this is how engines work:PPP)... then thats correct.

And that makes it 250 litres per second on an RB25 like mine. SOOOOOOOO I keep thinking about this cold air partition and I think I see a restriction. A big one. Imagine a small enclosed area under your engine bay with only a few small vents (behind the headlight and other gaps here and there... then imagine how much the air pressure in this little area must drop under full load when the engine is sucking so much air in.... and imagine how much harder it must be for the turbo to keep 1 bar of boost under load... when air pressure around the pod is so low.

It sounds like a sound theory to me... another reason being that I can hear my turbo spool very loudly through my thin foam filter and at high revs and high boost... it spins off its f**king nut to keep the pressure up... yet so much of the air flow sound I also hear disappears.. I suspect this could be caused by the low intake pressure... when I hear that sound from the turbo, I can just picture the compressor wheel spinning in something getting close to a vacuum.

If anyone has anything to support or disprove my theory.. Im very eager to hear.

By the way, does anyone believe I can do a 12 second quarter with standard engine, turbo and engine management?
Its my ultimate goal:P
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 10, 2001, 04:03:08 PM
Ok Im full of new ideas this week... Im hot. heheh

How does this sound. When no current is going to the factory boost solenoid, it remains open, bleeding pressure off and limiting boost to around 6 or 7 pounds, I have found. Very economical:P And of course, when current is applied, I guess it'll close.

So Im going to install the T piece back into the actuator line, reconnect the solenoid and set up a switch in the cabin and a relay... to be able to switch the solenoid open or close... and voila.. we have a power / economy boost switch. Id like to be able to turn the full 14 pounds off for every day driving but not have to pull over and pop the bonnet to boost it up... AND not have to fork out 100s on a real electronic system

Its all in the name of saving a bit of money on petrol... and prolonging the life of my turbo / engine

total cost = $1 in wires, $few for a relay and $5 for a nice switch that lights up red :))))

I'll do it this week.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 11, 2001, 10:34:46 AM
Flup: Bleedin' 'eck mate...you have been working those old grey cells.....:D :D :D
Right, here goes:
Cleaning the AFM has gotta be a good idea....as long as people do it properly and CAREFULLY...these things are easily damaged and we don't want anyone screwing them up.....

Airflow: If you imagine the factory aperture through which this 250l/s flows, (the black duct from the front grille), then as long as the feeds to your partition have the same or greater cross-sectional area,the capacity for flow will be increased. This does not take into account the slight ram-air effect from the standard duct, but you can see that if 250l/s can pass through that little factory duct, then you haven't really got anything to worry about with your partition restricting flow.
If you look closely at the factory airbox on the turbo models, you may wonder why the section beneath the filter element is shaped to the largest volume possible within the space allowed....this is to provide a buffer volume of air ready for induction under full throttle......and any reasonably sized cone filter is as large as this space anyway.
As for spool-up noise, this is solely because there is less soundlroofing between the source and your ears, not because the turbo is working any harder.:D

Gauze : Let's hear from some more people who have actual experience of this please........

12 second quarter: I think it's possible dude..... better do some power/weight calculations.........I'm toying with the idea of parting with my beloved sound system and doing some serious (but free
:D ) weight reduction......but this will have to wait until after the winter, as I'm having trouble with traction at the moment anyway....

Factory solenoid: ....sorry Flup, but you've got it just about completely backwards.....the solenoid is usually CLOSED.....and bleeds pressure off the line to the actuator at a certain point.......the theory of switching it to manual control is sound though....but I can't see any real benefits from doing so.....(but I'm open to suggestions dude :D )
.....If you're up for a little project, leave the factory solenoid to to what it does, and plumb in a bleed valve in parallel to it......put a simple on/off valve in series with your adjustable bleed, and hey.....in-dash adjustable boost, but retaining the factory boost jump at higher revs........
(sounds like a plan to me.....won't cost any more than your first idea, and you can become a God by telling us all about it hehe)

Anyway, Flup......you wanted comment, you got it dude....
:D
....thanks for your ideas on this little thread......hope I help a bit.....

take care all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 11, 2001, 06:01:41 PM
Yeah Im a c**ksucker.. you're right, it is closed. I had my theory all backwards. SORRY! :D

And yeah, Im aware that the factory airbox provides sufficient airflow... but the more the better... if we can find ways to channel more airflow into this area, there are bound to be benefits.

Also in regards to the turbo sound.. Ive run it at lower boost, eg 10psi.. and its quite normal... the spinning sound just increases a very substantial amount.. when raising that boost to 14psi.. and only at high revs when the demand on the turbo to sustain the high pressure increases. The reason I say it sounds a bit like its spinning in a near vacuum is that the spinning 'note' changes from that of something spinning, compressing air to something spinning twice as fast, with half the airflow/compression... as if there is something restricting the airflow coming in..

Such as once, I made an air channel with flexible pipe and what it would do is fold over, suffocating the turbo/engine and I got a similar sound.

I dont think anything is wrong with my car at all.. .I just believe that with more free flowing intake air.. and less pressure drop, our turbos wouldnt have to spin so hard to keep the 14 pounds of pressure up... and therefore lag would also be decreased and the max flow potential of our turbos would increase somewhat.

Sorry for bulls***ting on about this!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 12, 2001, 04:20:01 AM
Flup: just a thought dude....you're not still running the standard turbo at a constant 14psi are you?

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on December 12, 2001, 01:45:15 PM
Hey has anyone read the latest Zoom magazine??

They have an article that talks about mods done to the standard air flow meter on a RB20.

Some of the Nissan ones have a screw that can be adjusted to change the a/f mixtures.  This could be cool, but you'd need to do it on a dyno.

Another interesting thing is they reckomend taking the mesh out of the air flow meter (front and back) as this can give upto 3-4kw.  They didn't say anything about possible damage done by flying objects hitting the wire, but they do give a quick explaination on what the effects are.

When I get home I'll quote what they said.

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on December 12, 2001, 03:21:01 PM
J,
  I have the latest Zoom aswell, and after all of the talk on here saying how bad it was to remove the mesh from the AFM I am now torn. Martin Donnan who wrote the article, from all of the things he has written over the years and I have read, seems to know what he is talking about. He is the one by the looks of things who suggested the mesh ramoval as a performance mod.

  What I want to know now is, is there anyone who has removed the mesh, or got there car without the mesh, and have had any problems?

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on December 12, 2001, 03:33:31 PM
TINDUCK has had his removed, or got his car with it removed already.

TINDUCK - whatdoyareckon????

BTW - the latest Zoom mag has a few good things in there for the Skylines.  Shame the comparo of the 3 RB25T motors all used after market turbo's  :(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ethan_R33 on December 12, 2001, 04:31:47 PM
MFX-R33,
my old AFM was buggered so i got a second hand one (off crooser) and it already had the mesh removed.

The car obviously ran better because of the working AFM, but i am yet to see any side effects of it without the mesh.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 12, 2001, 05:06:34 PM
As mentioned earlier in the thread, Ive removed mine also and have only noticed benefits, with no ill side effects. Granted, I cleaned the afm at the same time which made most of the difference.. but I can guarantee nothing ill has come of the mod.

something else I noticed is that my cleaning of the AFM must have helped the air/fuel ratio somewhat. I think it must have been running quite rich previously as my exhaust would be coated in close-to jet black ..stuff. Now it has turned to a more dark grey kind of charcoal colour which looks much more healthy.

And yes Jon, Im running constant 14psi on the standard turbo and have been for quite a while. When it breaks, I'll buy a better turbo:PPP Or maybe I'll just buy a better turbo while mine is good enough to sell.

but I REALLY want that FMIC. *growls* hehehe

Anyone else besides Jon think Im out of my mind?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 12, 2001, 05:08:18 PM
By the way, as an after thought...
This thread is so successful that I think it should become a new group.
You know... Performance... Maintenance.... Free Horsepower...
heheheh.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 13, 2001, 09:37:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by flupstar
By the way, as an after thought...
This thread is so successful that I think it should become a new group.
You know... Performance... Maintenance.... Free Horsepower...
heheheh.


That's not such a bad idea.  We seem to have about 10 stayers, but heaps more readers.  Must be about time for a 'free horsepower-recap'.

As for the airflow meter, I have an even better idea.  I have no plans to mesh with the mess, instead, I think I'll biff the entire unit (I think DEVEUS's one is poked, (remember his 'dead at 160 problem he was having?') so he can have it).  Replace the airflow meter with a six inch pipe, and run a LINK!  It's gotta be done at some stage.  Actually this mesh discussion has proved that an aftermarked computer will give you at least  4-6kw just from the removal of the afm.

Oh, and I chucked a pod filter in last night, and ho-le-****!  Megga wooshy-sucky-chuffness!!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ned on December 13, 2001, 10:25:02 AM
HI all,
     I've been following the AFM mesh debate, and it reminded me that I had read an article on Autospeed about this also. :idea:
 
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0652/P_2/article.html

They removed the mesh at both ends of the AFM on an Audi S4 to decrease "negative boost" , and found a Gtech measured difference in acceleration.

I cant quite understand why the disruptive effect of passing air through a mesh should smooth :confused: the airflow rather than mess it up .

This weekend I will probably take them off.

Ned
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on December 13, 2001, 11:05:53 AM
my thoughts on the mesh removal is I wouldn't do it its there for a reason and if it stuffs upo they are hard to find the Idea of going wit out afms and using map sensors is better but there are issues with that 4-6 kw isn't enough to justify it fo me better to turn the boost up 1 psi or advance the timing a couple of degrees or put a dump pipe on.
on a side note these are the mods on my r32 its an auto so a slug off the line this was done on a very tight budget but I got great results.
front mount cooler core 500 X 280 X 76
vg 30 steel wheel turbo  apexi n1 exhaust and s-afc.
the afc isn't tunned properly yet but my car made 121 kw @ 510 to much wheel spin the car is running 10-11 psi if I get the s-afc tunned and up the boost to 16-17 psi I recon I would be on 175-190 rwkw which is heaps the only issue is will I have enough fuel to do it my car spins the wheel once it hit 5000 rpm in first ths is showing quite a bit of power.
The turbo was chosen for a reason the ray hall website has a calculator and for a 2.0 l engine to make 300 hp @ 7400 rpm the fly wheel the turbo required is a t3 not any thing bigger as alot of people think I am reallly happy with the power of my car an wont be upping the boost for a while. btw the car runs quite rich at this level so a fuel computer would help also my timing is set at 15 degrees so there is futher improvemnt to come. My seat of the pants dyno says about 14.3 for the 1/4 mile may be 14.5 (cause of the bad take off) I will go in the comming months to the track to check this out
cheers
meggala
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 13, 2001, 11:55:26 AM
Morning all/ Evening all....(depending on your latitude):)

Jay: I removed the outer gauze myself because that was the only way I could fit my slurpy big cone filter :D ......and then Mario worried me senseless on A/Forums by saying that you must NEVER remove the gauze......and then making a very intelligent argument why not......so that's why I wanted to hear more people's views.....

Flup: 14psi constantly on a R33 ceramic hairdryer??? How dare you do what everyone says you can't???:laugh:
(How many miles/kms have you managed like this without things going pop?)
......and how have you managed to keep the boost cut from stopping the fun.......and how are you fuelling?
Tell us........the world is waiting.....:D

Hmmmmm.....new group......fame......fortune......etc......
hehehehe

4Nick: Hi dude......Don't filtermods rock? Kinda makes ya feel young again don't it?? HP increase? Nah, just listen though....SSSSSSCHLUUUUUUURRRRRRRRPP......PTCHHHHHEEEEE........hehehehehe

Ned: Hi.....have a look on A/Forums.....there is a thread on mesh removal....Mario explains the effects of flow disruption......

take care y'all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 13, 2001, 12:10:25 PM
Just went into Mag an spoiler, and they offered such a good deal on a GIZZMO chip I'd be a fool to turn it down, so ordered one, and a bleed valve, will crank 14 pound and let you guys know.  Almost finished the treadplate cold air box last night, fitting that tonight, along with my GTR kit (a-la-'fryline'), so the next few days will show a large leap forward in performance and cosmetics (but a large leap backward in the ol bank-a-roonie).

What the whole GIZZMO thing does though is shunt me back into 'needing an afm' land, real fast.  So....to gause or not to gause....that is the question......

Phhhhhhhh.......pssshhh!

:splat:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 13, 2001, 12:23:38 PM
........and the poor old Cortina sits rusting in the corner......whilst 4nick lavishes all his time and attention on that modern foreign upstart with the funny name......

hehehe:D :D

take care dude

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Doctor on December 13, 2001, 01:34:40 PM
G'day guys,

I decided to be a bad boy and take out the mesh from a AFM as its on its last legs anyway. I found that I picked up 1/2 a psi(not much I know) but was pleased with the improvement in response from down low in the rev range to redline.

Just think of how constrictive the mesh is, take it off if you've got the balls, and if you dislike it, well get a new AFM.


Doc
Title: BOV
Post by: Doctor on December 13, 2001, 01:38:20 PM
By the way, I also blocked off the little hole under the stocko BOV and it seems to hold boost better particularly at half throttle. Instead of the pshhhhht noise it makes a woop pshhhhht noise.

Don't know how good it is for the turbo though.

Doc
Title: BOV HOLE
Post by: [TWUBLE] on December 13, 2001, 02:05:35 PM
What hole is that? Anyone got ne views as to whether or not this is a good idea?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on December 13, 2001, 08:01:47 PM
For all those that haven't read the Zoom article on the AFm mesh here it is.

I know I'm a day late but what the hell.

".......Anything you do to the meter to make it flow more air will lean the air/fuel mixtures and add more ignition timing, while restricting the airflow meter internal diameter will add fuel and retard timing.  In the case of most Nissans that run overly rich in standard form, a simple and effective modification is to flick the wire mesh screens out from the meter with a screwdriver.  The resulting change in flow area (the wire reduces the flow capability of the meter by at least 5 per cent) adds a couple of degrees more timing and will lean the full load mixtures by about half a ratio.  That's good for 3kW-4kW at the rear wheels of a stock R32 GTS."

Hmmmm, I wonder if you can put the mesh back in??  Or is it a hack out throw it away thing???

Or can we just take out the back mesh so the front mesh screens the crap (just incase) and still has a bit of an efect of spreading the air flow???

I'm stumped on this one.  Don't know which way to go.


OH - talked to a mate with a R32gts4 the other day.  He's thinking seriously about converting his standard air/air intercooler into a water/air intercooler.  I'll keep you posted if anything happends and if it does I'll take about 10 billion photos.

I'm going now cause my fingers have gone numb.

J
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 13, 2001, 08:30:43 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING

Flup: 14psi constantly on a R33 ceramic hairdryer??? How dare you do what everyone says you can't???:laugh:
(How many miles/kms have you managed like this without things going pop?)
......and how have you managed to keep the boost cut from stopping the fun.......and how are you fuelling?
Tell us........the world is waiting.....:D

....SSSSSSCHLUUUUUUURRRRRRRRPP......PTCHHHHHEEEEE....... <---- I love it:PPP
 


I have been running 14 pounds for around um... 10,000kms... and using that 14psi to its full potential CONSTANTLY.
Still no pop and no noticable evidence of turbo degradation. I guess it'll pop eventually:)
Fuelling, Im quite worried about. I dont appear to have any fuelling problems yet but a fuel pump upgrade is definately on the board very very soon.
And the boost cut? As far as I could work out, the boost cut is triggered by the factory solenoid... apparently nissan does not employ fuel boost cuts on any of their engines. I found that when I boosted too high (like a spike to 16psi maybe), the boost would drop to 7psi constant until I turned the car off and started it again and whamo.. full boost again.

But this cut does not exist with the factory solenoid disconnected from the wastegate line.

MY TURBO IS INVINCIBLE.
I dont know what to do. I want a front bar and intercooler. I want a fuel pump. I want a plenum, intake manifold and fuel rail. I want a new turbo. And I dont know which to get first. Out of interest, what order would all of you guys do this in?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on December 13, 2001, 10:19:16 PM
flup my advise it cooler, fuel pump, front bar, turbo, and all the intake stuff.
or if the cooler wont fit with out the front bar swap them around
I would factor in some wherethere engine management like (s-afc or power fc or chipping. more than likely b4 the turbo.
you will have quite a bill for that lot
meggala
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 14, 2001, 09:23:17 AM
Hmmmmmm...plenty food for thought here guys.....where to start?

Quote
Anything you do to the meter to make it flow more air will lean the air/fuel mixtures
........think about this....if the AFM is flowing more air, the sensor is detecting more air, and will add more fuel accordingly......so the mixture will not get leaner..And if the gauze was there to cause turbulence and consistent flow across the AFM, then removing it should cause a laminar flow effect, where the air at the centre of the tube is flowing faster than the air at the edges.....(keeping up so far?)....SO, the sensor, in the MIDDLE of the tube is detecting slightly more flow than the average flow through the tube, and therefore telling the ECU that there is more air than there actually is. The ECU should then fuel accordingly, so surely if anything the car will run even richer?  (whew!)

Jay: Hi buddy.....keep us posted on this chargecooler.....in theory it's an easier mod than a front mount,but might cost a little more.
The GTSt seems an ideal candidate for such a setup,no moving of boost pipes needed, and plenty room for the radiator up front.


Quote
MY TURBO IS INVINCIBLE.
....hehehehehe
Flup: how many Kms has your car done in total?(just wondering}

Has anyone ever blown up a RB25? (the lump itself, not the turbo)
How many kms are these things good for?(the lump and the turbo)
(I'm not talking 35psi/no oil here......just general wear and tear......when and how do they die?  Who's had to put in bearings and rings? Who's melted pistons?)

......I'm just curious.....
:D

Take care all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Carlito on December 14, 2001, 09:37:34 AM
Jay,

My bro-in-law is planning to do the same thing - build a water-air IC possibly using my old original GTS-t intercooler. He has a R32 with a RB25DET and the auto front spoiler, so there's no room for a FMIC. I'd love to see how your mate does it, as my bro-in-law seems to be contemplating "engine murder" with his!
As for the mesh screens, maybe if you take out the back one you'd get 2 1/2% better flow instead of 5%? :idea:

Tinduck, the AFM is calibrated to a specific diameter/flow rate. If you increase the diameter, you'll get more air flowing at the same speed, so the sensor will think it's the usual amount for that speed, instead of more, so it'll end up lean. Same if you remove the mesh - it was calibrated for the mesh to be there, so it'll fuel accordingly.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on December 14, 2001, 10:37:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Carlito
My bro-in-law has a R32 with a RB25DET


:eek: :eek: :eek:


Damn that thing would be a weapon! how';d he do it? costs? pics? spec?S!@#@

hehe im just about as excited as BIG KEV!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on December 14, 2001, 10:48:26 AM
tinduck to give you an Idea the rb30et which is an aussie only engine has been know to go for 300000 klms on stock boost easily and more.
at stock boost i reckon the same 2-300,000 klms should not be a problem but when you up the boost I reckon the life would be shortened. but either way they are a very well built engine.
here in oz our cars get very high mileage. there has even been gtrs with 200000 + klms on them.
meggala
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R34 on December 14, 2001, 11:18:46 AM
Meggala
Sat in a Taxi a few years ago.
A VL with the RB30.
It had done 1.1 million kms without the engine ever being opened. It had started to use oil the owner said at the rate of 1 litre per 5000kms.
The car was falling apart around him but the Nissan parts were fine
Cheers
Chris
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 14, 2001, 12:17:43 PM
Meggala...Chris......that's some serious miles there folks...
300000km....186451miles
1100000km...683654miles
.......jeez, that puts the mind at ease a little.....:)


Quote
build a water-air IC possibly using my old original GTS-t intercooler
NoNoNo!!!!....don't do it!Use a dedicated chargecooler dude.....the stock I/C is NOT designed to be immersed in water 24 hours a day......just imagine for a moment if it sprung a leak.....and all that lovely incompressible water being pumped into your air intake....and into your engine...:eek:

Carlito: Hi.....have a look at fluid dynamics sometime....it's hard to explain here, but you'll see what I'm talking about:)
Also, if as you suggest, the only benefit of removing the mesh is to effectively increase the cross-sectional area of the tube by 5%, then just removing one of the mesh ends should have no effect whatsoever,as the other end of the tube is as restricted as before......?

Anyways, this is all pretty academic, as I've yet to hear from ANYONE who has tales of woe after removing the mesh......so it's looking like it's OK to do.......unless anyone out there knows differently??? (from personal experience only please)

Keep up the good work dudes,discussion=horsepower......

take care all

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on December 14, 2001, 01:14:02 PM
Anyone with a R33 GTS25t absolutely must replace the factory boost solenoid!

I went to Razor's place yesterday, and we blocked off the return hose, and put a needle valve (25 or 30 bucks at a hydraulics shop :) ) in the other hose. No more 2-stage boost! It feels like a totally different car now. (http://www.plauder-smilies.de/naughty.gif) (http://www.plauder-smilies.de/naughty.gif) The needle on the boost guage rushes up to the halfway point (which should be about 7psi - pretty much where it was getting to above 4500 rpm before), and stays there rock-solid throughout the rev range...in 1st through 3rd gears, anyway. (http://www.plauder-smilies.de/naughty.gif)

ps Jon, reading your post about the AFM, and the effect of removing the mesh, as far as I can see I'd agree with your suppositions. Does anyone know if the article in Zoom backed up their comments about running a bit leaner, and how?

ps2, as you can see I love this smilie (http://www.plauder-smilies.de/naughty.gif)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on December 14, 2001, 01:27:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by moondog
Anyone with a R33 GTS25t absolutely must replace the factory boost solenoid!


Hey is that the same for the R32GTSt? If so... where and how can i do that? If someone in Auckland knows how can they help me? Im sick of reaching full boost at 4500 :splat:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on December 14, 2001, 02:15:20 PM
Not the same. 32's have no boost solenoid. Stockies hit full boost by about 3500rpm or so
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on December 14, 2001, 02:19:24 PM
weird mine hits boost about 3k and then fullish boost about 4.5 :(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on December 14, 2001, 03:00:26 PM
non-standard turbo??? :confused:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on December 14, 2001, 03:16:28 PM
TINDUCK - I'll have to tell my mate about that (standard cooler etc), but there was talks of getting it preasure tested and using a anti corrosive additive in the water.

AMAZING STORIES:-  This weekend is the first one for 6 months that we haven't had anything planned soooooo, I'm gunna try making up a cold air partition.

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on December 14, 2001, 03:17:04 PM
nup standard turbo..... from what we know about my car (only bought it recently) it has a 3" stainless exhaust (similar to a HKS Superdrag), GAB Adjustable suspension, HKS Springs, M's Racing filter, and we think it has a remapped chip coz i can reach almost 260 (tested against a mates GTR that has the 280 speedo) and wire #53 hasnt been cut! so yeah...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 14, 2001, 04:01:59 PM
I am forced to jump up and down and whinge and complain loudly and insist that you're all wrong, and Im right, though Im most likely full of sh**.

Now with that intro out the way...

I think Jon is correct. Sure, the gauze might restrict the area of flow on each end of the AFM by 5%.... but whether the gauze is on or off, the centre of the AFM, where the sensor is, will ALWAYs have the exact same diameter. the gauze is merely a flow restriction but as soon as the air passes through the gauze, the air fills back out to cover that 5% long before it hits the sensor.

And your theory about laminar flow sounds correct too Jon.

And my car has done a total of 69,000kms.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 14, 2001, 04:25:52 PM
Hi there all,

Long time listner first time poster (NOT!).

Recently fitted the pod and cold air partition, I'll grab some pics off that this weekend and the 4 dr GTR kit (who am I trying to kidd????).

So many interesting points on the mesh topic, just don't know about attacking mine just yet.  Those afm's break real easy, and I don't wanna be the one to run a screwdriver through it......

Getting a new plenum to hack into the fm-intercooler, so will keep the world posted on that.

New 'GIZZMO' chip being fitted as I type this, as is a boost controller (yea, I know it's an easy job, but I just can't be shagged right now...).  It'll be interesting to see how the chip'll fit in with the current and future mods.

mmmmm....friday arvo beers and forums....too much ramblin'.

Bigups, peace out.
Title: 4nick
Post by: rogang on December 14, 2001, 10:57:12 PM
4Nick can you let us know the specs on the Gizzmo as i`ve got one in my car but dont know what it does.

Cheers Rog
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Carlito on December 15, 2001, 01:52:45 AM
Hey unfamilia!

Bro-in-law's car used to be a 4-door R32 GTS25 with a 5-speed auto and the auto front spoiler. Now it's got a RB25DET (sourced from Rob Bryan) with a pod filter, 3" exhaust (but stock down-pipe) with a 3" catalyst, a muffler you could lose a large cat in, stock RB25DET ECU and a stock RB20DET intercooler and original fuel pump. Also a stock RB20 5-speed manual and clutch. I've been trying to get him to change the pump and the IC, but so far no luck. He's done a 14.2 second quarter (Gtech timed) with a clutch that slips from 2nd gear on, so with a good clutch he'd be in the 13's. It's a hairy beast! He's upgraded the brakes to the Type M brakes, and has 16 inch wheels off a Cefiro or Altima or something. It looks pretty good.

He got the idea of the boxed-in air-air IC conversion from Jullian Edgar's book, where Edgar shows pics of one on a R32 RB20DET. Once he gets an idea in his head, it'll be the devils own job to get it out, but I'll pass on the comment from Tinduck. Maybe get him to consider a Spearco water-air IC - they are pretty reasonable in cost.

Tinduck, you're probably right about the AFM thing - it's been a long while since I did Fluids at school. But I do know that with the new Celica they use an AFM that's essentially a sensor screwed into the side of a calibrated tube, so if you want to upgrade the intake you have to make sure the new one has a tube of the same size, then swap the sensor over. Sport COmpact Car covered it in an issue a few months ago. I thought that when you were talking about modifying the sensor, you were considering boring it out a bit, to increase the cross-sectional area. That would definitely make you run lean.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 15, 2001, 10:56:36 AM
Quote
Long time listner first time poster

......hehehehehehehehehehehehe :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:  ROFLMFAO.......:D

Hi there all.......bloody hell there's some grey cells being brought out of retirement here.........(dunno about you all, but I for one wish I'd paid a bit more attention at school).....

There's been some brilliant tips on this little thread....and I know that several people have got faster cars because of it.....:)
..but now we're deep in the realms of speculation, and if we're not careful, we might come up with something completely new....cool.......

..still waiting to hear from someone who's actually done a chargecooler(water/air intercooler) conversion on a Skyline)

Take care all.....keep up the good work,

Jon.

P.S: 4Nick: wanna see those pictures mate...

P.P.S: Moondog: Please post a fuller explanation of Razor's solenoid mod (for the hard of understanding....me):D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 15, 2001, 11:10:15 AM
Skylines Downunder Forums > Technical > Performance > Free Horsepower > (FEELS LIKE HOME)





(http://c:/my documents/my pictures/dogpile.gif)
Title: CARLITO
Post by: unfamilia on December 15, 2001, 02:33:49 PM
Carlito,

well it sounds like a bit of an animal, even if its a 4 Door family car :D hehe just kidding..

damn i need to get a skyline, last night coming home along epping road, i see a riceboy in a mitsu lancer, and was playing with him and making him look like a driver of a barina , and all of a sudden out of nowhere comes an R32 gtst (silver coupe, no spoiler, awesome apexi exhaust, nice big rims, dropped) and he baits me, and then he floored it.... damn thing nailed it away so quick, looked so beautiful :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on December 16, 2001, 09:55:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
[B
P.P.S: Moondog: Please post a fuller explanation of Razor's solenoid mod (for the hard of understanding....me):D [/B]


The solenoid switches boost at 4500 rpm right? Which is a major piss-off. Now you can't just pull the hoses off it, cos then there's no boost control happening (in fact I don't wanna even think about what would happen....) so you haveta put something in its place (leaving the electrical connection plugged in so the ECU don't get confused).

Ideally, you'd put a real boost controller in its place, but I'm not spending that kinda money just yet, and also, my intention wasn't even to wind up the boost - I'm running pretty near standard boost , just not in 2 stages. Therefore, I took this advice (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11652), and bought a little needle valve tap, and stuck that in.

Basically, the factory solenoid is T'ed into the wastegate actuator line just like you'd install a bleed valve, so you simply take that hose off the solenoid, and put the needle valve in there. You also need to bung off the other hose, which goes from the solenoid back into the inlet (in fact, it joins the return from the BOV)


clear as mud??? :p I'll endeavour to get some pics, but I'll need to find someone with a digicam
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on December 16, 2001, 09:57:25 AM
hmmmm. re-reading the post on AF, it's slightly different to what we did, which I would guess comes down to using a different type of valve. You should be able to figure out what to put where though; even I could, by tracing hoses and connections along, and figuring out what each bit did :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 16, 2001, 11:58:06 AM
600 REPLIES ON THIS THREAD!!!!!

:king:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: qik_30x on December 17, 2001, 04:13:21 AM
601 actually,

:)

steve
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on December 17, 2001, 08:29:36 AM
check this (http://www.powerlink.co.nz/%7Egraeme/faq/index.html) out for a good resource.

And how'sabout this (http://www.powerlink.co.nz/%7Egraeme/faq/69.html), Jon? Bring tears to your eyes?? :p
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 17, 2001, 09:32:20 AM
I'm all chocked up......speechless.

Took some pics of the car and pod setup this weekend (so I can use it as the 'before kit pics').

There's about 6 of them and their in no real order.

1. Picture of car.  (do you think the sign writing on the back door needs to go?)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 17, 2001, 09:40:54 AM
2. A shot of the cold air partition (yet to have the cold air ducting because it was pointless fitting it to the current front bar).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 17, 2001, 09:42:19 AM
3. Another of the air partition....

.....mmmm shiney..... :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 17, 2001, 09:43:45 AM
4. hehe.... I couldn't help myself.

3½" Mandrel bent stainless, all the way to the turbo, baby yea!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 17, 2001, 09:45:49 AM
5. My plate, and "no" I don't care if some stalker wants to look me up.  He can hang in the bushes outside my house with all my ex girlfriends......

:dfinger:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 17, 2001, 09:47:26 AM
6. And last of all, a rather low quality pic of the whole waggon.

.....mmmm tints....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 17, 2001, 10:09:26 AM
Quote
601 actually,
....hehehehe too funny...:D

Moondog: WOW!!!....who did that? you? (Should have copyrighted that baby hehehe)

4nick: Nice "work hack" dude....:D

Quote
A shot of the cold air partition
(Should have copyrighted that baby too hehehe)
...top work mate....it looks the business...SSSHHHLLLLUUUURRRRPPPPP!!!!!!!

......you're a lucky bunch of buggers down there......we can't get personal plates that cool over here.......

take care y'all,

Jon.

GO THE FREE MOD THREAD!!!!

LET'S HAVE FIVE STARS AGAIN!!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on December 17, 2001, 11:15:30 AM
For those of you who are making cold air partitions, try sticking a fast reacting temperature probe in the space.

You'll find that withing 15 secs of stopping after a drive , the temperature there will shoot up to over 50 deg C even with a partition as hot air rushes through all the gaps there trying to escape from the bonnet. Er.. but the temperature does drop back to just above ambient after a few seconds driving which is good.

I think Im gonna try my hand at fibreglassing a sealed box.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GT-R Ben on December 19, 2001, 01:20:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by 4Nick8
I'm all chocked up......speechless.

Took some pics of the car and pod setup this weekend (so I can use it as the 'before kit pics').

There's about 6 of them and their in no real order.

1. Picture of car.  (do you think the sign writing on the back door needs to go?)


Yeah loose the sign writing man ;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on December 19, 2001, 08:12:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Moondog: WOW!!!....who did that? you? (Should have copyrighted that baby hehehe)


Hell no, not me! That was GraemeWi. Far too much work for me :p It's awesome, eh?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 19, 2001, 09:54:34 AM
.....I'm bloody impressed!!!!!

WELL DONE GRAEMEWI DUDE !!!!
(Keep up the good work buddy)

(Can't wait for the royalties to start rolling in hehehe)

Slow: Hi there dude.....My next project is to put two little temp sensors, one in the engine bay, and one in the partition....with LCD displays on the dash.....should be interesting.....

4Nick: I kinda like the stickers on the doors.....it's not THAT ricey.....:D

Anyways, back to the free horsepower.......

Why does my bleed valve work like a dream since fitting the cone filter and partition??? It helped at lower revs before, with the stock airbox, with boost coming on stronger.....but seemed to give trouble at full throttle....
(And boost seems to be increased even without the bleed since fitting the filter......how so?)

take care all,

Jon.

GO THE FREE MOD THREAD!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on December 19, 2001, 12:15:24 PM
Hey I've got another idea about the AFM screen removing issue.

So people are worried about removing the screens to improve flow, because the screens may be important to even out the flow distribution through the AFM, or other reasons. But who knows, maybe the screens are only there to stop mechanics dropping spanners into the AFM while replacing the filter or something.

On way to lean out the car without removing the AFM screens would be to make an adjustable bypass around the AFM. You could just take some 1" or so plastic pipe and a little butterfly from an old carbie (or find a large plastic gate/ball valve from a sprinkler system or something), then plumb it up so that air can go past the AFM. The flowrate through the bypass should be roughly proportional to the flowrate through the AFM, and you can adjust the ratio by opening or closing the bypass valve.

Then, if you could get it on a dyno or knew someone with an accurate tailpipe sniffer, you could just tune the overfueling out of the car.

Another way to achieve the same effect would be to use one of those electronic air fuel ratio adjusting boxes, but they cost more than nothing (free mods right?).

Does anyone know if the AFM signal to the ECU is an analogue voltage signal, or a pulsed signal? If it's just a voltage you could probably just dodgy up a circuit to alter the signal like an air fuel ratio box would.

whaddyareckon?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: KiNGgTS25t on December 20, 2001, 08:38:08 AM
4nick8 - make me one!!!! im useless, shiney things are good *drool*..no seriosly make me one..:D  




:dozey:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 20, 2001, 09:15:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by KiNGgTS25
4nick8 - make me one!!!! im useless, shiney things are good *drool*..no seriosly make me one..:D  
:dozey:


Dude, it's wayeee easy.  Go to the local Ally' treadplate workshop and ask for an off-cut (they'll usually have a scrap bin for a few bucks, mine was all free. GO THE FREE HORSEPOWER!!!!).  Take out the carbon canister thing (you've already done this surely), take out the old airbox.  Make up a blank with some cardboard.  Trace and cut the treadplate (with a jigsaw), de-burr.  Hold it in place, and bolt on the pod filter and adaptor plate (that's all that's needed to keep it in place).  It's honestly a ĵ of a day job.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: KiNGgTS25t on December 20, 2001, 09:30:46 AM
ok im going to attempt this......lol....ill post pics :D wont be till after xmas tho! lol

hey so does it rattle round and stuff if the pod is the only thing holding it inplace?

I really need to get something done as my pod gets to hot to touch!

maybe i could just use the cardboard :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 20, 2001, 10:07:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by KiNGgTS25
ok im going to attempt this......lol....ill post pics :D wont be till after xmas tho! lol
hey so does it rattle round and stuff if the pod is the only thing holding it inplace?
I really need to get something done as my pod gets to hot to touch!
maybe i could just use the cardboard :laugh:


It's way worth it, made a huge difference.  Nah, it doesn't rattle because the afm pulls it hard against the rubber pipe surrounding the intercooler pipeing.  It sits up against the treadplate I put on the outside of the washer reservior (for cosmetic purposes), but, no, no noises at all.

If you do plan to use the cardboard you should coat it in something that'll let the heat slide off easily, something like oil.  At the same time, I can't not say how effective an oily rag is as a heat soak for the exhaust manifold.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 20, 2001, 11:41:54 AM
........Top Tip: Why not use paper instead of card.....it's much lighter, and should therefore drastically improve 1/4 mile times......
:rolleyes: :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: KiNGgTS25t on December 20, 2001, 01:19:07 PM
well i decided to go ahead with tisue paper smeared in honey....
:D

But guys what about free/cheap ass mods for N/A skylines? come on come on... :laugh: need more power!! :licklips:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: unfamilia on December 20, 2001, 01:20:44 PM
steal someones turbo? ?

hehe nah just kidding.. thieves should be shot and karate chopped..
:karate:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: KiNGgTS25t on December 20, 2001, 01:23:49 PM
get jackie chan on there ass:rolleyes: :idea: :idea: :rolleyes: :karate: :karate:
Title: 4nick8
Post by: [TWUBLE] on December 20, 2001, 02:25:35 PM
Man thats fricken cool!!! I WANT ONE!!! :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 21, 2001, 09:40:16 AM
...and it was almost free!

That's what this thread is about.

Can't tell you all how much better the car drives with the new chip too.  Tinduck, even you should streach the budget a little to include one of these.  On a standard car, sure, it improves performance, but with a moded skyline, it's like a duck to water.  I'd bet it'd solve some of those erratic problems you R33 boys are getting at high boost.

Next cheap mod...hmmmm.....

How to get you hands on the high flowing mother of all intercoolers....hmmmmm :confused:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rbZ on December 21, 2001, 09:47:03 AM
Morning nick!

I've been told that an Isuzu NPR truck intercooler is pretty large (600-300-50 or so?). If you could find one of them in a second hand truck parts place you'd get a good useable cooler for not much dough.

Apparently they use them in the cheaper drag racing 240z's in the US, and over there they only cost $500 Aust. from a truck place. The bolt into the front of a zed on the horn brackets apparently.

I looked for one myself but didn't find any in Brisbane. I ended up getting the cheapest custom cooler I could find - from PWR on the Gold Coast (600mmx300mmx73mm core for $900!)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 21, 2001, 12:33:05 PM
4Nick:  Hi there buddy......can you explain in very small words for the hard of understanding, what the chip actually does?
     Is it a piggy back unit, or does it replace the ECU? Or is it just a re-program of the factory unit?
     Does it control boost? Fuelling? Timing? All of the above?
     How easy was the fitting? Does it need setting up on a dyno?
     Can you adjust the settings yourself with a laptop, or is it a preset unit?
     Does it increase power, or just improve driveability?

(enough questions again hehehe)

take care,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 21, 2001, 03:09:51 PM
Jon: worked out why you're boosting better with the new filter?? I dont get it.. unless your old filter was so restrictive, it was limiting boost levels to under what the bleed was set to.

I have more shtuff to babble about. I think Ive just set the record for 'most time spend farting around with a bleed system'. Currently, Ive spent over three months.

Anyway, my GFB bleed is one of those 'gated' ones, like the new turbosmart ones. Basically one end of the hose fitting on the valve (the intake bit) is restricted down to a tiny hole, maybe 1mm in diameter.. which restricts maximum airflow... for two reasons, firstly it means you dont have to bleed as much air to get the results you need... and secondly, it slows the response of the wastegate which speeds up high end spool times.

bullshtuff basically.

I was finding that boost would spike as high as 16psi.. and settle as low as 10psi in some gears.. it was pathetic. my main problem was that the wastegate was reacting far too slowly when trying to run higher levels of boost (14psi). The bleed just wouldnt allow air pressure to pass through fast enough.

So I drilled the f**ker. Bored the hole out like a sheep's *stops* oh hold on, Im not allowed to say that here, its a NZ forum :laugh:

Ok so now air was passing through like friday night's curry. And I had to bleed many many times more air to keep the same boost levels. Quite bad really, it made the mixture rich enough to give me black smoke out the exhaust. But I had forseen this a couple of weeks ago and found a use for that Festo flow restriction valve I always used to whine about being so crappy. Basically, the flow restrictor is placed before the bleed along the actuator line and allows me to adjust the maximum flow to a sweet spot where bleed is minimal, and flow is great enough to prevent large boost spikes. basically an ajustable version of that little hole I drilled out.

Really, that bleed valve worked fine under low boost.. but I dont think it was designed for higher boost applications.

results? boost spikes are about 1/4 the size of before, the car is holding full boost right throughout the rev range much much better.. and spool speed appears to be uneffected. Not by any noticable amount anyway. Its a bit more fiddly, having two adjustments to keep in harmony with each other.. but its worth it.

Im sure there must be other people out there with similar problems to what I had.. I hope this shines a little light and eeeeks out that few extra ponies that we come to this forum to find.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 22, 2001, 02:00:09 PM
Flup: you're a fu*kin' Free Horsepower God...!!!!!!!!!!

Now, for the imaginatively challenged amongst us.....how about a little diagram or picture of your current setup dude??

Keep up the loooooong posts dude....:D

take care,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 22, 2001, 03:53:06 PM
Done!

http://home.iprimus.com.au/fluppy/pics/skyline/mydiagram.jpg
Title: R33 CAI partition template
Post by: Jay95R33 on December 23, 2001, 05:54:54 PM
OK Guys,

I've got the partition template out of my car (R33 GTS-t) (did it while I was re-oiling the filter), but I have one problem.

The size of the template is bigger than A3 size so I can't scan it.  It's bigger by A3 by the wideness of it (damn it).

I've got a A3 scanner at work that I can use, but any ideas how to scan it if it's bigger??

Maybe I should go to the news agents and get some A2 size (???) graphpaper, trace the out line, then scan it twice????

Any ideas??  If anyone is desperate for it, PM me with a address within Australia of some sort and I'll post it off.

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on December 24, 2001, 10:21:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
4Nick:  Hi there buddy......can you explain in very small words for the hard of understanding, what the chip actually does?

Ummmm......adds more fuel, less air to the mix at top end, removes some factory cut-outs (boost, rev and speed), among other things.
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Is it a piggy back unit, or does it replace the ECU? Or is it just a re-program of the factory unit?

It's exactly that, a chip.  Open up your PC, look for a big black chip on the mother board with silver legs that kinda looks like a square centepede, and that's pretty much it.  So it replaces a similar big black chip on the ECU, so, at a glance my ECU looks exactly the same as everyone elses.
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Does it control boost? Fuelling? Timing? All of the above?

No, it needs to be fitted with a bleed valve. Yes, yes and no.
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
How easy was the fitting? Does it need setting up on a dyno? [/B]

I consider myself pretty handy with a soldering iron, but I wouldn't attempt it myself (no warranty then), a lot of messing around with a solder sucker.  No, no dyno, but the shop is getting one in the next few months and I promised to do a run with a factory ECU and then mine to see the difference.
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Can you adjust the settings yourself with a laptop, or is it a preset unit?[/B]

No, it's pretty much like the factory ECU, 'cept it won't 'learn'.  Ideal if you aren't going to mod the hell outta your car.
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Does it increase power, or just improve driveability?
(enough questions again hehehe)[/B]

Yes (yet to be measured, but at a guess, I'm up around 30 odd). Yes, rev response is heaps better low down, and I can run insane boost without 'pinking' (before you ask, that's 16psi with good fuel, not that I intend to do that every day though).
Yes, enough questions, go down and see your local chipper and ask him what he thinks.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 24, 2001, 01:17:11 PM
Hi there world........
....life's pretty cool at the moment...car's back and running fine....gotta new TV 'cos the old one broke and was under warranty......bought a used Sony Vaio notebook so I can do this stuff while the missus watches TV......and it's snowing.....

.....so, how YOU doing?????

....anyways.....

4Nick: thanks 4 the reply , clears alot up for me......I'm just a bit dubious about this chip thing that's all.....( or maybe just hoping for a cheaper option hehe)

Jay: Hi dude...go for it.....draw 'round the bitch on two pieces of graph paper and post 'em both....:)

Flup: Hi....WOW:eek: ....so you're effectively using TWO valves.....one as a restriction, and one as a bleed...???
(that kinda adds an extra dimension to the whole bleed-or-restrictor issue eh?)
.....Love the diagram BTW......so what are you doing with the factory solenoid? Is it still connected?

Take care all, and thank you once again.

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on December 24, 2001, 06:45:32 PM
Jon,
The factory solenoid is currently on my driveway (no, it is definately not in use.)

And guess what, I just modified the bleed system once again. I just cant give up hehehe. I'll draw a new diagram... somehow. Its a bit more complicated now but the results were super.

I am totally amazed at how much a simple bleed valve can upset A/F ratios... and Im totally amazed at the fact that this topic hasnt even come up. Its so obvious...

With my new set up, I am bleeding -no- pressure whatsoever and performance at 10psi is only a smidgen less than what I was getting previously at 14psi with a large amount of pressure bleed. And its running so smooooooooothe.

Some bad news though. My darling had a bit-too-close encounter with the back of a civic yesterday and Im afraid she will be in the panel beaters workshop for around a month (due to christmas holidays and import delays).

Was only doing about 30km/h but that was enough to munch the front of the car and turn my bonet into a tent. merry christmas flupstar. *throws rocks at the bimbo who ran infront of a car causing major traffic upsets*. Its my fault.. but hey, if I can blame some bimbo, I will.

Good news is that now is the perfect time to get them to replace the front bar with a nice big aftermarket job so Im ready for my FMIC. And also going to get a 400R style fibreglass bonet.. so sexy

http://www.uniqueautosports.com/images/2-10b.jpg

I'll draw up that new diagram soon.. when I have the patience!

desperate for sympathy,
Tristan.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GonthraX on December 24, 2001, 07:14:51 PM
Sorry to hear about your incident:(  
*Eagerly awaits diagram*  What exactialy was improved?  Boost coming off shifts?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 29, 2001, 09:30:20 AM
Flup: Hi dude and thanx for the post.....awaiting your latest diagrams.......you're a star......

Everyone: MERRY CHRISTMAS AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!!!!!

Take care all, and thanks as always,

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND HORSEPOWER.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rbZ on December 29, 2001, 12:43:28 PM
On the subject of boost control, has everyone seen the autospeed articles on the no-wastegate-creep boost control?

It's meant to bring boost on much faster, and hold it at a steady level.

I've got it on my car now, but I haven't set it up properly yet. It takes a fair bit of playing with to get right.

http://www.autospeed.com/A_0670/page1.html
http://www.autospeed.com/A_0685/page1.html

Cheers,
rbZ
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on December 29, 2001, 01:13:30 PM
hrmm if set up properly you could tune it to get the max timing advance and boost possible.. I.e overboost in mid range then the boost would drop off a little in top end?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: OOHSAM on December 30, 2001, 12:42:17 PM
Ok every one listen up...i got some intersting news for you all...

A friend just picked me up to get his new plenum installed. Its the one we all talked about before, u konw like the GTR's. So he picked me up (its a damn quick r33 as well) and we went down, the process took a little while to do but we dyno'd it b4 and dyno'd it after, i couldnt blv my eyes. No SH1T! im talking an extra 18kw at the friggen wheels.

 i made them run it again just to be sure the dyno wasnt buggered, the car is way more responsive, second and third gear are animals. My 33 is great through first and second, third is a disspointment though, But after this mod, its got heaps of top end, but im sure his front mount i/c bigger turbo etc etc adds to that, but it was never that good before. its making me do some serious thinking....I strive for an extra killowatt here and there, if you can 17 - 18 kw by changing the plenum...then i may go for it, also he put an XF throttle boddy on too.


-Very Impressed-
Title: Diagram at last
Post by: flupstar on December 31, 2001, 03:22:27 PM
http://home.iprimus.com.au/fluppy/pics/skyline/seconddiagram.jpg

there we go

you will notice it is very similar to the factory boost control setup, only that the bleed valve has replaced the factory solenoid.
It is also very similar to something autospeed did an article on.

at this point the bleed valve isnt bleeding any pressure at all, it is just sitting there. all control is done from the festo valve.

That means that this boost control set up potentially only costs $33 (for the festo valve, available all over australia and probably by mail order also)

the boost isnt incredibly stable. basically you can open the bleed valve a little to bleed pressure, open the flow control valve a little to allow more pressure through... and the more you do this, the more stable the boost becomes.. but the more upset your A/F ratios may become. Its completely customisable and up to you. With the bleed slightly open and the flow control valve slightly more open ... boost is very accurate. it shoots up to full boost and just sticks there, no spike, no creep.

I really believe that drilling out the centre of the bleed valve is essential to this.

***

Still no comments on the upset A/F ratios? Id really like to know what other people think.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on December 31, 2001, 04:26:45 PM
OOHSAM - 18 rear wheel KWs!!!!

Damn that's good. It sorta blows my thoery out of the water.  But was it a GTS-t one that was modified, or one of those $1600 Nismo ones???

What other mods does he have on his car???

FLUPSTAR - that's really interesting, thanks for the dia..dya..diag picture.  Just on the A/F ratios, would that be the reason why we all run rich at above normal boost presures???

I'm pretty sure most of us would just have our bleed setup just bleeding out into the air.  Sort of the same theroy why non plumb-back BOV will fart and throw flames between gears???

WHATDOYARECKON???

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MAGN1T on December 31, 2001, 04:53:40 PM
By removing your factory boost solenoid you're removing one of your engines safety features. At least with Mitsis, most cars work on the same priciples.
When the ECU detects knock the ECU retards timing, dumps fuel then reduces boost via the solenoid valve, your A/F ratio is suffering, I'd bet your injectors are maxed out. Shortly you'll be posting that you've blown your motor.

Steve
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on December 31, 2001, 05:04:50 PM
MAGN1T - If the injectors were maxing out wouldn't it run lean (less fuel) and not rich (more fuel)???

I could be waaaaaayyyyy of track here, but bleeding air out of the system into the air would/could cause the ECU to think there was more air in the system that there actually is (as it's bleeding the air out of the system after the AFM).

The big question is :- is the air being bled from the after market bleed valve, that bleeds into the open air, enough to upset the A/F mixtures by that much??

Brain is melting now, must go rest :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MAGN1T on December 31, 2001, 05:19:40 PM
Yes you are right there, also the air that you are bleeding is being put back into the intake after the airflow meter so it should be running ok, as it's all metered and not lost. Its just that when doing mods you have to be careful, I blew a motor due to my own stupidity (loose wire) and it wasn't cheap.

Steve
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on January 02, 2002, 05:50:37 PM
Jay,
Yes, I do definately believe that it is possible to bleed enough to upset A/F ratios. Aside from simply FEELING the difference in power delivery using a non-bleed system..
If you think about it.. most bleed valves are capable of bleeding enough pressure to act like a disconnected vaccum hose.. they really can bleed a lot
there is more evidence:
I get flames out my exhaust. No, I dont have an aftermarket BOV.

With no bleed, my flames are quite rare.. if at all.

With a heavy bleed, I can get flames on almost every high RPM gear change. Friends drive behind me just to see the show. At night I can see the entire landscape on either side of the car light up like a christmas tree.

BUT -only- with the bleed.
Ive been toying with this for a good month, there is no doubt in my mind that the bleed is the cause of this.

on top of this, when I bleed very heavily, I get plenty of black smoke from fuel oversupply. particularly when idling Im told. I get soot all over my back bumper.

Common sense tells me that the A/F ratios are really screwed up when it is like this :D

Its scarey that such a common mod can do this and no one seems to have much knowledge of it.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on January 02, 2002, 07:40:55 PM
Flup - Gezz, your right, the higher the boost the richer it would get as it would be bleeding more air out.

Hmmmm, I wonder how long it will take manufactuers to realise this.

And looking at my bleed setup, there is no way I can plumb the bled air back into the system.

I must say though, the flames would look cool at night.  Not sure what the cops would think  about it though :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on January 02, 2002, 10:17:08 PM
My r32 has a  bigger turbo vg30 cooler and exhaust and I run a bleed valve boost is 10-11 psi and the car runs rich as like a/f ratio's 10.7 which they tell me is terrible I have an s-afc and slowly I'm tuning it I have about a 4% fuel reduction at the moment and it still runs really rich with the black smoke out the exhaust. but as I lean it out a bit the power gets stronger,
but is this the bleed or the bigger turbo and all the other stuff.Cause don't people who have ebc have the same problem cause so much air is being pumped into the motor with the higher boost .
cause I think the computer over compensates cause more fuel is better than not enough fuel
cheers
meggala
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on January 03, 2002, 10:23:20 AM
Big bleed would also suck in dust when car is not boosting :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on January 03, 2002, 07:17:25 PM
yeah I guess a big bleed would suck some air through SLOWgts

meggala, apparently the skyline ECU has a tendancy to overfuel at higher boost to reduce chance of detonation and engine damage, and this cripples performance quite a lot. But if you have a fuel controller, that should negate that characteristic of the ECU yes?

if the ECU/fuel controller is behaving correctly the A/F ratio should be fine I think! Thats a really rich mixture you're running there, maybe it is due to the bleed. Perhaps the actuator spring in the turbo is much weaker and therefore requires a lot more bleed than the normal turbo to attain higher boost levels?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on January 03, 2002, 07:21:55 PM
yeah flupstar that what I thought its just a hassle on the dyno cause it gets to much wheel spin (even with 2 100 kg blokes in the boot :-) looked very funny I have to wait till I get wider rear tyres then some proper tunning still 121rwkw @ 5100 isn't to bad makes for about 160-170 @ the rears. and my timing is only 15o and boost 11 psi
cheers
meggala
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 04, 2002, 10:29:47 AM
Quote
When the ECU detects knock the ECU retards timing, dumps fuel then reduces boost via the solenoid valve

........sorry dude, on the Gtst, the solenoid acts as a bleed, not a restrictor, so by definition, it can only INCREASE boost, not reduce it......;)

Flup: thanx for the diagram thingy dude.......:)

All: bloody hell you have been busy with the old grey cells......some damn good ideas coming back to this little old thread.......gonna take me a week to think them through though hehehe....

Thanks all,

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND HORSEPOWER.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on January 21, 2002, 04:07:12 AM
Any updates people??

I've finished my cold air partition.  Made it out of Alcobond, wierd stuff but works good.

Pics to come soon.

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 22, 2002, 01:27:42 AM
OOHSAM.. I know  a guy here in auckland that can modify the R32 GTS-t (and other model) Plenums... to look and act like that of a GT-R.... one MAJOR increase is that the intake pipe isnt sitting on the top of the friggin engine which basicaly voids the fact you have an i/c... so moving that down to the front of the car.... having the intake like a GT-R.. would decrease boost... decrease your intake pressures...and hopefully increase HP :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: OOHSAM on January 22, 2002, 03:42:17 AM
[Twuble]

Over the past few weeks i have had many friends who went for the plenum mod, all with good results, not all skyline owners mind you, im thinking of taking the mod for my next HP increase...
ill keep you guys posted. I really dont know why nissan went for the plenum intake to go over the engine, its damn hot there, youre right.

Sam
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 22, 2002, 03:45:44 AM
the one i saw was pretty simple... if you look at the side of the plenum... where its molded into 6 cylindrical shapes on the side... he cut along the top of those molds and welded a 4" Stainless pipe 12mm thick along there and shifted all the bits and pieces round.... looked F%^&#(N nice :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 22, 2002, 05:34:32 AM
WE'RE BACK !!!![/COLOR][/B]

:D :D Hehehehehehe..........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on January 22, 2002, 04:34:18 PM
[Twuble] can ya get any pics???
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 23, 2002, 12:54:15 AM
nah sorry man... i cant get ahold of the other guy he did it for...and i cant afford to get it done at the moment....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rogang on January 23, 2002, 12:59:20 AM
do ya know how pricey they are??
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 23, 2002, 01:35:37 AM
well what i was going to do is buy a plenum from the wrecker and let him use that to work off.. then swap them over once it was made... i think all up (including buying the second plenum to work on...) was gonna cost me about 600-1000... but those wer estimates but should give you a clue as to what they will cost :)
Title: 12 psi boost Flatness
Post by: dtleek on January 23, 2002, 01:57:45 AM
I had the same boost flatness whilst running at 12psi it seemed to boost hard at first but as the revs climed it was like the turbo was holding back but still reading 12 psi on the gauge. I installed a big front mount intercooler and the problem was solved. I assume the stock intercooler cannot cope with the higher flows from the higher boost. I'm very impressed with the results. Pulls hard till redline now!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on January 23, 2002, 02:42:29 AM
Hey,
 the security thread is back :D :D

 My car is going in next tuesday to get the front mount and plenum custom made and fitted. I'll post pics as soon as I get them.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: OOHSAM on January 23, 2002, 04:10:13 AM
Hey guys,

Ill get pics of the plenum mod as one of my buddy's with an r33 has it done, ill show yaz how it looks, i personally dont like the way it looks, it looks heaps smaller than standard. Gimmie a few days to get the pic up.

Oh and ill be posting the template for the Cold Air Partition  real soon thanks to JAY95

Thanks Jayson!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on January 23, 2002, 08:27:14 AM
If we got a batch of plenums made then surely we could get them done cheap. If subzero can charge $1100 for a throttle body, plenum and injector rail and still make a (big) profit, then we could get a batch of the same style of thing made up for not much at all.

I guess it would be a matter of chopping the bottom of the stock plenum off (to get the bit to match the runners), then just welding on a big chamber fabricated from ally - yes?

Anyone with a welder feeling like doing some paid hours out there?

240ZT
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 23, 2002, 08:39:47 AM
240ZT thats exactly what we are trying to do here.... basically you cut the top off the plenum... weld a 4" alloy tube onto the top... move the throttle controll to the end... and put it bak on... not a hell of alot of work when you really think about it! :)

In nz... i know a guy who will do it for about 450-500 if you give him a plenum... :)
Title: GOODBYE
Post by: flupstar on January 24, 2002, 01:09:03 PM
Well everyone, skyline ownership has been great... made ever much more so wonderful by this very free horsepower thread.

I am now the proud owner of a (much faster) MR2 GT.
Its a toyota, yes, I know... I have sinned. :D I still have the skyline but all of my focus is on the MR2 now and the skyline will eventually be sold.

So I wish you all the best in your quest for more power.

Thanks especially to Jon for your encouragement, and also your "are you out of your f**king mind?" remarks that probably kept me from blowing something up:) And for creating the longest thread ever known to man and his monkey.

Take it easy all!
-Tristan.

flup_e@yahoo.com.au
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 25, 2002, 05:29:27 AM
Tristan:
    Bwahahahaha Sob Sob Boohoo.....you got me in buckets there dude....a lump to the old throat and all that....(wipes tears from eyes)

(Ahem)...Well, let's face facts.....my mate has a MR2 Turbo....it's fappin quick, and could easily give my old Skyline a good seeing to...(It's half the weight for one thing!)
They are a damn good car, whatever your point of view, and bloody cheap at the moment.....
But please look at the depreciation for a moment.....
In the UK: 1998...Skyline GTSt £8500, MR2turbo £8500
                 2001...Skyline GTSt £8000, MR2turbo £4500
......dunno if it's the same score over there dude.....??

......and an importer friend of mine just bought a MR2turbo, 1992 model...needed a driver's seat....at auction....for £1000.....jeez....

(and ya can't get a good sound system in the back lol)

......anyways, you've bought one now, and I wish ya all the best....We'll miss ya on these forums........
(call back if ya wanna know how to do a full diagnostic on a MR2 using only a paperclip)
hehehehehe.......

(it's true)

Take care Ex-Skyline dude....

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND HORSEPOWER.....
Title: HELP!!!
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 28, 2002, 01:06:32 AM
All:
    HELP!!!!!

    Skyline broke...need help and advice on the Maintenance forum.........

Thanx

Jon

PEACE, LOVE AND HORSEPOWER.......
Title: Bleed Valves
Post by: R33:GTS-t on January 28, 2002, 04:47:29 AM
Read Earlier in the Post People speaking about Bleed Valve.

Get one. 1st Gear Boost at 3's, 2nd at 2.5's....and holds peak boost better. spike at 12psi and holds at about 11psi.

Had no problems with 12 psi. (running it for 3 weeks know, so i suppose i maybe a little early)...
Title: Box is done
Post by: Jay95R33 on January 29, 2002, 05:54:36 AM
Finished my cold air box - finally  :)

I used Aulcobond sheets, two 1mm sheet of aluminium seperated by 3mm of rubber/plastic.  Then lined the inside with heat insulating foam rubber backed with silver sheet.

I cut a 80mm hole in the inner guard so it would breath fresh cold air.  The only thing I have to do it box in the front of it, which is going to be tricky.

Now the thing doesn't go like a slug when I've been siting at the lights for 5 minutes.

J
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rbZ on January 29, 2002, 08:50:26 AM
Congrats!
That's a really nice airbox - it sounds like it will be insulated well, draw only cold air, and even looks professional too!

Now that you've cut a big hole in the guard, is there a baffle or something in there to stop water spraying onto the pod filter? I'd just imagine that sucking in a big pile of water wouldn't be good for your filter, or the engine.

rbZ
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on January 29, 2002, 09:29:54 AM
Thanks rbZ - yeah it took alot of stuffing around, and fitting it with the pipe through it - OMG it was hard....

The hole is right up in the guard, and I'm pretty confident that the only way that water will get up there is if I take it for a swim  :D :D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 30, 2002, 03:22:47 AM
Jay:
   Fappin' impressive airbox there dude......
.....see ya got a bleed setup there....seems to bypass the factory solenoid completely.......can't see how the pipes plumb in though.....wanna give details?????

cheers,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on January 30, 2002, 03:58:39 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING

.....see ya got a bleed setup there....seems to bypass the factory solenoid completely.......can't see how the pipes plumb in though.....wanna give details?????


Well, I gotta even simpler one - which was suggested to me while down at the iDrag nats on sunday. There are two hoses connected to the factory solenoid: one t'd off the line to the boost actuator, and one going to where the BOV vents back into the inlet tract. Simply remove the hose from the actuator line, and connect the "solenoid end" of the other hose to the T piece (so you're basically just bypassing the solenoid with nothing in-between). Smooth as silk; no 2-stage bollocks with the boost; and now I really need a proper boost gauge, cos near as I can tell it's 10 or 11psi :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on January 30, 2002, 09:35:28 AM
The most useful injector thing I ecver did see!

http://www.rceng.com/technical.htm

Just for those interested.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 31, 2002, 03:37:20 AM
moondog will that work with the r32 gts-t aswell?
Title: bleed valve
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 31, 2002, 03:39:28 AM
hey guys i know this is really dumb... but i gotta ask it... can anyone in auckland help me set up a bleed valve... e.g. tell me where to go and what to buy..and then possibly show me how to put it in?
I would be VERY appreciative... hehe i could buy you some beers for you trouble too! :P
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on January 31, 2002, 04:08:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by [TWUBLE]
moondog will that work with the r32 gts-t aswell?


I was just gonna say no - cos you don't thave the boost solenoid thingy....but then neither do I, now :D  Basically what I've got is a line T'd into the boost actuator line - which is where you would put a bleed valve - but just connected back to the intake, with no valve or anything. It seems really dodgy, but for whatever reason, the boost doesn't skyrocket; it just sits at 10 or 11 psi. Buggered if I know what would happen on an R32 - it'd be just like putting a T piece into the boost actuator line with nothing on it :confused: :dozey: You could try it, but I wouldn't recommend it without (a) a real good boost gauge (ie not the factory one), and (b) being verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry careful with your right foot.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 31, 2002, 04:54:24 AM
so if i put a t-piece on the actuator line... what do i run from the open part of the t-piece... do i plum that bak somewhere? or chuck the bleed valve onto that?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on January 31, 2002, 05:02:01 AM
it feeds back into the line which goes from the BOV back to the intake. I'm guessing, but that might be hard to do on an R32 - dunno cos I haven't looked. Basically I believe the R32 and 33 control some things (like boost) rather differently, so what works on one might or might not work on the other. (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/uhoh.gif)

re-read your post...that T piece is where you would chuck a bleed valve :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 31, 2002, 05:05:11 AM
Quote
Originally posted by moondog
it feeds back into the line which goes from the BOV back to the intake. I'm guessing, but that might be hard to do on an R32 - dunno cos I haven't looked. Basically I believe the R32 and 33 control some things (like boost) rather differently, so what works on one might or might not work on the other. (http://www.automotiveforums.com/vbulletin/images/smilies/uhoh.gif)

re-read your post...that T piece is where you would chuck a bleed valve :)


k where do i go to get a bleed valve? and how much is it gonna cost me?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on January 31, 2002, 05:55:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by [TWUBLE]


k where do i go to get a bleed valve? and how much is it gonna cost me?


hmmm... this looks interesting (http://www.dawesdevices.com/boost.html)...

I asked at Kiwi Performance, and they don't sell bleed valves. I very much doubt that Advanced would either. I know people do, cos heaps of people buy them - so why aren't they speaking up??!?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!!?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 31, 2002, 05:58:23 AM
grrrr there has to be somewhere in nz that sells them!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 31, 2002, 06:00:33 AM
moondog... where did you get yours?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Doctor on January 31, 2002, 06:13:01 AM
Normally autopro or autoone or one of those shops normally stock a few, not a great range though.

Just a thought
Ben
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 31, 2002, 06:15:40 AM
Ive booked my car in for a place called... protec for tomorrow... costing me $100 to get it done :(
oh well...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on January 31, 2002, 07:03:04 AM
Just got to a plumbing shop and get 2x 1/4" needle valves, use one as the restrictor and the other as the bleeder.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on January 31, 2002, 07:12:18 AM
ahhh ****... are they hard to adjust? coz this guy installs them... road tests it.. and tells me if there is anything else i need to worry about at the new boost level... (which is probably a good thing!)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on January 31, 2002, 10:21:47 AM
Quote
Originally posted by SlowGTS-t
Just got to a plumbing shop and get 2x 1/4" needle valves, use one as the restrictor and the other as the bleeder.


:confused: restrictor? wot dat do den?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on January 31, 2002, 10:32:37 AM
Us hamilton boys just went down to the local plumbing shoppe and bought some simple taps, with little locator bearings inside them (so you can turn 1 click or 2!).  About 20 notes, plus some hose.  If you prefer, you can run the hose to somewhere inside the car and then dump over the gearbox, but this seems to delay how the boost comes on.  The best results were to mount it as close as possible to the turbo.  It's a real C U N T of a job, cos' it's megga hard to reach, but a $20 solution is usually better than a $150 "turbosmart" (ooh, look at me with my big label on my $20 tap!!) one.  If you guys are running good air in, getting rid of the air quick out the back, use only BP Ultimate (or Synergy 8000 you luck Aucklanders!!!!!) you should be cool at 14-15 psi.  Mine runs sweet there, even on hot days, even on the dyno where it was at T.W.O for like 5 minutes with bad air flow!!!

PEACE!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: space drift0r on January 31, 2002, 02:23:40 PM
Hey,

Can anyone tell me where the factory inlet is for the air intake of a R32 GTSt?

I put a pod filter in my car and Im wanting to force as much cold air in as possible, so im wantin to rig up some sort of forced air intake with the factory inlet. I can see clearly where it comes out and joines onto the airbox but cant see where the air gets sucked in. I tried forcing some hose down it to see where the other end came out but to no avail.
Title: umm
Post by: V8eta on January 31, 2002, 02:42:45 PM
Isn't it right behind the headlight? how about running pipe from just in front of your intercooler to catch the air and direct it to the pod filter?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on February 01, 2002, 12:51:48 AM
Just pull out all the rubber bits around your headlight and that funny tube thingy where the airbox intake used to go.

You'll get plenty of airflow to the pod once moving. I had a temp gauge there and the temperature drops within a few seconds of moving off. (But shoots up again once you stop)

Btw, with a different fuel pump, Im running close 13.5 psi, no dramas. 135rwkw on the TP dyno. Turbo dun like that boost though, tends to whisstle a bit
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on February 01, 2002, 03:22:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by [TWUBLE]
moondog... where did you get yours?


Ya bugger - I tried to pm you but your inbox is full!

Anyway.....

I went to a hydraulics shop and bought a needle valve tap for 20-something dollars. Not using it now though, and I'm getting more boost this way :confused: I still don't really understand it, cos I would have thought the boost would have just kept climbing. Ah well, I'm glad it doesn't.

I guess you'd have the other one in by now? If not, you're welcome to try mine and see how it works for you, but I've grown less and less fond of it - I don't think it's ideally suited for the purpose we intend it.

btw - your sig: I love the misquoted F&F :laugh: :laugh: :D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on February 01, 2002, 03:28:46 AM
how are you runing yours now? can i run mine the same way?
Yeah i bought a little valve off a mate for 15 bux :) haha and he's buying my standard head unit for $40! lol what a deal! :P getting the valve put in this arvo...

hehe yeah the misquote should keep comign down *hopefully!*
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on February 01, 2002, 06:28:26 AM
My cold air box is a few pages back in this thread, you'll find that if the cold air box is sealed ok air flow will be pretty good through the factory intake.  To improve on the factory intake, remove the headlight, just underneath that there is the factory intake tube with two rubber blanking plates, take these off and it will now draw air from the top of the intercooler intake area, almost forced in under the front bar.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: space drift0r on February 01, 2002, 08:26:22 AM
Sweet, thanks guys, will commence auto surgery this weekend :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on February 02, 2002, 12:27:00 AM
Hey guys.. finally got the bleed vavle put in and set to 13psi! :)

I would post pics but i dont have a camera :( so if anyone with a camera is going to be at the nightspeed dragwars tonight.. can you take a photo for me? :) cheers
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 05, 2002, 03:57:28 AM
Moondog:
....like the idea dude.....will try bypassing the solenoid myself.....
:D
.....I can't see much difference from my setup....I've just put the valve as a restrictor in place of the factory solenoid.....
....same as yours, except I can lessen the effect a bit....

cheers dude...

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND EVERLASTING FREE HORSEPOWER.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on February 05, 2002, 05:15:35 AM
hey every1
still on the free horsepower topic (a little) - has anyone recorded a power increase from a better blow off valve?

I thought my leaky stock BOV was costing me a bit of power, so I blanked it off this weekend (1mm steel plate replacing the gasket under it), and ran like that for a couple of days. It didn't give me much more power, so an aftermarket one couldn't really either - right?

Before every says it - I know aftermarket BOV's are primarily for the noise, turbo protection and to decrease lag over shifts. Was just wondering because aftermarket manufacturers claim power boosts too.

Also - has anyone blanked off their blow off valve for a long time? Did your stock turbo blow up?

240ZT
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on February 05, 2002, 08:31:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Moondog:
....like the idea dude.....will try bypassing the solenoid myself.....
:D
.....I can't see much difference from my setup....I've just put the valve as a restrictor in place of the factory solenoid.....
....same as yours, except I can lessen the effect a bit....


Don't do it!!!! I'm back to standard boost, after finding the boost cut. :( No ill effects, but the boost gets really too high in 4th and 5th gears at WOT at high-ish revs. In fact in 5th I basically couldn't go WOT above 3000-3500. No bloody good. It's a pity, cos 7psi just doesn't compare to 11+psi, but I'd rather my engine stayed together, epecially after all Harvey did to get it that way.

btw, that boost cut was a nasty experience :eek:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 06, 2002, 01:42:25 AM
Quote
Don't do it!!!!

....Ok!!!!!!!
Quote
btw, that boost cut was a nasty experience

....let me guess....BLAP BLAP BABABABABLAAAP BLAP...?
(Never a good noise):D
.....I've found the boostcut whilst playing with different bleed/restrictor setups......it was fine and faster around town, but,as you say, once on the open road in higher gears,(trying to pass a scooby, for example:dozey: )...and it all goes a little wrong......
My current setup is behaving itself, 'cos I can reduce the factory bleed a little with the restrictor....

240zt: not a good idea in the long run for the sake of the snail dude....

Cheers all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on February 06, 2002, 02:44:37 AM
I have had similar trouble with my bleed set up (at least I think it is my bleed?). It goes fine when I am giving it to it, but when I am only giving it half throttle (usually in higher gears) it baulks (it sort of skips a beat then keeps going). Anyone else had this? Is it the boost cut?

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on February 06, 2002, 02:48:15 AM
By the way when it does this I am watching the boost gauge and it doesn't go above 10psi?!

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 06, 2002, 03:09:52 AM
Hi there MFX...how's it going dude???
.....doesn't sound like the boost cut to me.....think you've got another little problem there .....maybe the old plugs???

take care,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DatsunDan on February 06, 2002, 08:19:27 AM
so is this like one of the longest threads in the forum?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on February 06, 2002, 12:06:12 PM
MFX_R33 My R32 does the same as yours.. My Plugs are old..

They need changing.. :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: mrsnrub on February 06, 2002, 05:54:15 PM
Yeah this is like the longest thread I have seen.

Look at the amount of views :eek:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on February 07, 2002, 02:42:01 AM
I have only done about 8,000 kms on these plugs and they are Platinum which are supposed to last 100,000 kms?

When I get my car back I will have to pull them out and have a look. I will try cleaning them and re-gapping them (when it was discussed at the beginning of this form I was lazy and didn't do it:) ). What was the gap you recomended Jon.

Jeff.

P.S. My car is still in for at least 2 weeks getting new FMIC, plenum, oil catch can and some other bits and I'm getting withdrawel symptoms:splat: :mad: :splat: .
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 07, 2002, 05:35:17 AM
Blatantly ripped from the "Fvck the free horsepower thread"thread.......:dfinger:
Quote
... pull the front left wheel arch cover off to reveal the BACK OF THE INTERCOOLER! Yes now air can flow from front to back through the small but lovable stock intercooler. That costs nothing and does something.

....assuming the well-designed downward-facing vents in the liner are not put there to take advantage of the rotational effect of the wheel pulling air through it......I like the theory.....:)


Quote
so is this like one of the longest threads in the forum?

...no.........








....it IS the longest....
:D :laugh: :dfinger: :laugh: :D

cheers DatsunDude...

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 09, 2002, 05:17:23 AM
Quote
I have only done about 8,000 kms on these plugs and they are Platinum which are supposed to last 100,000 kms?

........I'm running non-platinums at the moment...(through no choice of my own)....and the beast runs better than ever :)
....will wait to see how long they last though.....

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ustasa on February 09, 2002, 05:47:20 AM
Re: Turbo boost

With the restrictive intercooler found on the gts-t winding up the boost will lead to a disparity between what u see on your boost gauge (hooked up from plenum/fuel rail reg) and the “real” boost your compressor is delivering….all the piping and smallish ic causes a pressure drop which also leads to a lower amount of air entering the engine..what you don’t c is that the turbo is spinning faster for the given amount of air entering the engine then what would normally be needed..being a ceramic turbine equipped turbo also means that can you can be pushing the limits of reliability without knowing it not to mention wasting the “psi” through a silly accountants intercooler

But on the other hand, failure is related to the speed of the turbo shaft not the pressure ratio the turbo is running at. The problem with using this criteria to base your turbo reliability on is that you can’t determine the speed at which your turbo is running at (you could but would take some $$ to set up). Thus you fall back on your trusty boost gauge to determine when the snail will go pop. As I have no data on which to base the boost cut limit at, I suggest that you prudently keep below 11psi (say 50% factor of safety over stock 7psi) before conducting tests to determine whether more psi can be had.

Hope this helps
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 11, 2002, 04:25:49 AM
.....interesting thoughts dude........

....what kinda pressure drop would you expect??
....how would you measure TRUE boost pressure??
...where would you measure it from???
...How greater would the disparity be from compressor to plenum under stock conditions, and under,say, 10psi conditions???
...Has anyone measured the two readings side-by-side under real-world driving conditions???
...Whilst the cooling capabilities of the "accountant's intercooler" are certainly open to improvement, does it really affect boost pressure so much more than a big FMIC ???

Thanx 4 the input.....awaiting your reply......
:)

take care,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on February 11, 2002, 09:08:12 AM
Jon is full of questions today :D ;)

But all good questions - I'd bee keen to know what sort of presure drop there is accross the standard GTS-t cooler.

I've got a standard cooler about to arrive at my place (kindly donated) that we'll be converting into a water/air setup, just to see how it goes.

As water has four times the heat obsorbtion of air, it should be good to see the air temp results.

But it there is going to be a big presure drop accros the cooler, it still might have it's flow limits.

Does anyone actually know the presure drop accross one???  Not just a guestimate, but actual figures????

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 11, 2002, 10:52:01 PM
...you'd kinda expect a bigger drop across a bigger 'cooler,no?

:)

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: moondog on February 12, 2002, 12:15:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
...you'd kinda expect a bigger drop across a bigger 'cooler,no?

:)

Jon.


depends on the design, I think. A big Trust intakura which must be about 6-8 times the size of a standard one (just guessing here), I couldn't believe would have 6-8x the pressure drop :D In fact, I would bet the increase is probably negligible. OTOH, a big truck intakura....... :dozey:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rbZ on February 12, 2002, 01:52:50 AM
The pressure drop across a bigger intercooler could be larger or smaller than stock. From what I've heard on these forums the stock intercooler is quite restrictive, whereas larger intercoolers (not truck ones, but ones designed for use in cars) will have a much lower pressure drop at a given flow.

It's possible to get a lower pressure drop from a larger intercooler by a few mechanisms:
a)   The tanks could be designed to flow better than the stock ones.
b)   The bigger intercooler could have more freely flowing tubes (or the equivelent in bar and plate cores)
c)   The larger intercooler could have a higher ratio of cross-section to length (ie, in the case of a left-to-right type core, it's thicker and taller, rather than wider). This way more of the intercooler is operating in parallel, rather than series, so the air speed in the core is lower.

So I guess in theory at least, the design for a low restriction intercooler would have really big end tanks, feeding a large number of really wide, short tubes. This way the air speed is as small as possible, but you're still getting the cooling effect of all that internal surface area. It would be a bit of a pain to plumb something like that up into a skyline though :)

rbZ
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on February 12, 2002, 03:10:45 AM
The problem is if you have an i/c like that most of the air will have to perform sharp 90 degree turns to go from the inlet to the furthest part of the core (if you get my meaning). This would create a large restriction in itself as a very long thin i/c could have a much more direct air path. I remember reading somewhere that with i/c piping each 90deg bend is an equivalent restriction to 1m of straight pipe.

Jeff.
Title: turbo size
Post by: giajin on February 12, 2002, 03:34:50 AM
this is my first post but i feel like i know you all so well after reading through 12 pages of this thread (it only took me about 4 hours) what is the best size turbo for the r32 gts-t? i really want more hp and this is about the best way i can think of. (not free but definetly worth it)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on February 12, 2002, 03:59:50 AM
mfx - yeah that's true, and it would cause a restriction. I guess some more detailed analysis would really be in order to find these things out.
Richard at ARE (http://www.are.com.au) has done a fair bit of flowbenching and dyno'ing on the designs of his cores. I wonder if we could get him to answer some questions about what he's found out.
240ZT/rbZ
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ustasa on February 12, 2002, 04:42:25 AM
Just b4 u read the rest of this post I will just state that there will always be a pressure drop in a heat exchanger (intercooler)…even the best units in the world must have a pressure drop in order for flow to occur from inlet to outlet..it’s a law of fluid mechanics and won’t be broken till they invent anti gravity (or maybe they already have)..:)

The pressure drop through say the rb26 heat exchanger is much smaller then the shocker found on a rb25 engine. I haven’t done any testing on any of them but it’s obvious by just looking and people’s gain in power that the gts-t unit causes a large drop in pressure when the flow is increased.

True pressure is measured just after the compressor…typically on the older garrett’s u had a pressure port for the waste gate actuator on the compressor housing...so a t piece there would be the go…a handy instrument would be a pressure difference gauge..instead of measuring the boost it measures the difference of pressure at two sources…say plug one end just after the compressor and the other in your usual plenum/fuel pressure regulator pressure port and away u go

At 10psi I’d expect the drop to be minimal since u r still close to stock boost levels..but it would quickly get worse as soon as you started to exceed the flow rating of the intercooler…mind you the unit is bordering on suspect even in stock mode…so be careful of the modifications you make to your car..i have not measured the pressure drop but will do so on a sr20det which I believe has a similar core albeit less air flow due to having less power…a few mods there should fix that up..:)

Well some logical thinking is in order for your last question….if your turbo is running at a certain boost pressure while the engine see’s another there has to be a “back log” of pressure or disadvantage somewhere….higher exhaust gas temperatures are one disadvantage simply because your turbo is working at a higher speed without the engine receiving the benefit of that additional work….instead of your turbo trying to supply the air for a hungry engine it also has to fight against a stingy intercooler which is trying to impede it’s progress

Cars turbo’s and the rest of it mostly common sense stuff..i could bombard you with pages of tech speak and graphs and so on…but I like to break down the info so every1 can get a idea of what is going on..from stock dogboxes to 100k gtr’s and beyond every car owner/modifier should know what’s going on (to a certain extent) so they won’t get gyped by con artists or led astray by magazines and the like

:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 12, 2002, 05:03:08 AM
Hmm....this takes me back to the virgin days of page 1 of this thread....when I asked where to measure true boost from.....seems like an answer is near...:)
....I like the idea of a pressure differential gauge.....

Has anyone here ever seen a standard Sierra Cosworth I/C??
( not the bigass RS500 one)
....it's only about 4 inches square, but about 2 feet long......no 90 degree bends/angles......more like an extension of the pipe itself....it sits on top of the radiator, across the length of the bay....
....not the biggest by far, but a damn good bit of design.....(going by what you pointed out, MFX dude)

Anyways, someone must have figures for the drop across the stock I/C.....compared to the GTR FMIC and some aftermarket ones....(not cooling efficiency, just pressure drop)
(just the cooler, not any bends in piping)

cheers all,take care,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: kn_r34 on February 12, 2002, 11:49:45 AM
hello....i have an R34 GTT and have yet to do any mod on it.I also want to hold my hand up and say I dont know much about cars(learning as i go along) but i do love a skyline. I do know the basic mod that i can do to extract more hp from the car and this particular thread has been more then a touch helpful:)
 
what i want to know for now...what is a bleeding valve?

tq
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on February 13, 2002, 02:52:15 AM
Jon,
  I still think the "true" boost measurement is the conventional plenum pick up because that is the actual boost the engine receives. This said maybe the boost gauge should be coupled with an inlet temp gauge as the temp of the air (boost) plays a big part aswell.

  Saying this is all good but how may gauges do you really want in your car? and how many would you actually use???:)

  kn-r34, a bleed valve is basically a tap, like in your kitchen sink. It has an adjustment (knob, srew, etc) which can be completely closed or gradually opened to progressively let more air/water/whatever past.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on February 13, 2002, 03:30:14 AM
:o
kn-r34:
in this context, a bleed valve is used to bleed air from the wastegate actuator line (a hose that carries pressure from the turbo outlet to the actuator of the wastegate, limiting boost).

Bleeding air out of this line reduces the pressure at the wastegate actuator, so the wastegate opens less, and hence the boost will rise to a higher level before levelling off. There's usually also a restrictor placed in the wastegate line, to reduce the amount of air needed to be bled out and to reduce an effect known as 'wastegate creep'.

Wastegate creep is where the wastegate opens slightly at a pressure lower than the desired boost pressure. Eliminating wastegate creep will reduce the rpm at which full boost can be made, which is a good thing!

Diagrams and how-to's of installing a bleed valve setup can be found in the previous pages of this thread.

Tinduck:
It's possible that that cosworth sierra intercooler is a good design, but only if the tubes in it are very free flowing! Having a long core, with a relatively small cross section will lead to higher flow resistance in the core itself (but lower resistance in the end tanks and a more even flow distribution in the core).

Cheers all,
240:zball:T
Title: bleed valve
Post by: V8eta on February 13, 2002, 10:08:26 AM
kn r43,
i have a bleed valve in my car at the moment and works alright for the money. Eventually the boost winds itself back to 11psi which is what the car was running before i put the valve in. I would recommend getting a electronic boost controller as they give you much better boost control with more options eg. high or low. My next car will be running some sort of evc either hks or blitz probably.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on February 13, 2002, 10:15:27 AM
I have used to bleeds with similar problems what can I use as a restrictor and where do I place it. in the line to the actuator or the other line.
meggala
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rbZ on February 14, 2002, 01:29:43 AM
There's a good explanation of a "bleed valve and restrictor" setup on Autospeed - here:
Autospeed Bleed Valve Setup (http://www.autospeed.com.au/A_0096/P_1/article.html)

If you look around Autospeed you'll find another option, which involves using a couple of pneumatic valves (a pressure relief and pressure regulator) to control boost. I tried this system (which will cost $120 or more in parts too), and ended up taking it off because the valves would stick occasionally, causing 20+psi boost. I'm happier with a bleed valve setup - there's no moving parts to cause problems.

Also - personally I wouldn't use a ball valve as the restrictor, I'm going to change to a needle valve there soon, as the ball valve is too fiddly to get just right, and if you bump it only a tiny bit it can cause dangerous boost levels.

rbZ
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 14, 2002, 02:17:02 AM
.....I REMEMBER THE DAYS BEFORE THIS THREAD........THE HALCYON DAYS WHERE I ACTUALLY HAD A SOCIAL LIFE.....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Meggala: Hi there dude.....
......use a pneumatic valve...screw-in type...cheap and controllable.....try it in the pipe to the actuator..(open to decrease boost).....or in PARALLEL to the factory solenoid (using 2 t-pieces) ....(open to increase boost)
...I find the latter to be more effective....
....or use it INSTEAD of the factory solenoid........close a little to prevent overboost, but removing the 2-stage effect of the solenoid......
(for those who don't...the valve is exactly like the tap on your kitchen sink.....you turn it anticlockwise to open it, and vice-versa)


Take care dudes,

Jon.

GO THE FREE MOD THREAD !!!!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 17, 2002, 06:14:40 AM
Questions:
......what bleed setups do you all use?????

.......do they work?????

.......has anyone removed the left arch liner to get more flow through the stock I/C and seen any results?????

.......does fuel flow max out because of the injectors or the pressure regulators?????

.......If it's the injectors, then why do people promote mods to the regulator(s)??????

.....if it's the injectors, are the larger injectors fitted as stock to some other cars, ie: is there a part number/spec available without having to go to a tuner and say dumbly " how much for the XXXcc injectors"?????

......do larger injectors need a different computer to control them?

......What sensor(s) trigger the boost cut to the ECU????

.......Is anyone who plays with a fuel pressure bleed stupid/insane?????

........Will I ever stop asking questions?????

:D

Thanks,

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND FREE HORSEPOWER........
Title: I'm Back
Post by: DEVEUS on February 17, 2002, 10:57:28 AM
I use a brass tee fitting in the actuator line.  It has a small hole on the feed entrance and a large hole at both the tap end and actuator end.  The brass tap blleds air off the system.  With a minor turn i can wind the boost unbelievably high!  Have to be very careful.  It works very well.  Easy to adjust.

Anyone else?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Marcus Little on February 17, 2002, 11:30:34 AM
Hi Tinduck.

My boost control is the Autospeed pressure reg, release valve combo.

Works bloody well. Limits boost brilliantly and spools so fast it is scarey.

The stock boost solenoid is operating and connected electrically but removed from the wastegate signal circuit.

Whacked a cheap wreckers intercooler in the guard. I opened up the slats in the liner  but left the base in place.

Regulators will allow a slightly higher base pressure and therefore slightly more fuel flow per minute. The injection can often learn the improvement during closed loop operation and apply a revision during open loop. Cheap mod.

In some cases bigger injectors could be handled this way but for any reasonable upgrade an ECU rewrite is necessary. A fuel pump is probably necessary with the injector change as the two often limit at a similar point.

Injector finding can be quite an art. Find out what the physical dimensions are and the impedance of the injectors. I have an RB20de which appears to have low impedance top feed injectors. If the rb20det is similar the GTR GTIR or CA18 injectors are an option or if you want to get silly Mazda has used some similar goodies on their rotaries. Test them with amultimeter to be sure of the impedance though.

Any of these options will reqire an ecu rewrite or similar.

Hundreds of japanese tuning houses can sell chips or ECUs to spec order for any injector size you like.

Boost cut is a total load cut. It is a combination of air flow voltage, injector duty cycle and to some extent revs.

Put a digital multimeter on the air flow signal wire and a duty cycle meter on an injector signal. Peak hold is best on the multimeter as peak airflow is a bad time to watch the screen.

The gated boost controller became necessary to wind boost back to avoid fuel cutting.

:p
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: kn_r34 on February 17, 2002, 10:49:25 PM
To everyone......THANK YOU!
may even more nutricious info be feed to us!
:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 18, 2002, 06:45:15 AM
Quote
Boost cut is a total load cut.
....so does this mean that it's impossible to overboost on the R33 without the ECU shutting things down??  No matter how you plumb a bleed, bent the actuator rod (:eek: ), or otherwise.....boost cannot be increased over a certain amount....???

   If the wastegate actuator can be "fooled" into seeing a lesser boost, by a simple bleed, then surely the ECU can be "fooled" in much the same way........even if a simple electrical rather than pneumatic process be involved.....????

    ...I know these turbos cannot take too much boost, but all I'm saying is, that an ECU upgrade must do certain things under certain conditions.....is it impossible to replicate these with my target budget ( f**k all )  :D .....by some simple yet ingenious wiring/plumbing????

   Basically, if I wind the boost up a bit on the bleed, the car is faster, but if I wind a little more, the ECU cuts boost.......and everyone says the solution is to upgrade the ECU.......so, my question is, what does an upgraded ECU do to the stock map??

.....and can we mimic this by free yet "safe" do-it-yourself means...???

.....as ever, I'm most likely talking ****, but hey, ya gotta have ideas.........


Take care all, and thanks for the ongoing help,

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND FREE HORSEPOWER...............
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on February 18, 2002, 12:18:16 PM
Ok I read the article in auto speed I rate it a must read for leed valve guy I when on the hunt for a restrictor and came up with a ball pump needle well I was a bit big so I went to the hard ware store and got a compressd air needle for balls a bit smaller removed the needle part and fitted it the response was very good 12 -13 psi with an occasional spike but that was with it on the closed setting and I haven't adjusted it yet.
meggala
 the size comes down from 4 mm to 1 mm
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Marcus Little on February 19, 2002, 01:02:35 AM
The CUT is based on airflow voltage and injector duty cycle.

The ECU upgrade is necessary to alter either the injectors flow rate or Air flow meter scaling. As either or both must be replaced.


The cut can be removed altogether but it is basically set at the safe maximum for the fuelling hardware on the engine.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on February 19, 2002, 02:51:58 AM
Marcus, I tried using the autospeed setup and found that it worked better if there was a small hole drilled in the line after the controller leading back to the wastegate. This prevented the whole system from being dead headed.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Marcus Little on February 19, 2002, 03:01:27 AM
Ah.

I used the one way valve  parallel to the reg and release valve.
I think they added it as a revision.

The theory seemed sound.

Your way would work too
:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 21, 2002, 05:56:57 AM
Marcus/Slow:
Hi dudes.....any chance of explaining your setups a little more clearly for the hard of understanding (me)???

Thanx,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on February 21, 2002, 07:44:55 AM
Marcus,.

Did you find that boost got a little high inthe mid range in the upper gears (4th and 5th) er.. and drops off at higher revs?

Azlan

Tinduck.

http://www.autospeed.com

its somwhere on the site. Search for audi boost control.

Er.. different for 25t's as they "DO NOT HAVE ECU CONTROLLED BOOST" er. just a 2 stem system as opposed to say Audi's and Subarus and EVO's where the ECU pulses the solenoid
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Marcus Little on February 23, 2002, 12:44:32 AM
My goal for the thing was to initially wind boost down as the fuel cut was too easily hit on the ca18.
:)

Initial setup did show a spike at spoolup. With boost set to 10psi it would spike to 12psi. This was resolved by winding down the release valve a little so that the regulator had a little more time to do its job. I also had trouble with the faster spoolup causing trouble with the ecu cutting as a bloody great wallop of torque hit. Increasing the wastegate creep a little by winding back the release valve improved this.

Boost dropping in the top end is more likely caused by turbine backpressure and efficiency drop than the boost controller. These turbos are generally specified for early spool and midrange torque. They don't hold boost at high revs in stock configuration. This is the old tradeoff of early spoolup and torque or top end power. You can have some of both worlds with a gajillion dollar aftermarket beast suitably sized to the engine.

Quick test to see if the solenoid is bleeding the wastegate signal. Disconnect it electrically. The wastegate spring on a ca18 is at around 7psi. I found in this car boost was 7psi solid with the solenoid disconnected. Reconnected 13psi. Conclusion. Solenoid is factory bleed mechanism. ECU operated. More recent Nissan ecus seem to use this to lower boost when coolant is very cold or hot (probably other revisions too).
:)

The autospeed article explains the theory far better than I could.
These are the same theory as the gated boost controllers that turbosmart now make in abundance.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 03, 2002, 01:36:12 AM
.....and on a different subject....:D

......I know many people here use a G-tech to measure speeds and horsepower....but does anyone use the Race Technology AP22 or AC22 meter????....it seems to offer more features for the money.....just wondering if anyone over there has used one???

........trying to save  few bucks on the strip/ at the dyno:)

.....as ever, in pursuit of free and cheap horsepower......

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: initialD on March 04, 2002, 10:59:25 AM
i have a turbosmart bleed velve installed at saty 0.8 bar (12psi)
when cruising and droping a gear it'll spike just over 1 bar (14psi) for about 0.2 of second then bleed its way back to 12psi

how unsafe or bad is this spike??? only happens at nite when the air is cooler
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on March 04, 2002, 12:15:18 PM
I got my car to boost to 15 psi it still doesnt hold it solid and tapers like slowgtst's does but it is an improvement.
92% read out on the s-afc for air flow  so around 160-170 rwkw cause I know this afm is good for 185 rwkw.
new ecu coming next week and dyno tune.
my mods @ the moment
rb20
vg30 turbo, front mount cooler , s-afc,bleed valve,apexi n1.
I'm not complaining MY aim is to get to the afm cut around 180-185 rwkw should get there with tuning  and ecu now
and believe me this has been done on a tight budget
meggala
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on March 04, 2002, 12:19:25 PM
Meggala apparently I think it is Bootmeister is getting 168rwkw on 12.5psi.
With the Ceramic VG30 Roller Bearing Turbo.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on March 04, 2002, 12:25:12 PM
yeh joel but he has a blitz access ecu which gives more timing etc and mine is here say till I find a dyno that the car wont slide off to get an accurate power figure. I need wider rear tyres and they are coming soon and hope fully an ecu comparision as well.
meggala
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on March 04, 2002, 12:36:52 PM
hrmm I didn't realise that the timing etc would make that much difference.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on March 04, 2002, 12:44:54 PM
it does casue it changes the whole charateristics of the power delivery and not just changing the crankangle sensor either. that why guys spend big buck on stuff like power fc.
on a gtr with power fc you can gain 20-30 rwkw over stock so 10-15 is reasonable on an rb20
meggala
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: initialD on March 04, 2002, 01:18:56 PM
can any1 answer my question to the 1 about spiking over 1 bar on r33gt25t???? isit real bad for the turbo???
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on March 05, 2002, 05:45:42 AM
I finally have pics of my plenum. You can see them here

http://www.geocities.com/jeff_mfx/new/Team/slne.htm (http://www.geocities.com/jeff_mfx/new/Team/slne.htm)

The pics are very dark. As soon as I get the car back I will take pics in the sun.

This is a design by Mood Motorsports in Sydney, using a tapered design to stop starvation on the furthest cylinder. This one is using an XF Falcon throttle body.

If you take off the inlet manifold for him he will cut it and make the plenum for $850 Aus.

His FMIC and pipework as you see here with a 580x300x80 core is $2000.

I can vouch for his work and it is absolutely flawless. He makes all of the intercoolers for CAPA and he also does all of Vince Rigoli's cars.

I can't recommend him strongly enough.

Jeff Micklem
"PRG8RY"
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on March 05, 2002, 06:19:33 AM
Marcus. I had a little think and a little play. A regulator merely limits the maximum opening of the wastegate.

Boost on my T was peaking at 0.9 bar in the midrange dropping back to 0.75 bar at 7000rpm

Wound it up  a bit more, now peaks at 1 bar in the midrange and dropping to 0.8 bar @ 7000rpm

Er.. in other words, regulator aint that good.  On the other hand, Im sure that the R32's can tolerate 1 bar in the mid range.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 11, 2002, 05:42:58 AM
Hi dudes....:)

Jeff: good looking plenum....does it work well? Got any results?
...Are ya still getting equal flow to all cylinders?

Slow: does a regulator limit the opening of the wastegate, or does it simply delay it?
(just a thought)

Cheers all..

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on March 11, 2002, 02:22:05 PM
wastegate actuator er.. is  a diaphragm with a spring against it. Pressure against the diaphraghm pushes the spring which move the actuator arm which opens the wastegage

Force = Pressure x Area
Force = a constant x spring length

er.. anyway, this means that by limiting the maximum pressure seen by the wastegate actuator, you limit the opening of the wastegate
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on March 12, 2002, 02:49:50 AM
Hi Jon,

I "STILL" don't have my car back yet. It is still in getting new after market computer (EMS). Hopefully I can tell you how it goes at the end of the week. There is an SDU Dyno Day this weekend at Hills Motorsport where my car is getting done. So hopefully I will be able to post the Dyno results.

Jeff.
Title: mfx_r33
Post by: mYnissan on March 12, 2002, 11:52:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by MFX_R33
4nick8 - I checked to see if my speed limiter worked and hit 190km/h. I then decided. I later found (mid drag) that it doesn't kick in till about 190km/h. I hit it again the other night (I really have to get off my arse and cut that wire!).

Jon - I have been told on may occasions that you souldn't run any more than 14psi on the standard turbo. I was lucky (I try to look at the positive side) that my turbo was stuffed when I got my car so I got it re-built and high flowed with metal wheels. I don't really notice much more lag, and I can now run 1 bar without hesitation, downside is it cost me $1300AUS :(

Jeff.


Where did you get your turbo done? I'm in sydney too!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on March 13, 2002, 02:56:14 AM
mYnissan,

I got the turbo done at Precision turbo's in Wetherill Park.

Give em a call as they are very approachable.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 13, 2002, 03:49:50 AM
Hi all...:)

Slow:
    Hi buddy....sorry I might not have put my question very well. I know how a wastegate actuator works(Went to school and everything ;) )
    My question concerned the regulator/restrictor. If you are using a proper pressure regulator, then yes, you are limiting the maximum pressure seen by the actuator diaphragm, and limiting the maximum opening of the wastegate.
   But my point is that it seems that many people here use a simple restrictor (pneumatic valve or similar). This will reduce the speed at which air can pass to the actuator, but not the final pressure. The result will surely be the same terminal pressure, but achieved more slowly?
    ....Kinda like putting a bullet through the fuselage of an airliner....air will escape until the internal and external pressures equalise....it just won't do it as fast as opening the door....:)

Hope this makes a bit more sense,

Take care all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 13, 2002, 03:55:38 AM
......and this would kinda explain the boost peaking initially (airflow to actuator restricted) ....and then dropping off ( pressures equalising over time, boost returning to normal)
......all happening in a few seconds of course...

.....Just another 2cents...

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on March 13, 2002, 04:10:47 AM
[Note to self]
Never get on an aeroplane with Jon :eek:
[/Note to self]
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on March 13, 2002, 04:19:03 AM
Tinduck with the restictor in mine I'm seeing 14-15 psi nearly all the way through took some playing with the valve adustment.
and yes it does seem to trick the actuator.
meggala
Title: Sluggish performance ....
Post by: WillyWonker on March 13, 2002, 06:01:10 AM
Hi,

My R33 is really sluggish ... no kick in the back when I hammer the foot down - should there be ?  

I have all the usual mods: air filter, blow-off valve, (massive) big bore twin exhaust, platinum plugs.    But I just can't get it to excite me [uh urrr missus!] anymore.

Should I try an ECU reset .... my drive into work is slow and clogged with traffic so could the ECU have unlearned it's bad behaviour?

Also does anyone know if a dyno tune would help ... and is there a decent crowd that can do it in Auckland.

I'm a bit of newbie on this stuff so some help would be appreciated.

Thanks
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SlowGTS-t on March 13, 2002, 07:55:49 AM
er.. restrictor without a bleed wouldnt be much good. Yeah pressure would equalise eventually . Cant see the point in doing that unless you wanted boost spikes.

Im using a pressure regulator er.. but found slightly better results if I had a small  bleed after it also.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on March 14, 2002, 02:50:58 AM
Willy,

Try reseting the computer that should make a difference. Other than that, a Dyno tune wont help you unless you have programmable engine management (eg. Power FC, EMS, Micro Tech, etc).

Jeff.
Title: Sluggish performance ....
Post by: WillyWonker on March 14, 2002, 03:02:20 AM
Thanks Jeff,

That clears up some confusion for me.  My aftermarket boost cage is reading a poultry 6psi to 7 psi at full whack .....  That's pretty poor isn't it ?   How/where do I turn up the boost  - I've in the forum that the maximum should really be arounf 12 psi - is that correct?

Regards

Willy
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 14, 2002, 05:41:54 AM
Willy:
    Be careful dude.......big difference between R32 and R33 turbos.
R33s are 6-7psi as standard........R32s are more......

Jon.
Title: Sluggish performance ...
Post by: WillyWonker on March 14, 2002, 07:42:37 AM
Thanks Jon,

I know this one has been going around and around but what would the 'accepted/safe' max psi be ...

Willy
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on March 14, 2002, 12:46:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Hi all...:)

Slow:
    Hi buddy....sorry I might not have put my question very well. I know how a wastegate actuator works(Went to school and everything ;) )
    My question concerned the regulator/restrictor. If you are using a proper pressure regulator, then yes, you are limiting the maximum pressure seen by the actuator diaphragm, and limiting the maximum opening of the wastegate.
   But my point is that it seems that many people here use a simple restrictor (pneumatic valve or similar). This will reduce the speed at which air can pass to the actuator, but not the final pressure. The result will surely be the same terminal pressure, but achieved more slowly?
    ....Kinda like putting a bullet through the fuselage of an airliner....air will escape until the internal and external pressures equalise....it just won't do it as fast as opening the door....:)

Hope this makes a bit more sense,

Take care all,

Jon.


Hello Jon:)

you are half right and half wrong.. you certainly know your physics though :) Having a single line between the intake and actuator with a pneumatic valve inserted only slows the reaction of the wastegate, but does nothing to the final boost level. I figured that one out the hard way.. very frustrating. Id make 14psi.. then it would just settle back down to 7psi (grr). But if a t junction which routes air pressure back to between the AFM and turbo (like the factory solenoid does on R33s) is inserted after the valve, but before the actuator.. then you have constant airflow and a much more constant pressure on the actuator mechanism thingy... instead of just some kind of dead pressure build up. result is a constant boost pressure throughout the rev range.. and in my opinion, much better than a bleed valve. I have the same set up on my MR2 aswell and it works a charm at boost pressures up to and over 20psi. stock boost is 13psi... but I can hold a stable 20psi all the way through to 7500rpm.. with a mere 0.05bar of boost spike which lasts less than a second.
the skyline's set up is ALMOST as accurate.

To expand on the idea further, on the MR2 I placed a second pneumatic valve on the line routing back into the intake (off the T juction) which also restricts the amount of airflow returning into the line.. which gives more stable boost control and also less boost wastage (turbo pumping out pressure only to be routed back into a vaccum).

hope this answers your question a little:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on March 15, 2002, 03:07:52 AM
Willy,

Some people have claimed more, but it is generally accepted that an R33 with standard I/C sould only be taken to about 10-11 psi.

Once you get a front mount or other mods you can then push it a little more.

You boost it up using a bleed valve, just look through this thread to find diagrams of where to put it.

Jeff.
Title: Sluggish Performance ...
Post by: WillyWonker on March 15, 2002, 03:14:39 AM
Thanks Jeff !

Willy
Title: Re: SORRY TINDUCK
Post by: kirby_armstrong on March 15, 2002, 04:58:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by flupstar

Any other questions.. or if you want more detail regarding my bleed set up... give us a yell, I might be able to take a photo or two:)

-flupstar. [/B]


flupstar could you email me me some pics of what you did with your boost controller?

kirby@net-tech.com.au

where abouts are you in australia?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 16, 2002, 04:50:20 AM
Flup: Hi there buddy...knew ya couldn't stay away for ever....:D

......good to see you back....still got the old whale then? Thought you had to sell it to pay for the little 4-pot ?????

I wonder if the same pressure/time characteristics of a restrictor and bleed setup can be mimicked by, say, a long run of tube between the intake and the actuator(maybe 2 metres), with perhaps a smallish pinprick in the far end ???
(time delay for pressure at intake to reach actuator....same effect as restrictor.....spike then tailing off)
(small escape to free air at far end....same effect as a bleed)

...It's just a thought.....then in theory, someone with a pretty effective setup..(you!!!!)....could play with different lengths of tube and different hole sizes, until you find a combination which does exactly the same as your restrictor and bleed...
    Then you would just post a message here with the optimum length of pipe, and hole size, and you would immediately become a God and everyone would want your babies....:D :D :D

....Just a thought......

(it is possible....think about it....)

Take care dude....

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND FREE HORSEPOWER............
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Grim GTS-t on March 17, 2002, 02:18:00 AM
Can someone who has followed this thread thru the 700+ posts please summarize the main points that will lead to cheap horsepower increases?

I'd love to read thru all the posts but I don't have a free lifetime.

Thanks :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on March 17, 2002, 12:05:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
I wonder if the same pressure/time characteristics of a restrictor and bleed setup can be mimicked by, say, a long run of tube between the intake and the actuator(maybe 2 metres), with perhaps a smallish pinprick in the far end ???
(time delay for pressure at intake to reach actuator....same effect as restrictor.....spike then tailing off)
(small escape to free air at far end....same effect as a bleed)

...It's just a thought.....then in theory, someone with a pretty effective setup..(you!!!!)....could play with different lengths of tube and different hole sizes, until you find a combination which does exactly the same as your restrictor and bleed...
    Then you would just post a message here with the optimum length of pipe, and hole size, and you would immediately become a God and everyone would want your babies....:D :D :D



Its a good idea Jon, and just like all good ideas, Ive already thought of them and put them into practice (LOL excuse me while I go wank :) )

ok, seriously now, yep I thought of that and tried it with a 1+ metre length of pipe and thats as far as my experimentation has gone. Even still, without the constant -flow- of air.. the results would be the same. boost would hold for a fair bit longer.. just like a very slow prolonged boost spike. you could go further with restrictors or pin prick holes or more metres of tube.. but the end result is still not good enough.. and then you finally get to this point where peak boost is just too high.. even if it does stay prolonged enough to boost all the way through a gear.


also, regardless of which gear you are in, the boost sort of has a timer.. lets say 4 seconds of boost before it drops off. Now this is fine in 1st and 2nd.. even 3rd.. but going through 5th? you run out of boost halfway through the gear.


and as for the enquiry about posting a picture.. I dont have a pic of the current set up. I have posted diagrams a few pages back though... they should serve the purpose.

sorry

I hope I understood what you were suggesting Jon.. if not, whack me around some then ask me again:)

Im still trying to sell the skyline.. wish someone would hurry up and buy it :D

later all!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 18, 2002, 05:39:57 AM
Awww Flup.....we miss your long experimental posts.....don't leave us again :D

Good point well put dude....
But let's assume that someone here has a good restrictor/bleed setup on a R33 GTSt that actually works.......then we can safely say that a certain amount of flow restriction followed by a certain amount of air bleed, can increase boost a little, and hold it throughout the range......without too much spiking and tail off...
.....So, with a measurable flow restriction, and a measurable bleed,the car can be improved....
......This can only lead to two conclusions.....
1: the setup does not work effectively..... or:
2: it does, and the factors involved can be measured.

So, if the truth is the former, then we are really wasting our time discussing it, but if a system can be set up to work well, then it can be measured.........i.e:
A: the internal diameter of the restrictor
B: the internal diameter or bore of the bleed.....

......and if expressed in figures, these conditions could easily be replicated by us poor souls with no more equipment than a set of drill bits and a bit of free time....:)

I hope this makes a little sense......as always, feel free to tell me if I'm talking out of my arse.:D

Take care all,

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND FREE HORSEPOWER............
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on March 19, 2002, 01:47:23 AM
Hey Jon,

I have a restrictor/bleed set up in my car. I have used a ball vavle for my restrictor and small bleed valve connected to a solonoid for the bleed.

This set up works well, as it is easy to adjust the restrictor to get the right setting.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 19, 2002, 07:48:38 AM
Try my freeze spray idea, it costs about $20.

Get a strip o metal bolt or weld on two hose clamps, have a little 'L' bend at one end (this is to hold the bottom of the can). Attach a 12v solenoid, like on a boot, at the end after dummy fitting the spray can to fix the correct position so the solenoid will press the nozzle down far enough.

Bolt the assembly to the car in front & below the intercooler (easy for the stock one). Should be far enough away to allow a good even mist form the can. Run the wires of sufficient amp rating to the power source and then to a toggle switch in the cockpit (preferably a momentary switch).

All ready to go?

Prepare to make your intake charges as cold as Alaskan icecream.:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 19, 2002, 07:56:20 AM
Oh yeah..

Buy a can of freeze spray from electronics supplier. Dicksmith electronics for example. Electrolube brand.
Title: R33 GTS-T drivers - CAI Pics are up
Post by: Jay95R33 on March 19, 2002, 02:56:12 PM
This is also posted in another thread.

OK guys, all the pics are up on the web now,

Some are around the 250kb mark. One thing though, my ISP (DingoBlue) is closing down in a month or two, therefore they won't be there for long.

When I get a new ISP, I'll post them up again.

Here are the links;

http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/519_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/520_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/521_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/522_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/523_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/524_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/525_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/553_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/554_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/555_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/556_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/557_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/558_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/559_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/560_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/561_SMALL.JPG
http://members.dingoblue.net.au/~jayson77/570_SMALL.JPG

Have fun

J

:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 21, 2002, 02:46:34 AM
Jay:
   Hi there buddy........nice CAP dude.......just send the royalties to the usual address.....:D
...BTW....I see you've had the balls to cut a hole in the inner wing.....good idea.......but do you have a pipe feeding to it, and if so, where does it come from?????

Cheers dude, and keep up the good work dude.....

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on March 21, 2002, 04:02:16 AM
Tinduck,

LOL - that's not my ugly gob in that photo, it's my mate.  I wouldn't punish you guys that much and put a photo of me up here ;)

Yeah the hole is about 80mm in diameter, but I want to open it up a bit more, maybe 90-100mm cause I'll be building a front for the box in a month or two.  The hole leads straight into the inner gaurd and opens right up to fresh air, no pipe is feeding it at the moment.

That feeling of heat soak in heavey traffic is about 80% gone now, but I reckon if I put a front on it and open the hole up then it should be totally gone.

I'm thinking of wrapping the pipe coming out of the intercooler in vermal wrap as well.  Two reasons, the first is cause it is the pipe that goes in then out of the CAI box, so I can imagine that when it gets hot it acts like a heater in the CAI box.  And the second is to stop the under bonnet temps from heating up the inlet any more.

I have to do some investigating about the second one as some people say that wrapping it won't let the heat out.

Maybe I'll just wrap it where it on the part that is inside the box???

J
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 21, 2002, 06:27:16 AM
Good rule of thumb is just to insulate the CAI. If that means protecting it from a hot pipe then so be it.

I have only got the factory one with an Aftermarket panel. Wrapping the pipe coming from the IC to the motor is worthwhile, the other pipe to IC is neither here nor there, but it will reduce under bonnet temps by wrapping it if only a little.

Wrap the Turbo dump pipe and even try further heat sheilding the exhaust manifold, left over strips of exhaust wrap laid underneath the heat shield or even stuck to the underside via high temp silastic like 'ultra copper'.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on March 21, 2002, 08:18:19 AM
So is there any 'Noticible' faster turbo spool when wrapping the turbo dump pipe?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: lowlife on March 21, 2002, 08:38:51 AM
how do you re set your ecu
i cant remember
i was going to look for it but after reading the first 2 pages i thought i would just ask :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on March 21, 2002, 09:22:51 AM
Lowlife - I might just do that - thanks :D

I'll get some thermal wrap and do the pipe.

To reset the ECU just disconnect the battery, put your foot on the brake (to light up the brake lights) for about 30 seconds.

This drains all the power out of the system.  Then reconnect the battery and your off.

Works sweet for me.

J
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 22, 2002, 06:43:40 AM
Excellent torque and power improvements, and less noticable heat soak related improvement.

Make sure you freshly paint the dump pipe with high temp exhaust paint, with a silicone base. And wrap evenly (very important) Do not go the she'll be right mate style of completely covering the pipe with multiple loops of tape.

On the ECU reset, I just did mine and it robbed me of some top end power!

The stupid #$%@ resets to the nice over rich mixtures, better torque down low and less power up top. I had done the dump pipe,tape and filter without a reset, then whamo a drop in power!
:splat:
And no my engine was not running dangerously lean before I reset it. New rule of thumb " if it aint broke don't fix it". I think the computer only learns low rpm mixtures on the fly the top end stuff is what a reset hassles.

Now I guess I'll stick a potato up the exhaust and reset the computer so I get the leaner mixture back.

I really don't want to buy an AFC, after all this is a free horsepower thread.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: skyzerr33 on March 22, 2002, 10:08:22 AM
rev210

when u reset the ecu did u take it for a drive afterwards and give it **** for like 5-10 mins

or just drive around casually?

the ecu with learn the levelsu drive it at to start with so if u give it **** after reseting the ecu u'll get the better power setting.

works with mine.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: lowlife on March 22, 2002, 11:32:00 AM
thanks for the help with the ecu reset, it worked fine
i was also wondering if any one of you know or have a list or of all the wires in the ecu??
reson im asking is becaus i have just got a auto gage monster tacho and i wanted to hook it up
i have found the ignition wire and i have earthed it well but i cant find the rev counter wire in the ecu. i have a thread on this already and this is what some one sent to me  (http://forums.skylinesdownunder.co.nz/attachment.php?s=&postid=100297)
this workes with the ignition but when i hooked the engine rpm signal wire up it still dosent tell me the revs.
i am able to set the shift light up but even if i rev the #### out of it the dam needle wont move:mad: :splat:
if any one could help me that would be great:D
and i also cut wire #53:D :D
and it worked :D
any way thanks for the help with the ecu reset once again
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on March 23, 2002, 02:06:13 AM
Use the wire from the back of the dash. I have done this for my shift light and it works a treat.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 23, 2002, 04:43:23 AM
Hi all.......
   On another (often discussed) Free Horsepower note.......I've always used Esso Super Plus unleaded in my imported cars(97 RON)...but I'm now on my 6th tankfull of Shell Optimax.....and it actually seems to make a difference.....
....I've always been a bit afraid of using Shell fuels since the scare a few years back....but this stuff seems to be the business.....

Also, I've puchased a Race Technology performance meter.(like a G-tech, but with more features)......so I'm off to a private motorway tomorrow to try a few test runs.........:D

Thanks all, and keep up the good work....

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND FREE HORSEPOWER.............
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 23, 2002, 06:07:46 AM
Quote
Originally posted by skyzerr33
rev210

when u reset the ecu did u take it for a drive afterwards and give it **** for like 5-10 mins

or just drive around casually?

the ecu with learn the levelsu drive it at to start with so if u give it **** after reseting the ecu u'll get the better power setting.

works with mine.


Yes, did give it  ****. I did a reset on the ECU when nothing was changed along these lines and it made a difference. The ECU can do nothing but learn 'power flogging' as that is the most common form of my driving.

I'm very certain you don't gain but, lose power after improving airflow/exhaust mods and doing the reset. I had leaner mixtures than I now do and more consequently more power before the reset. Reseting is poo!

It 'feels' better only because the richer mixture gives better torque and perhaps throttle response. I'm pretty sure the dyno would dispell the myths surrounding ECU resets, why else do we get better power with S-AFC's?:(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 27, 2002, 03:24:13 AM
Hi world......:)

Quote
I'm pretty sure the dyno would dispell the myths surrounding ECU resets

........Hmmmmm...interesting, but I need convincing....
   I only have exhaust/filter/plugs/bov/bleed....and not felt any losses from a reset........
    What does anyone else think about this subject?????

Thanks all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 27, 2002, 06:31:48 AM
Well, I'd like to believe the reset is a good thing but, I'm now very conviced that its a power drainer.

A bit of testing has shown the car is now running much richer mixtures (not at all good for power!) since the reset, and thats all that has been changed.

I think there is a very real danger of 'placebo type free horspower' when it comes to the ecu reset.

It doesn't make much sense that the factory jap fuel maps are any good at all for power given they are always too rich. A fact I'm sure no one will disagree with. And applying these rich AF ratios is not a practice reccomended for power in aftermarket ECU's tuning.

So, when we increase the air and exhaust efficiency, I believe up top we are leaning the mixtures out a little, the before AFR shows this to be the case. This is why S-AFCs are so usefull for extra power.

So come on, someone convince me that ECU resets are power increasers. I see nothing but re-application of stupid jap AF maps!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ethan_R33 on March 27, 2002, 07:22:30 AM
rev210,
the only good i can see from resetting the ECU is maybe if you are running high boost, and some pinging occurs, the ECU will retard the timing. By resetting the ECU it will then learn the ignition/fuel maps again and not be retarded.
Ive reset mine on a few occasions after ive run high boost on a hot day. I didnt actually hear any pinging, but i noticed on the next few fangs that it felt a little flat.

I also have the S-AFC tuned, so i dont get the rich air/fuel mixtures, only problems with the timing.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 27, 2002, 11:15:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ethan_R33
rev210,
the only good i can see from resetting the ECU is maybe if you are running high boost, and some pinging occurs, the ECU will retard the timing. By resetting the ECU it will then learn the ignition/fuel maps again and not be retarded.
Ive reset mine on a few occasions after ive run high boost on a hot day. I didnt actually hear any pinging, but i noticed on the next few fangs that it felt a little flat.

I also have the S-AFC tuned, so i dont get the rich air/fuel mixtures, only problems with the timing.


Ethan_r33,

It sounds like it's less a case of mixture and more a case of fuel starvation with your pinging. You need to get a malpassi rising rate pressure regulator, clean the injectors (ultrasonic), replace the fuel filter or all of the above. The malpassi help will stretch the limits of the stock injectors for more power. The remap of AFR would throw the S-AFC out from the last time u tuned it too. I assume u tune the S-AFC on a dyno, that costs money so I wouldn't go reseting the ECU with a view of it fixing things cause you did that already on the dyno with the S-AFC.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ethan_R33 on March 27, 2002, 11:39:24 AM
yeah i dont actually have any problems at all mate, just stating thats probly the only reason i can think of for resetting the ECU.

And im kinda hoping that i havent thrown the mixtures out by resetting the ECU now!!!!! I actually reset the ECU just before i had it tuned. But gradually i think it has gone a tiny bit flat which i think is the ECU retarding the timing. So ive just reset it again to get it back to those settings.
Would this be ok, or have i just stuffed up a tune????:( :( :(  I hope not....

Also do you know what it would cost to get the fuel regualtor + fitting, and to clean the injectors?? Ive just replaced the fuel filter too.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 27, 2002, 12:23:29 PM
No Problems Ethan_r33,

the malpassi is about $200 & FSE do a kit for $375, a rejigged malpassi, hoses ,guage etc. http://www.speed4s.com/globalautomotive.

The injectors need to come out (you take them out) and just give them to an injector service place, can't remember how much they charge think about $50. Or goto Jaycar electronics and buy an ultrasonic cleaner and do them yourself.

With the regulator, urmine has one (malpassi) and he could tell you what psi he set his base at. Alternative is to take it to a dyno and have a play.

I think there is a possibillity that you farquared the S-AFC tune, but I hope not.

The injectors are prbly ok though.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Boosted33 on March 27, 2002, 12:39:40 PM
How difficult is the S-AFC install?  Is there a page of someone installing one on a R33 GTSt or similar?  How about tuning?  

How long should it take a good shop to do it, and what kind of kw gain can I expect with basic mods ( pod intake / 3" exhaust).  

I would expect it would be better up top since it will help bring back the lean out the a/f a bit, and not be so damn rich at the top, no?

Thanks for the help.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 27, 2002, 12:49:31 PM
S-AFC don't have many input points, should take 1hr or less after its installed (do it yourself). Why don't you splash out and get a g-ready e-manage $800, piggy back computer and very tunable.

Autospeed have an article with S-AFC going on a car (someone who works there i think). http://www.autospeed.com/A_0771/P_4/article.html

It wasn't urmine it was whatsisname i was thinking of who has the malpassi. Bigger fuel pump too.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 27, 2002, 12:52:12 PM
sorry $800 isn't free is it. Doh! Its a free horsepower thread.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ethan_R33 on March 27, 2002, 01:24:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rev210
I think there is a possibillity that you farquared the S-AFC tune, but I hope not.  


Oh crap, i was hoping i havent.....
I reset the ECU just before the S-AFC tune, so i thought that if i reset it again, it would go back to how it was then.

What is the Greddy emanage like? Will it do fuel/ignition timing and remove boost/speed restrictors?
Im looking at getting a power fc, but if the e-manage can do the same sort of thing, then maybe thats a better idea.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on March 27, 2002, 01:52:18 PM
You would notice a difference of almost 40rwkw but, if the sfac was thrown out i would think that you would lose that 40rwkw.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 28, 2002, 07:50:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ethan_R33


Oh crap, i was hoping i havent.....
I reset the ECU just before the S-AFC tune, so i thought that if i reset it again, it would go back to how it was then.

What is the Greddy emanage like? Will it do fuel/ignition timing and remove boost/speed restrictors?
Im looking at getting a power fc, but if the e-manage can do the same sort of thing, then maybe thats a better idea.


Check it out at http://www.greddy.com/products/electronics_frame.htm

Power FC is darn good but, there are plans for boost control modules for this one and real time data logging is a feature.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ethan_R33 on March 28, 2002, 09:09:07 AM
rev210,
it looks like the emanage is just a specialised fuel computer. It doesnt even do ignition timing.
So really its just like a S-AFC am i right???
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 28, 2002, 11:36:41 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ethan_R33
rev210,
it looks like the emanage is just a specialised fuel computer. It doesnt even do ignition timing.
So really its just like a S-AFC am i right???


Does timing AND fuel map with the software.

Can do boost control and additional injectors.

Nice unit, a hell of a lot better than just an S-AFC huh.:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 29, 2002, 02:28:32 AM
Quote
sorry $800 isn't free is it. Doh! Its a free horsepower thread.
.....hehehe:D ....we'll let you off this time;) ...it's an interesting debate you're having, plus there can't be many Free Mods out there that we haven't covered already.....

Cheers dudes,

Jon.
Title: City polk
Post by: Timber on March 30, 2002, 01:24:44 AM
For Cold air in the sub I used flexy pipe going from the standard filter box (with kn panel) down through some plastic crap and coming out to catch air where the standard spotlights were normally positioned. I used a spraycan cap as a cover if I was on the gravel roads.  

Timber
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Timber on March 30, 2002, 01:33:27 AM
Damn annoying when you reply to something that isnt there anymore........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 30, 2002, 03:58:51 AM
Quote
Damn annoying when you reply to something that isnt there anymore........

..........missed that one then......whatwassit??????????

:D

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on April 03, 2002, 09:17:48 AM
OMG 20,000+ views.

Where can i get this flexi pipe. I've been to every hardware shop and auto-shop.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 03, 2002, 11:53:27 PM
Quote
OMG 20,000+ views.

....yeah, but 10,000 are probably me,.....
....5,000 are 4nick8...( where are you dude?)
....2500 are flupstar.......

hehehehehe:D :D :D

Seriously though, for the financially challenged like myself, this little thread has been a Godsend......
(just look at all the custom cold air partitions popping up around this site....)

We seem to have pretty much exhausted the pool of FREE mods.....but there are some good cheap ones around, and some damned good advice on more expensive mods, and how not to get ripped off by people selling stuff....

What's most important is what works best for the money.....'cos most places roung here see a Skyline pull in, and think "this guy must be loaded....let's grab as much as we can"
......we need them to be thinking " this guy knows his stuff....let's sort him out"

So, I guess it's out with the FREE horsepower (although any new suggestions will be gratefully accepted).....and in with the budget-conscious mods, whether you do them yourself or not.....

....now we have a pretty good idea of what mods we can do for next to nothing, let's have a list of improvements in order of cost and/or BHP increase..........

......and , for the hard of understanding, please, if you suggest any brand names or product abbreviations....please take the time to explain what they are, and what they do.....;)

Apologies for the overly long post.......

Thanks, and let's hear from you all....

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on April 04, 2002, 03:30:41 AM
Ok well I think I've mentioned this before..


Fuel Pressure Bleed Kit over the Fuel Computer..

The Fuel Pressure Bleed Kit is $70.

It bleeds a little bit of pressure from the fuel pressure reg. when on boost as to trick the reg. in to thinking there is less boost therefor less fuel pressure is passed through.

I've had one fitted to my R32 when she was stock and i picked up 10rwkw and quite a bit of economy.
I get 470km's to a tank of juice and that is driving around town.

Tim @ RPM fitted the Fuel Pressure Bleed and when I dropped the car off yesterday to get the clutch,flwheel (chrome molly) and boost bleed fitted had a bloke there doing an article on the fuel pressure reg. bleed kit.

Tim's R33 with std turbo FMIC and Exhaust was getting 171rwkw with the Fuel pressure bleed, running 13psi boost if i can remember correctly.

Not to bad when you consider bang for buck.

Any comments on how this may not be a good way?

The Bleed actually better suited with this type of setup over the setup that is used for the boost bleed.

i.e you don't have to worry about the delay(spikes) caused by intercooler & its plumbing because there isn't any.

It will do me anyhow until I get all of the mods finished and then I'll get the R32 :dfinger:  ECU Tuned :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GT-R Ben on April 04, 2002, 03:33:24 AM
about bleeding off the Reg?

Why not just put the boost up a couple of pounds.. it is sure going to need the fuel then.
This will give you more power. :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Doctor on April 04, 2002, 04:20:06 AM
When your running stock turbo its a bit risky.

Doc
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GT-R Ben on April 04, 2002, 04:25:15 AM
14psi is all good.

And if it does drop off, keep your foot up her and send the wheel into a near by paddock :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GT-R Ben on April 04, 2002, 04:28:07 AM
There are difference in stock turbo's to.

Not sure if it is 100%, but on my GTS-4 wht stock turbo was ballbearing.
There is a small nut on the center housing, some have it some don't..
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Doctor on April 04, 2002, 04:39:29 AM
Don't all factory skyline turbo's have a ball bearing centre?

Into the next paddock,thats funny.

Doc
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on April 11, 2002, 02:22:23 AM
My car is finally back!!!!

Only took 10 weeks.

I am now running 205 rwkw at about 15psi boost (spiking as high as 18 in 3rd)

Finally!!!:D :D :D :D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 11, 2002, 12:31:49 PM
MFX: Woohoo....welcome back buddy.....:D

All: Top free tip of the day......(apologies if you all know this already....I didn't)
.....R33 GTR exhaust systems fit straight on ALL R33s.....even the RB20 non-turbo......even the 4-door....!!!
(the guy who bought my previous 4-door GTS has just bought one and bolted it straight on)

......and I owned that car for 18 months and couldn't find an exhaust anywhere.....Grrr :headbutt:

....I know it's bloody loud with one box and no turbo, and there is possibly no benefit from putting such a large bore pipe on a N/A motor......but it's good to know theres an easy option for those whose cars are not listed in the performance catalogues....

....Free tip No2: R33 non-turbo brakes are Nissan 200sx(180) 1989-1993 model.
.....R33 turbo brakes(typeM) are Nissan 300zx items......
...this may help people source parts in countries where the Skyline is not listed in your local parts shop.....without having to resort to paying silly import prices....

Hope this helps someone, take care all

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on April 11, 2002, 01:22:17 PM
Also to add to that..

For Aussy..
Every one might know this..

but..

The Waterpumps.. are the same as a RB30 block (R31 Skyline or VL Commodore)

Thermostats are the same as the RB30 (R31 Skyline or VL Commodore)

Headgaskets. For the RB25 are the same as the RB30 (same as above)

RB20DET have the same brakes/disks as the Z32 300ZX.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 12, 2002, 12:54:02 AM
Thanks for the info Joel.....

(this may not be free horsepower, but it's free info....that might save a few bucks for some mods:) )

...Oh, and all the oil filters are the same, and the R33GTSt shares the same air filter as the stock R33GTR...(and the 200SX and the Pulsar GTiR)

(not that you'd want a stock air filter anyways....:D )

.....and the fuel filters are common....

Take care all....

PEACE, LOVE AND FREE INFORMATION.....

Jon.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on April 12, 2002, 03:39:19 AM
I've got a list of part no's etc. on my www site that I am slowly building up over time.

Let me know if the fonts don't display properly.

I'm just getting in to this www home page stuff and i don't know what happens if you don't have the same font that i'm using.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 17, 2002, 01:28:58 AM
Good work dude.....top site.....keep it up....:)

Take care,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on April 26, 2002, 05:44:37 AM
Super dodgy boost increaser.

I put a nice little reticulation part in the intake tube feed that goes to the factory solenoid.

Thus far I've had some fun tricking the boost to spike to 13psi (doesn't go higher) when the revs hit about 4500rpm. It has given a 3 stage boost effect but, like all spikes it sometimes doesn't happen (does most of the time). I get better traction off the line and mostly 13psi from the end of 1st all the way to 4th (I keep the rpm over 4500 through gear changes when draging.

Teach the ECU who's the boss!

On the super dodgy side I recovered my top end from the last ecu reset by covering part of my panel filter, with a peice of cardboard sheet. Put it over the top of the K&N and then shut the air box, reset the computer, give it some herbs for 20kms and then take the restricting cardboard out. Ha ha I say as my top end leaness has returned. Thank goodness for the stupid computer. I admit this is not an exact science but, for those who risk much for the sake of budget tally ho! :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 28, 2002, 02:13:43 AM
Small yet significant point for all you K+N users....( and other panel filter fans)

...R33 GTS25t..is the same air filter as R33 GT-R....200SX....300ZX.....Pulsar/Sunny GTiR.....Primera GT.....etc etc.....

....so, if you prefer the increased power of a replacement panel, without the noise of a cone and CAP.....and you live in a country that doesn't list the R33 GTSt in the performance catalogues......this should help you a little......:)

Take care all...

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 02, 2002, 01:41:10 AM
Hi all......

Two quick questions......

1) does anyone do uprated bush kits for the R33.....as the old boat is nine years young, and starting to feel a little sloppy now??

2) Almost qualifying as free mods.....it's time to look for some new tyres.....and as I've got to buy some anyway, what brands do you all recommend as best performance for the money??

Thanks all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on May 02, 2002, 10:45:17 AM
Toyo T1s, they will transform the old barge, especially if your running on Jap tyres at the moment.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on May 02, 2002, 05:47:01 PM
The Toyo's are good for bends and crap for launches (sidewalls are very rigid). They wear out very fast indeed (soft compound).

I've just changed to a 'cheap arse' Simex brand, no where near as good as toyo around bends (thanks in part to the profile being '55') but man are they good to launch with. Toyos would smoke up if ya floored it in first at any time and a little in 2nd.
These cheapo tyres will forgive a flooring in 1st from a rolling start and only chirp with a satisfing chassis wiggle into 2nd.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 03, 2002, 12:52:56 AM
Interesting......
...I'm on cheapo Nangkangs at the moment.....only 'cos that's the "new" set of tyres they threw in when I bought the car.....
....they've served me well really.....pretty hard-wearing and grippy in the dry.....but on damp corners it's like a scared cat on a shiny floor.....:rolleyes:

.......so, all I want for Christmas is a set of tyres that last forever, stick like s**t to a blanket in the wet and in the dry, and cost next to nothing.......

....is that too much to ask??:D

Goodyear Eagles used to float my boat back in my Cossie days.....anyone use these on the Skyline??

Take care all,

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND STICKY TYRES.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on May 03, 2002, 02:19:19 AM
Jon,

Your not after much are yoou ;)

You don't get sticky blanket tyres with long lasting compounds, and you know it :rolleyes:

For the UK roads, I'd recomend just plumping for the tyre with the best wet weather manners, as it will mostly be wet anyhow.

Can you get Goodyear Eagles in the right width / profile ?

I'd still go for the Toyo Proxes T1s, they are a reasonable price / performance purchase. I got 2 235x45x17 & 2 255x40x17 for just under £400.

PM Keith and ask his opinion of them.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 06, 2002, 12:27:03 AM
Jason....I always ask for much......
.....don't usually get, but sometimes.......:D

...I know I'm asking the impossible....but the nearest offer wins....

....I had 17s on my last Skyline, and it tramlined like a Bas**rd....

.....so I'm sticking with the stock 16s on this one......a bit squishy on the bends maybe, but better on these UK potholes, and grippier off the mark.....

.....so, Toyos are the choice for you......any other suggestions out there??

Take care out there....

Jon.
Title: tyres
Post by: G-sport on May 06, 2002, 12:41:40 AM
I've had Goodyear F1's in 225/50/16 on my car with R32 gtr rims and the handling was Nice. They are excellent wet tyres. Bridgestone S02/3 are awesome but don't last like the F1's.

I've just changed up to 17" wheels and know using Dunlop sport too early to tell but broke traction in second exiting a roundabout today in the bone dry with 245's on.

Garth.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 06, 2002, 01:20:49 AM
Garth:....cheers 4 the reply dude......
.....just one question.....
......where the farking hell have you been????.....we thought yo were dead!!!!!!

.....way to make a dramatic entrance dude....on a boring tyre question.....:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

....where have you been????

See ya soon hopefully.....you're not exactly at the other end of the earth hehe....

Take care dude,

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND GLOBAL HORSEPOWER.......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on May 06, 2002, 04:50:24 AM
I've got 225 50' 16" Goodyear F1's on the rear of my 32 at the mo.

They are very very good in the wet.

They seem to be chewing out in the middle, on the standard 6.5 width rims :(

Running 32psi..
Title: Project R32
Post by: RWS on May 07, 2002, 12:04:48 AM
I thought I would stick this here and become a part of the world's longest Skyline thread :), as I gained some very useful info from this thread, plus other areas on this and member's excellent sites, cheers lads....

Well I recently bought (02/04/02) a R32 GTS-t 4 door (cheap too :)), which came with a turbo bleed valve fitted, I've since done some servicing bits and recently a dyno run, or four :), and here's the story so far.... Project R32 (http://www.skylinegts.co.uk/Project_R32.htm)

Thanks

RonS
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on May 07, 2002, 04:09:22 AM
I have 255/35R18 FULDA's on my car at all four corners. They seem to last really well (considering the way I drive) but the traciton is not great.

Jeff
Title: water pump
Post by: james-r33 on May 08, 2002, 11:54:17 AM
just a note to let you know that the vl rb30 water pumpmay not be the same .

i work at repco and when i got my car i put a new water pump in it the one we had listed for the car was the same as the vl one when fitting it we found that yes they did look the same but one bolt hole was dif , in sted of being oval it was round like a normal one it is on the top of the water pump off to the right on the long end of it .

the pump number we use at repco is v3114
but double check on that.

just thought i better tell you , it may be dif in ozy but for us kiwi's that is what the prob is



:splat:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on May 08, 2002, 03:47:48 PM
hrmmm .. Rb30 water pump different...

Is that the same brand as Motor Mates / Sprint Auto Parts/ Roco Bro's and all of the other auto-shops or is that the Repco brand?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 09, 2002, 01:21:16 AM
Hi all.....thanx 4 the suggestions on tyres....

RWS: Hi there......well done for a bloody brilliant UK site......I first found it many many moons ago when I was searching for UK info on the GTS......and then it vanished.......

....and now you're back with a vengeance.....:)

.....anything I can do to help, just ask.....

P.S:....were you there at the Banzai day? If so, what were you driving??

Take care,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on May 09, 2002, 01:51:23 AM
The water pump on my car went and I used  a VL one with no problems.

Jeff.
Title: Hi there
Post by: RWS on May 10, 2002, 12:36:14 AM
Hi Jon,

Thanks for the compliments on my site (blush).... and the offer of help, I'll bear it mind..

Sadly I didn't make the Banzai day, but seen the movie :)

Cheers

RonS
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 14, 2002, 12:39:00 AM
Hi all.....

No more ideas on this little planet?  Is this the end of the Free Horsepower thread??  Has it served it's purpose here? Run it's course? Have I done all I can to my ride without having to open my wallet??
   All the ideas brought forward by you superstars seem to have been sorted and well documented by the minor Deity that is GraemeWI.........keep up the good work dude.....

Dammit.....always thought we could make 1000 replies.....:(

....suppose I should go get a Supra and play with that now.....

(Joking)
SDU for ever!!!!!!!!

cheers all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on May 14, 2002, 06:34:59 AM
Wait a little longer I've got a couple of el cheapo mods on the way just to keep things going.

I've mentioned on another thread the use of the stock boost solenoid and I've completed some measurements so I'll begin this soon and post results. I',m even going to have a crack at a dual solenoid setup.

In the mean time I have a very interesting mod on the drawing board that deals with thermal efficiency mods for less than $50. On paper it should be worth about 20% drop in temp at the intake.

Stay tuned:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 15, 2002, 02:52:37 AM
Rev210:
.....now THIS might be worth keeping the thread open for.....



...the world awaits......

:D

Take care,

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE, AND MAYBE A BIT MORE CHEAP HORSEPOWER.......
Title: about that water pump
Post by: james-r33 on May 21, 2002, 11:10:49 AM
had one come in to work the other day and yes the rb20de r32
take the vl ones .
it semes though that the ones that we source at repco are different for the r33 and the r32 i though that when i told them the diff that they super sceed the vl one's to this part number so it was sweet for every one but looks like that wont happen .

sorry that i might have worked some people up . see ya:laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on May 21, 2002, 12:32:06 PM
She's right mate.. We all make mistakes.. :laugh:

Just some of us do it more than others ;)
Title: free sort of power
Post by: V8eta on May 21, 2002, 12:58:49 PM
Im not sure if this has been covered earlier in the thread but ina bid to get 1000replies to the free horsepower thread here it goes.

A good free mod to do is remove the plate that covers your ignition coils. It gets very very hot under there and can lead to your coil packs dying very quickly. Remove the ecu unit and either mount to the firewall or on a custom bracket, and then run no cover. Much more reliablity from your coils, plus better firing.
jeff

p.s.
may the free horsepower live on :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on May 21, 2002, 01:26:29 PM
I have thought about this mod but isn't water an issue with the Coils also.

I noticed that the center coil cover has a bead of what looks like dry silicon that helps seal out water.

hrmmm..

How about fitting a couple of 8cm's Sunon High Speed 50-60CFM fans ..

One in the front sucking and one in the back Blowing.

Then rig up a couple of bonnet air intakes and fabricate them so they collect COLD AIR!! :) Lots of it.. *joking*

On that note i was flicking through a 4WD mag at work and noticed that I think it is the new patrol or one of those have a IC that is mounted like the Suby's and they(nissan or who ever) had mounted a 12" fan on top blowing air through the core.

It would be interesting to measure the amount of air that actually flows out the back of a fmic then mount a couple of 12" fans on the back of the FMIC and then see the difference in air flow..

I't would have to be better than having no fan.

I've got 2 12" thermo's on my radiator and they really do pump out some air.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on May 21, 2002, 01:32:29 PM
I removed the coil pack cover with no side effects at all in fact it makes life easier if your running copper plugs to change them even I can do them in an hour.
meggala
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 22, 2002, 10:18:44 PM
Nice one V8eta....:)
.....if only for the ease of plug changing, as Meggala suggests....

Keep up the good work all,

Jon.
Title: Tyres!!!!!!!!!!
Post by: DEVEUS on May 23, 2002, 12:05:25 PM
Jon,  sorry been gone a while but to bring up your subject again, just bought a set of 18" DTM wheels in Chrome and Goodyear Eagle F1's - 225/40x18!  Nice tyre.  Seem to hold pretty well so far.  A far cry from the ol' Standard Type 'M' wheels and Champiro Tyres by GT Radial. :D :D I'll try and post sum pics!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 25, 2002, 12:29:43 AM
Deveus:
Good to hear from ya again dude....where ya been??

....Interested to hear how those Eagles perform over time.....

Take care....and let's see some pics

Jon.
Title: The end.....
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 01, 2002, 02:45:52 AM
Hi there all.......
....well, with all the ****e flying around about SDU etc........
....and Pay-per-view coming to a car club near you.....
....seems like members are leaving in droves......

....so, to paraphrase the great Jim.....

THIS IS THE END.......THE ONLY END, MY FRIEND.........

Catch you all on GTR.CO.UK.......
.....it may be down for the odd 24 hours....(not the odd week or so....:rolleyes: )
.....but at least it's free.........

Take care everyone......shame that politics came between me and 1000 posts...:D

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND FREE HORSEPOWER......
(I've been saying that for so long...)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on June 19, 2002, 07:23:55 AM
Project Frozen intake has begun!

I have got almost all the information and parts together to make a start. This mod should net a major decrease in boosted intake temperature.

The technology used is the 'peltier effect', and I have sourced some unusually high spec mats that I will fix to the standard ic along with fans and heatsinks. These babies are very powerfull and will drop the metal in direct contact with them below zero, so hopefully it should produce some interesting results.

Free-horsepower lives again!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on June 19, 2002, 08:28:25 AM
What the What the ???????

Tell me more......

What are these mats made out of?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: daz59 on June 19, 2002, 10:02:32 AM
The peltier needs so much power to run its not worth it, a peltier to cool a PC CPU will use around 200watts, if your going to use one big enough to cover the whole I/C youll be looking at so much power drain from the battery......

A peltier is an electronic package that consists of two sides - the hot side and cold side. By energizing the peltier, this package transfers heat from the cold side to the hot side. The hot side requires a heatsink to move the heat from the hot side to someplace else - if not, the cold side gets hot. The more efficient the removal of heat from the hot side, the colder the cold side will become. It is not uncommon to get a 65 C difference between the two sides.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on June 19, 2002, 11:17:52 AM
REV210..

Problem solved..

Buy bran New BIG AMP Biggest you can find Alternator.

It will probably die anyhow as they all do eventually.. ;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on June 19, 2002, 12:06:10 PM
2x 8.0A 12v peltiers are not going to draw that much power, you also can switch them off after freezing the ic, daz59. Certainly covering an entire ic would drain a fair wack of power thats not what I'm doing. Besides if you want to freeze your ic real fast just buy some freeze spray form dicksmith.

No one has done this before so I am anticipating some mucking around to get the right placement. The type of peltiers I've got are super efficient so I am hoping to see some good temp drops.

If it works the drag on the alternator won't matter, its stuff all power loss there compared to the gains. It will also offer those of us with stock ic's the option of holding on a little longer before opting for the front mount.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on June 19, 2002, 12:45:44 PM
Some how replace the std fins with the peltiers then some how maybe cut down the std fins and use them as the heat sink, rig up a 12" fan and slap in in front of the std IC?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on June 19, 2002, 12:47:46 PM
Hrmmm on second thoughts if this doesn't go that well how about a water to air IC with the peltier cooling the water??
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on June 19, 2002, 02:18:30 PM
Hi,
Rev210 - have you done a power balance across the intercooler?

You can calculate the approximate mass flow of air by combining the engine displacement, cylinder fill rate and rpm.

You can then use this mass flow with the specific heat of air to calculate how much power your peltiers will need to suck out of the airflow to lower it's temperature by a set amount (say 1 degree C).

Perhaps at this stage you could measure the temperature of the air coming out of the turbo at full boost, and then work out how much you're going to have to lower the temp of the air to get an estimated power increase (estimate power increase by other people's experiences with intercooler performances)

Then using the efficiency of the peltiers you can calculate how much power you're going to need to pump into them.

I would think it would be kW, rather than watts of power required to cool the intercooler (to any noticeable degree) when running at full noise. That's not such a big deal if you're getting that power for free (like in an air-to-air intercooler), but it's a big deal if you're paying for it in engine power and fuel.

This is assuming a steady state condition of course. If you cool the intercooler down with the engine not boosting, then boost I guess you may get some measurable power increase (if you're REALLY quick on the dyno - the specific heat of aluminium isn't high, and you don't have many kg's in an intercooler).

240ZT
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 20, 2002, 01:22:02 AM
.....ah well, I guess I'm wrong as ever......you just can't keep  good thread down.....:rolleyes:

.......now watching with interest to see what comes of this little debate.......
.......I think I suggested strapping a refrigerator around the intake on the first pages of this thread....

.......How are you SDU guys doing anyway??....

Take care all, respect to JasonO......;)

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND FREE HORSEPOWER......:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on June 20, 2002, 01:32:26 AM
Well - I guess to contradict myself, didn't a large car manufacturer patent a refrigerated intercooler system a while back?
240ZT
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 20, 2002, 01:49:41 AM
...maybe......but hey.......
....if it's patented, it's got to be a good idea?????????

....PEACE, LOVE AND COLD INTAKE CHARGES.....

Take care,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: daz59 on June 20, 2002, 09:27:50 AM
If it was to work, this is how i would do it.

cool the I/C with a big Peltier, then cool the Peltier with water, maybe the watter cooling the engine? or maybe that would be a little hot.....

but youll need more then just a little 12 volt fan to cool it......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on June 20, 2002, 09:38:20 AM
A friend and I was going to do a water/air conversion to the stock intercooler.  After a bit of investigating we found out that the stock cooler has a massive presure drop accross it at high than stock boost levels.

So we decided to can the idea.  Cooling the charged air will without a question increase power, but you still have to contend with the presure drop - which means if you boosting to 12-14psi, the turbo is actually spinning at aroun 18-20psi, and therefore is right out of it's effiecincy range.

But what you have planned is good, and should work well if it doesn't cost much.  That's what this is all about hay - free horsepower :D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 240ZT on June 20, 2002, 11:20:50 AM
Hey how about this idea,
Seal up your car's engine cooling system REALLY REALLY GOOD!
Replace your water pump with a commercial airconditioning compressor.
Take out all your engine coolant (water, ethylene glycol) and replace it with R-12 (refrigerant).
Insert a thermostatic expansion valve where the coolant enters the block, and make sure the pump is just before the radiator.

THEN

seal up all the holes that let air in and out of the duct your intercooler sits in, and connect the chamber to your new engine cooling system

There you have it - your own refrigerated engine & inlet cooling system! The only problem is your engine will never get hot enough to function properly, and you might open your engine bay to find big chunks of ice forming on the block...

but on the upside - your inlet temps will be almost nothing, and you if you relocate the battery to the boot you could probably keep a six pack where it used to go.

now I'm just being silly.

240ZT
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: daz59 on June 20, 2002, 11:24:09 AM
hahahahahaha :dfinger:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on June 20, 2002, 01:33:15 PM
This 'peltier' idea actually sounds good, but I think only one person mentioned cooling the peltier. If the Peltier is mounted with ducting directing cold air to the 'hot' side of it, and only activated when moving we could be onto something.

I don't think it would be viable for continous use, but the initial cooling effect on the charge would be great.

Has anyone measured the difference in charge temperature, as the inlet passes over the top of the block on the RB25DET ?
Could the peltier be used in this location instead of on the intercooler ?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on June 20, 2002, 01:40:18 PM
Quote
respect to JasonO

Jon,

The title of that PM was class :dude and it had exactly the desired effect. :D

Welcome Back.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on June 21, 2002, 05:14:09 AM
On the issue of cooling the peltiers.

These peltiers are stackable and in doing so you increase the heat transfer potential across the same surface area. One cools the other etc. I don't propose to do this to begin with as I'm trying to lower the intake charge continuously, not just initialy. Though this method would be more effective at quickly droping the temp of the ic metal with no boost present I believe.

There are some fantastic heat sinks out there for overclocking, utilising some very funky copper technology in the heat sink construction and some very efficient fans. These babys can move alot of heat out very quickly. A nicely over clocked cpu these days will heat a small room faster than most portable electric heaters.

Anyway for those of you with an interest in having a crack at this too you can check out a manufacturers site for more peltier info ( industry applications/ specs etc.). http://www.melcor.com
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on June 22, 2002, 04:02:05 PM
Here's a good one.

You know the factory rubber pipe that connects the AFM to the turbo inlet pipe. It has a spring inside it, looks like an accordian.

Well its the same pipe sort as used on the VL turbo and others and according to autospeed's article on modding the VL it's very restrictive. They reccomend just replacing it with a regular silicon rubber elbow and bam! more HP. The time for 0-100 dropped form 7.60 sec to 7.45sec (not bad at all).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on June 22, 2002, 04:02:46 PM
Here's a good one.

You know the factory rubber pipe that connects the AFM to the turbo inlet pipe. It has a spring inside it, looks like an accordian.

Well its the same pipe sort as used on the VL turbo and others and according to autospeed's article on modding the VL it's very restrictive. They reccomend just replacing it with a regular silicon rubber elbow and bam! more HP. The time for 0-100 dropped form 7.60 sec to 7.45sec (not bad at all) the link is .http://www.autospeed.com/A_0779/P_5/article.html
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on June 23, 2002, 03:43:11 AM
hrmm. I have thought about this btw.. Autospeed also did a test on factory airbox's and apparently the bell mouth ones like the skyline ones are a huge restriction. The VS V8 Commodore Air box without the cold air intake over the radiator is apparently the most free flowing airbox to the tests date. I'm not sure about the new vt's or what ever.

Anyway so if i look at getting a slightly different shapped silicon hose between the turbo and afm i could possible fit one of these suckers in.
Title: R33 GTS-t Cold Air Box Template
Post by: Jay95R33 on June 24, 2002, 12:38:02 PM
WooooHooooo...

It's finally done.

It can be found here.

http://forums.skylinesdownunder.co.nz/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14810

Jayson
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on June 24, 2002, 12:46:32 PM
Hey Jayson could you save the Pics in Jpg for Web Use???

High Quality Btw.. Very slow for us modem users :(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on June 24, 2002, 12:50:07 PM
Joel,

They are in JPG format !!!!

The first 5 or 6 are around 200-300kb, but the rest are about 80-130kb.

Sorry if it's slow - damn bigpond :splat: :splat:

BTW:  the site only has a 100mb download per month!  I hope I don't run out......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MR>E on June 25, 2002, 06:52:18 AM
Well it took 2 days but I finally read the whole thread :coffee

Great read.

Think it should be put to print :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meh on June 25, 2002, 07:04:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rev210
On the issue of cooling the peltiers.

These peltiers are stackable and in doing so you increase the heat transfer potential across the same surface area. One cools the other etc. I don't propose to do this to begin with as I'm trying to lower the intake charge continuously, not just initialy. Though this method would be more effective at quickly droping the temp of the ic metal with no boost present I believe.

There are some fantastic heat sinks out there for overclocking, utilising some very funky copper technology in the heat sink construction and some very efficient fans. These babys can move alot of heat out very quickly. A nicely over clocked cpu these days will heat a small room faster than most portable electric heaters.

Anyway for those of you with an interest in having a crack at this too you can check out a manufacturers site for more peltier info ( industry applications/ specs etc.). http://www.melcor.com






To start with, the average computer power supply is about 300watts, the CPU uses about 75watts (http://www17.tomshardware.com/cpu/02q2/020610/thoroughbred-05.html), so for a computer to supply the equivalent heat of a 1100watt heater (small) it would have to be on almost 4 times as long!

As for the peltier idea, the concept is good but unfortunately you can't ignore the mathematics in the real world.   A 2.5L engine with one bar(~14.7 psi) boost will need to dissipate about 16KW of heat energy at 6000RPM.  Now obviously the engine isn't operating under these conditions 100% of the time, you have to consider the thermal mass of the system.  The intercooler absorbs the 16KW spike, and its temp will increase acordingly, it will then dissipate the heat at some slower rate dependant on your speed, air temp etc etc.
Modelling the turbo-intercooler as a very conservative individual system, and assuming the heatloads are roughly proportional to engine revs, you would average about 12KW of heat energy during a 0-100km/hr flat out run.
So if you were to try and "freeze" the cooler to a point were it would noticeably cool inlet temperatures, you would need to remove ~6seconds of 2KW of heat  (will equate to a few degrees drop).  I doubt the intercooler would have enough mass to accomodate this.
Now the specs on your peltier pads say the maximum heat transfer is roughly 75watts for a 40mmX40mm pad, with Delta T = 0(ie the point where one side is no longer cooler than the other).   Even with two at 75watts you would need to cool the intercooler for well over a minute to generate a thermal buffer (you could ask the other guy to wait at the lights for you!), assuming the heat sink on the back of the peltier is capable of this(you must consider this heatsink also has to cope with the 8amps at 12v worth of dissipated energy aswell).
As for flat out steady state operation, even if you could supply enough power to them, you would need around 200 peltier devices to get any decent temperature differential.

Also what do these peltier devices cost?  Obvious thermal inability aside, wouldn't you be better off spending the money on a bigger intercooler or copper turbo to intercooler pipes?  Nothing is "free".
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meh on June 25, 2002, 07:24:12 AM
Just to explain that chart a little.

S1 is the inlet conditions...ambient conditions.

CMP1 is the compressor...it makes a few assumptions but its pretty close to turbo's compressor.

S2 is the outlet of the compressor...the air in the pipe between the outlet of the turbo and the inlet of the intercooler.

CLR1 is the intercooler...its modelled as not having a pressure drop across it(which we know they do) but this doesn't effect the thermal system that much.

S3 is the air just before it enters the engine.

The surrounding windows are labeled and correspond to each component.

The number to look at is the "q-dot" in the CLR1 figures.

We could model the whole engine but its not necessary.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 27, 2002, 10:12:31 AM
Jay:....you superstar.....spreading the cold air word.....(and template:D ).......the world loves ya.....

MR>E.....well done patient dude.....go get some sleep.....;)

meh/joel/rev........you techy buggers hehehe....keep it coming...we love it!!!

Jason: cheers 4 the kick up the ass again buddy.....see ya soon..

Take care all.......and remember how lucky we are to be living in the age of internal combustion:D
(a few years either way, it would be horses or electric cars)

......enjoy it while it lasts........

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on June 27, 2002, 12:26:53 PM
Jon,

Remember your with SDU at JAE ;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: daz59 on June 27, 2002, 06:10:00 PM
This is a silly idea i guess, but....

what about somthing that sucks the exhaust gass out?
sorta working like a turbo.....it would suck the piston up witch would give you more power?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GraemeWi on June 28, 2002, 08:20:18 AM
I've got some time to spare this week (I'm on holiday...in winter...yeah right!) Is it worth writing the contents of this thread into a stand-alone book ie. a PDF?

Daz59 - a couple of years ago (mmmm mid 80's?) there was a gimmick that yo could bolt onto the end of your exhaust. It has vanes that spun and were marketed as being able to suck out your exhaust for more power. I remember only people like geeky school teachers buying them :p
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on June 28, 2002, 09:10:18 AM
Right on Graeme, it is worth puting into a standalone book, or extract the best bits for the 'Skyline Book'.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GraemeWi on June 28, 2002, 01:25:57 PM
I've gone through the thread and hopefully got all the best bits.

There needs to be a lot more done to the text as it stands. The airbox designs don't really suit...I figure a text desription and a link to the templates and / or pictures.

Also need to come up with a home-brew boost controller, something like SlowGTSt's and Arithons setup (that way it works both on the R32 and R33)

My eyes hurt.

First cut available here (http://www.powerlink.co.nz/~graeme/fhpbook.zip)

GW
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on June 29, 2002, 01:22:29 PM
IC peltier is going on this afternoon, devcon liquid metal waiting to set.

Post results when done.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Jay95R33 on June 29, 2002, 03:57:26 PM
Rev210,

I'm real keen to see how you go.

J
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Zapf on June 30, 2002, 03:13:55 AM
How about integrating the turbo and cylinder into something that works more closely together?      And treating the cylinder like a pulse jet?    What about integrating the compressor / exhaust wheel into one unit?     Anyone heard of Vortex tubes?....  it seprates a pressurised stream of air into cold ones and warm ones......   I wonder if we can replace an intercooler with those....

I am talking about an integrated turbo pulse jeted piston engine system....       well here is my dream anyway...

Zapf
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 30, 2002, 09:01:05 AM
.....OK then Zapf.......

.....You build it, I'll test drive it..........

:D :D

Take care all.....

Jon.....


P.S:....if this makes a book, can I sign it?????:rolleyes:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GraemeWi on June 30, 2002, 09:08:53 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
P.S:....if this makes a book, can I sign it?????:rolleyes:


Sure - send me a scan of your signature and I'll put it in the intro!

You just got the 888th post, all those 8's will bring good fortune.

GW
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 30, 2002, 09:31:38 AM
Quote
Sure - send me a scan of your signature and I'll put it in the intro!

...hehehe....just a mention would be enough for me......

P.P.S: I've said this before folks, but Graeme is somewhat of a minor Deity!!!!

Very very cool book dude.......:cool:

Take care all....

Jon.;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Zapf on June 30, 2002, 01:22:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Zapf
How about integrating the turbo and cylinder into something that works more closely together?      And treating the cylinder like a pulse jet?    What about integrating the compressor / exhaust wheel into one unit?     Anyone heard of Vortex tubes?....  it seprates a pressurised stream of air into cold ones and warm ones......   I wonder if we can replace an intercooler with those....

I am talking about an integrated turbo pulse jeted piston engine system....       well here is my dream anyway...

Zapf



Hence... the piston sounds so low tech.... might as well make it an

"Integrated Turbo Pulse Jet Rotory engine" !!!      

Opps....  "Flame suit ON"
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on June 30, 2002, 06:34:45 PM
Quote
"Integrated Turbo Pulse Jet Rotory engine" !!!


For a second or two I figured he was serious, then he mentioned Rotory :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Zapf on July 01, 2002, 01:22:51 AM
Hay.... it does makes sense in an engine where every thing is turning..... including your turbo.....   everything except your pistons!      Oh well... I am doing some drawings....    I am sure it'll be fun   :D

not that I am going buy a rotory any time soon...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GraemeWi on July 01, 2002, 09:32:07 AM
Sounds like one of those Stirling heat engines.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on July 02, 2002, 01:28:37 AM
Peltier testing has begun!

I've so far only crudely tested the setup.
I performed a series of high boost and load runs over a pre-selected distance and checked the external temp of the intercooler at several points (with the hand). Yes I know hardly scientific but, I turned out I didn't need a very accurate tool to tell the difference. I plan to do this latter on anyway (just impatient thats all).

I did 6 tests first without the kit on and with the hand held out to touch the ic measurements varied from very hot to ouch!

The next 6 tests over the same distance and load produced surface temps I could not only touch but weren't remotley hot.

Note; I stopped the car straight away in each test and took the same time to touch the ic after stopping.

seat of the pants test (I give this far less credit) feels like more power is there. Vacume is better on 100kmhr cruize speed by 1/2 psi, boost up by 1/2 psi peak.

more soon but, hey I'm having fun
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on July 02, 2002, 02:13:19 AM
Rev210,

You got any photos of the peltier setup, might be interesting to invite comment on their positioning etc.

Good work so-far :dude
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on July 02, 2002, 12:48:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JasonO
Rev210,

You got any photos of the peltier setup, might be interesting to invite comment on their positioning etc.

Good work so-far :dude


I'll get my digi-camera from work and take a few shots. Should have done it step by step but, I'm too slack bout those things.

The one thing I stuffed up was mounting the heatsink so the air flows through the fins (ie facing forwards). Oh well I'll do that next time, it's stuck on with devcon so it aint never coming off.

You will notice the heat sink looks quite big on the stock intercooler.

I managed to break one of the peltiers as well, Doh!:homer: if you ever do this be very carefull with the wires coming off them they are hardly soldered on at all.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on July 03, 2002, 02:50:33 PM
crude pic  of the setup this is taken from the back of the ic, notice I have removed the inner guard (it is a good mod by itself).

After driving around for a few days switching it on and off I can confirm it is a kick ass mod.

I have given it a good hard booting to try and heat up the ic and I just can't even with the boost up from stock (I normally run 6-7psi) to 10/11psi. Without the gizmo on it gets stonkingly hot after a few bursts.

One day I'll stick a remote temp probe on 'when I can be bothered.

For the skeptics don't do the mod till I post some actual temp mesurements, for every other lemming ; fall of the cliff, the waters just fine.:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on July 03, 2002, 03:00:40 PM
On the way to 1000 POSTS!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on July 05, 2002, 09:11:32 AM
.....dammit Rev......I wanted post 900......:dfinger:

hehehe.....

:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on July 05, 2002, 09:33:45 AM
Quote
....PS: has anyone ever used electrically powered heat exchangers to cool the intake air...(like strapping a 12 volt refrigerator round your intake pipes?)

.......this thread, post 15......



Quote
Peltier testing has begun!  

.......this thread, post 896......

.....GO THE FREE MOD THREAD!!!!!!!!

:D :D :D

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on July 05, 2002, 10:32:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING

.......this thread, post 15......



 
.......this thread, post 896......

.....GO THE FREE MOD THREAD!!!!!!!!

:D :D :D

Jon.


Free Horsepower Thread Tour Guide

.......this thread - TINDUCK RACING
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on July 10, 2002, 11:06:59 AM
:D

;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GT-R r32 on July 10, 2002, 11:03:21 PM
Hey have yous heard this one?
Removing the wire mesh from the air flow meters on a GT-R gives a 11 % better flow.
They also said, changing the air flow meters to 300zx's only improves the flow 7%.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on July 17, 2002, 09:43:08 AM
Hi dude.....
......where did you get those figures??
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: NIZMAD on July 18, 2002, 10:11:31 PM
Hey guys, ledgendary tread!
must have taken me about 8-9 hours to read it all
spread over about 4 days!

sorry to dance arround a subject breifly covered allready
but to do with the hose from the turbo to the actuator,
theoreticaly the pressure difference between direct from the turbo to comeing from the plume to the actuator should make a considerable difference running the standard ic.


    yes? no? :confused:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on July 19, 2002, 08:39:32 AM
Ive been told the same thing... your actuator gets a more acurate reading..  or something like that.

anyone else got ne views on this?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on July 19, 2002, 09:01:31 AM
run that one by me again.....slowly.....;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on July 19, 2002, 11:04:32 AM
Tim @ RPM has tested removing the wire mesh.

He said that on a gtr it makes an extra 2rwkw by removing the mesh BUT it also makes it run richer due to the air not being so called smoothed out and the center air traveling faster etc so i gather 2rwkw + reducing the fuel a little again maybe 2.5rwkw?!? :)

I mainly noticed a difference with spooling when I removed the Mesh on the AFM.

For example with the FMIC there was a little more lag that made the car make full boost at around 3000rpm, i removed the mesh and it made boost 200rpm earlier, and seemed to make more boost from 2000rpm which helped drivability.

It also helped smooth out the cold running flat spot problems that I had with it.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on July 19, 2002, 12:38:58 PM
ive been told that if you take the line coming off the actuator to the turbo and replumb that to where you boost guage is (plenium chamber) that you get a more acurate boost levels. also supposedly increases power?

anyone know anything about this? coz it confused the hell out of me!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on July 19, 2002, 01:03:26 PM
I would think you would get more spiking. This would be due to the fact that, by the time the wastegate recieves the signal from the plenum, the pipes and i/c are still recieving higher boost. This to me would just cause a delay to what the wastegate see's.

Does that make sense to anyone? Or am I just confusing myself and you guys? Comments?

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: NIZMAD on July 19, 2002, 11:54:35 PM
HEY AGAIN


I think i'll try it out and I'll let you know how I get on
coz if the stock ic is restricting the pressure as much as
I think it is, then the difference should be fairly noticeable.


You guy's have been a great help over the last few days


keep up the good work!


and big it up 2 da free horsepower thread!

CHEERZ.............NIZMAD
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on July 20, 2002, 11:29:39 AM
It really does depend on what sort of Boost controller you have as the Turbosmart type Gated bleeds cause spiking anyway.

I've used a non-gated bleed which if I run it from the plenium I would have to set it up with a check valve to stop it sucking from vacuum.


It is supposed to be good for a stock IC setup but.

If you want accurate boost control i probably wouldn't go the gated ones anyhow.
I don't get any spiking with the setup I have at the moment.

Its kind of obvious really as what the gated is, that it doesn't allow any air to pass until a specified pressure is reached then air passes. this will obviously cause spikes as the wastegate is not opening slowly as early, but this is supposed to help boost response, they also use a type of restrictor setup with a smaller hole to prevent as much air passing as quickly.?!?!

A EBC always lets a little bit of pressure/air with a on off type setup (pulsation) this is why they can control boost so well with bringing boost on quicker.

Most of you all probably already know this...
Just in case there is a couple of Noob's around :)

If I'm wrong sort me out btw ppls.

That is the way I understand it. :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on July 31, 2002, 09:52:18 AM
Rev:
...how goes the Peltier?

Total success, and you're busy patenting the idea to make millions??

Keep us informed....

Jon.

;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 01, 2002, 12:15:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Rev:
...how goes the Peltier?

Total success, and you're busy patenting the idea to make millions??

Keep us informed....

Jon.

;)


It goes well my friend.

After driving around with it on and off it does certainly improve power (at least maintain it during otherwise warmer conditions).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 03, 2002, 10:16:30 AM
Rev:
Good to hear it...

......how about a dyno run with the system on then off??

(proof on paper, and all that)

....watching with interest...

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: coolgts on August 08, 2002, 02:47:37 PM
:D    this is huge guys!!!! Wicked read too!
Got a few questions though!?......might sound a bit funny to all the experts(i'm not 1)!These are for a  R32 GTS(non-turbo)
 1) is the ECU on the GTS-T the same as the one on the GTS (32's)
 2) is reseting the ECU on a non-turbo worth doing? Is it the same process? Do you get the same benefits???
 3) if it is this easy to cut the speed limiter, then can it be done to the rev limiter???
 4) are the diognostic codes listed previuosly the same for the RB20DE engines, and are the processes carried out the same way????

   and just repeating...this thread is the s*&t!!:dfinger:

   hope all those that have posted keep up the great work!!

   any help is much appreciated:cool:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: [TWUBLE] on August 08, 2002, 03:25:09 PM
1) no the ECU is different for the Turbo models...

2) Yes resetting the ECU on the 32 NA (GTS & GTS25) cars is the same..

3) Unsure what gains you would find doing the ECU Reset... I did it on my t and didnt notice much of a difference. One thing I did notice a HUGE difference from was getting the injectors cleaned (serviced with new filters in them) and replacing the Fuel Filter... id reccomend the same to anyone!

4) Unsure of the diag codes.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Zapf on August 08, 2002, 08:21:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Joel
Tim @ RPM has tested removing the wire mesh.

He said that on a gtr it makes an extra 2rwkw by removing the mesh BUT it also makes it run richer due to the air not being so called smoothed out and the center air traveling faster etc so i gather 2rwkw + reducing the fuel a little again maybe 2.5rwkw?!? :)

I mainly noticed a difference with spooling when I removed the Mesh on the AFM.

For example with the FMIC there was a little more lag that made the car make full boost at around 3000rpm, i removed the mesh and it made boost 200rpm earlier, and seemed to make more boost from 2000rpm which helped drivability.

It also helped smooth out the cold running flat spot problems that I had with it.


Could it be that its running more lean?  if so it'll be a hotter exhaust temp hence turbo spools up faster.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 09, 2002, 07:55:52 AM
Hi all....

Coolgts: hello and welcome...to answer your questions, no, yes, why and probably....in that order...;)

Twuble: hi dude...you're right about the injectors.....you've always got to get a car running right before you try to get it running better.....

Zapf: As far as I understand (and that's not far at all :D ).....removing the mesh should produce a negligible increase in flow overall, but the air at the centre of the afm flowing past the sensor will flow faster than average, making the ecu think there is slightly more air entering than there actually is, and so promoting overfuelling if anything....

......this is how I've been led to believe it works, please feel free to correct me...

Take care all.

Jon.

Peace, love and Skylines...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: coolgts on August 09, 2002, 10:08:39 PM
hey..thanks for the warm welcome.
Why you ask about the rev limiter?Dont know really??but is'nt more revs better?
Why is reseting the ECU on a n/a beneficial?? Does it perform any better after??
Some people have told me to dith the n/a skyline and buy the turbo model!but I love my car and want to what I can with hat I got!?! Is this stupid?.........should I go with forced induction?
Dont really want to though.......any other tips would be a great help too.FREE HORSEPOWER tips that is!even though its not as much horses as a turbo?!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 10, 2002, 08:17:09 AM
Hi coolgts...

Rev limiters are usually there for a reason...above a certain rpm, any engine will tear itself to bits due to the forces involved.
Anyway, I think the BHP curve will be tailing off by the time the limiter cuts in......anyone correct me if I'm wrong again..
(have you had your car dynoed ans seen a graph of power against revs?)
I can only assume that resetting the ecu on a n/a car has the same results as on a turbo......it should still relearn....
(all...again feel free to correct me :) )
...and finally, if you love your car, keep it....
( but bear in mind that you CAN learn to love again....hehehe)
.....I was in love with my n/a Skyline, and never wanted to sell it.
But I wanted it to be faster....so I priced up the options of tuning the n/a engine, installing a turbo motor, and selling it and buying a turbo Skyline....

....and guess what....

.....I sold my baby and bought a turbo Skyline.....and now that's my baby......and I wouldn't part with it for the world....
(......except maybe a GTR......:D )

Take care dude....hope to help

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 10, 2002, 03:30:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING

Zapf: As far as I understand (and that's not far at all :D ).....removing the mesh should produce a negligible increase in flow overall, but the air at the centre of the afm flowing past the sensor will flow faster than average, making the ecu think there is slightly more air entering than there actually is, and so promoting overfuelling if anything....

......this is how I've been led to believe it works, please feel free to correct me...

Take care all.

Jon.

Peace, love and Skylines...


The mesh on the AFM is only there to prevent foriegn objects from damaging the wire.

If you take a close look at the mesh it has less even spacing in the grid than flyscreen! It's certainly not a well engineered part. As for flow - it does provide a reasonable restriction and is good to remove. It also increases turbulence the opposite of what people have supposed to be the case. My 2c.
Title: free horsepower
Post by: Paul Palmer on August 10, 2002, 03:36:05 PM
Jon,
  I see you are determined to keep these threads going, It might be worth trying to get royalties from all those who have contributed or read these threads. And guess what I could be your agent....Mr 40%!!!!!!!!.

PaulP.:cool:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on August 10, 2002, 09:05:36 PM
Rev210.

Tim @ RPM said that he has tested with the mesh off and it does make the car run a little richer but it also picks up 2rwkw all day every day.

Tim's Reasoning for it running richer was that the air in the middle moves faster than the side's.

I think we have already gone over this before in depth.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Zapf on August 11, 2002, 01:45:31 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rev210


The mesh on the AFM is only there to prevent foriegn objects from damaging the wire.

If you take a close look at the mesh it has less even spacing in the grid than flyscreen! It's certainly not a well engineered part. As for flow - it does provide a reasonable restriction and is good to remove. It also increases turbulence the opposite of what people have supposed to be the case. My 2c.


Merino have said otherwise.... and I belive him... it makes sense...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 11, 2002, 11:06:57 AM
Hi all...
...I think richer without the mesh...laminar flow and all that...
(from what I've learnt here)

...Joel thinks so...and Tim....
.....Rev seems not to.....
.....and Zapf???

and Rev: ....I greatly appreciate your input here, but if the mesh is just to prevent foreign objects damaging the wire...( and this point has been made before)...then why is there mesh on the exit side of the AFM???

....always open to debate.....
:D

Take care all.....keep it up

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 11, 2002, 11:11:07 AM
......and just another 2c....

......saw a TT supra AFM today for the first time.....no mesh at all....just a plastic moulding looking like a jet engine.....

......how that work then????
......no mesh from factory???

....just a thought....

( or are Supras prone to internal engine damage due to bird ingestion......:D )

Take care all....

Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Zapf on August 12, 2002, 01:00:24 AM
Toyota uses the flap type AFM I think... which is a plastic flap type system and the air flow is measured by how much the flap moves...

Zapf
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 12, 2002, 03:38:57 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Hi all...
...I think richer without the mesh...laminar flow and all that...
(from what I've learnt here)

...Joel thinks so...and Tim....
.....Rev seems not to.....
.....and Zapf???

and Rev: ....I greatly appreciate your input here, but if the mesh is just to prevent foreign objects damaging the wire...( and this point has been made before)...then why is there mesh on the exit side of the AFM???

....always open to debate.....
:D

Take care all.....keep it up

Jon.


Jon,

If its on both sides thats because you are most likely to damage the unit when removing it from the vehicle. Since the AFM has two sides it seems logical to protect both.

I don't dissagree with what might happen to mixtures as the result of increased flow (I've never looked at that) it sounds ok to me. :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Zapf on August 12, 2002, 10:44:30 PM
also the mesh is there to protect your turbo incase bits of your AFM decides to part way from each other....  make sense? :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on August 12, 2002, 11:14:50 PM
Zapf.

Yep.. Sounds Logical.

What would happen to the element type thing if it buggered up some how and stayed on the self clean mode?

Would it break? :dozey:

:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 13, 2002, 09:03:35 AM
Hi all:)

Zapf: .makes sense, yes.
This Supra afm did look like a weird bit of kit though.....no mesh, and definitely no flap system.....there was the usual wire in the centre, but surrounded by a plastic duct supported by radial posts....hence looking a bit like jet engine.....;)

????

Rev:
...so you suggesting the mesh is more to stop muppets like me from poking at the wire and stuff?
:dozey:

...good point.........:D

Take care all

Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 13, 2002, 02:20:34 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Hi all:)

Rev:
...so you suggesting the mesh is more to stop muppets like me from poking at the wire and stuff?
:dozey:



Say hi to Jim Henson for me, do you have any photos of Miss Piggy...holiday snaps?...candid photography (he asked knowingly) nudge nudge wink wink say NO MORE!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 14, 2002, 09:06:47 AM
Quote
Say hi to Jim Henson for me, do you have any photos of Miss Piggy...holiday snaps?...candid photography (he asked knowingly) nudge nudge wink wink say NO MORE!

.......ooohhhhhh.......I've walked into an alternate dimension....a world of the Muppet Show crossed with Python.....
Hmm....scary, but I like it....
:D :D

(FYI..."muppet" is a general insult 'round these parts....not as harsh as ****** or ****, but more like *****)

:D

.....anyways, back to the thread.....

I use Champion Race C57YC in my RB25DET now....much better than the recommended NGKs...
But we've just put a set in a 1995 200SX......and it's OK round town, but crap on boost....should it be gapped less than 0.8mm?
...or are the plugs just wrong for the car?

....anyone's 2c welcome...

Take care y'all,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Zapf on August 14, 2002, 05:33:01 PM
don't know... haven't tried Champion's in my car.... if they want to give me a free set I'll give it a go....  as long as they pay for damages if bit of the plug falls apart...

I have heard that the Champion's can have a shorter contact with the plug lead... hence will cause problem on some cars.. might want to check / compair to NGK before installing.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 15, 2002, 08:55:20 AM
plug lead??

:confused:

Jon
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ixon on August 15, 2002, 09:28:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by unfamilia
i like this thread... lots of questions, and lots of questions that ALWAYS appear in my mind :)

looking forward to the replies...

Rowan


I've heard you can screw your computer by doing this, any truth in this statement? And why would resetting your computer add performance?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 16, 2002, 10:11:57 AM
No, you can't...
....and yes, it can...'cos it's clever....

;)
Take care dude,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ixon on August 16, 2002, 03:37:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
No, you can't...
....and yes, it can...'cos it's clever....

;)
Take care dude,

Jon.


That dosnet tell me anything.

Im a computer programmer and I cant see how this would effect the car at all. Unless the computer remembers your driving habbits and  stuff, other than that I see no logic in doing this.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on August 16, 2002, 05:54:40 PM
Basically as far as I know the computer remembers where the motor knocks etc and then sets the map to suit ?!?!

Doesn't it the first time you start the car advance timing until it gets a knock then drops it back then sets it there.

Run hi-octane fuel and this should make a difference?!?!

personally I have never really noticed much of a difference appart from it seems a little smoother for a while but returns back to normal pretty quick.. say 1 day :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on August 16, 2002, 10:52:30 PM
What the computer does is retard the ignition on knock and then slowly advance it until it detects knock again, at which point it will retard some more and slowly advance slightly less until it detects knock.

Kinda like 1 tiny step forward, 2 tiny steps back, until it can not advance any further.

What this means to us is, if you are forced to run inferior fuel (NUL, or poor SUL) the ignition will be retarded by the ECU to a point where no knock is detected.

This is a cool safety measure in itself, however it will affect performance when returning to a better grade of fuel. So resetting the ECU allows it to re-learn the advance / knock curve for the particular grade of fuel you normally run.

Hope this helps.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 17, 2002, 10:12:46 AM
Couldn't have said it better myself.
...In fact I didn't...:dozey:

....guess that answers it for you then, Ixon?

Take care all,

Jon.


PS: Do not local air temperature,humidity and pressure affect the point at which knock occurs?
....Therefore resetting the ECU is also a good idea on a car that's just travelled halfway around the globe??
....Just a thought......please correct me yet again if I'm talking out of my ****
;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 19, 2002, 10:03:43 PM
Anyone heard bout toluene injection?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on August 19, 2002, 11:08:53 PM
Rev210,

It is covered somewhat theoretically in the Octane Booster (http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/upload/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2480) thread ont he GTR Register
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 20, 2002, 05:18:55 PM
Toluene injection is covered factualy in one of my issues of fast fours, going back 5 years or so. I was hoping someone else had it so I don't have to go looking for mine.

They basically plumbed in a 'cold start' injector to the plenum I think and held it open with a 12v source when required (used in place of water injection ).

Looks like I'll have to drag the article up :homer: doh!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 21, 2002, 08:35:01 AM
Toluene.......
....as Jason said, look at the thread on GTRforums.....but that seems to discuss it as an additive.....

.....so what benefits are there over injecting the stuff over, say, water, or NOS?

Tapping a cold start injector into the plenum is a pretty simple and cheap mod....but what to inject, when, and why??

Take care Skyline folks....

Jon.

Peace, love and ongoing debate........;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 21, 2002, 04:53:13 PM
Hey, Toluene was used during the 'turbo era' of formula 1. Back when they were running 5bars(73psi) of boost in qualiying and 4bars(59psi) in race. The fuels were limited to 102 RON so 84% toluene and 16%n-heptane (has no octane rating to bring it back to 102). Making 1500HP out of little tiny engines.... ooooright!



:jack:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on August 23, 2002, 07:58:59 AM
Quote
5bars(73psi) of boost in qualiying and 4bars(59psi) in race


:eek: ....WOW!!! ...Yes please Santa!!!
:D

Hmmm....just another 62psi to go, then......:dozey:

....one day, Skyline fans....

Live well,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 23, 2002, 01:08:50 PM
Gonna give toluene a go soon. See it is alot better than the octane boosters around. They ,due to EPA related stuff use alcohol based aromatics to increase octane along with small amounts of xylene.

toluene has a RM/2 octane of 114 (RON of 122 / MON 106)

Adding a tolunene to a 30% mix in your BP98(RON98) fuel will yeild an effective octane RM/2 of about 103+(RON 106). say 10L of toluene to 20L of BP98. That is one 'fat' octane fuel. The fuel has lower volitillity and greater energy properties per weight.

tolunene does not present any real problems in this quantity or less. It does not have the corrosive properties of the alcohol based octane boosting chemicals. The problems with toluene occur in cold start situations where the mixture is too high, due to its decreased volitillity. In formula 1 they heated the gas tank with air warmed by the exhaust to assist in combustion. In mixtures of 30% or less this aint a problem, not unless its snowing outside. Perfect warm weather additive.

the reason fuel companies don't put it in is due to increasing benzene emmissions that result from the aromatic component of fuels (they have guidlines for this in most countries).

Just got to find a place that flogs it and I'll give it a go.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 26, 2002, 09:17:35 PM
Tolunene --- got 4L to try out now $23 from a hardware store, unfortunately many a hardware store only has the stuff with 60% tolunene and 40% methyl -ketone (don't ever use this).

Will try out a 25% mixture with BP98 next fill up.

Stay tuned.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on August 26, 2002, 09:47:57 PM
I was looking in to that gear once before and apparently it perishes rubber.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 27, 2002, 01:56:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Joel
I was looking in to that gear once before and apparently it perishes rubber.


Not fuel hose rubber mate. The basic reactive nature of toluene is the same as the aromatic content already in all automotive fuels (ie: it is benzene based --- with CH3 (methane) molecules if I remember my organic chem days...oh so hazey now)

If what you were saying was true (and it isn't) ordinary fuel would perish all your rubber fuel hoses. Alcohol based octane molecules (as used to boost octane levels in fuels like BP98 etc) are far more reactive than the carbon/hydrogen based ones.

Tolunene T minus 4 hours and counting.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 27, 2002, 09:11:25 PM
Tolunene mix at 25% tolunene and 75% BP 98 Test. Calculated octane RON is 104!

This stuff rocks!

I often run Wynns race formula octane booster with BP 98, and I find it improves performance a small but, noticable amount in the upper rev range.

25% Tolunene is VERY noticable and from down low too. It knocks the spots off other octane boosters and this is why:

Ultimate 98 uses only 2% Aromatic compounds, and therefore is using the most advanced non-aromatic "octane boosting" additives to achieve 98 octane. A reason why octane boosters will work better with the Caltex 98(vortex its called here) is it has 5+% Aromatics.

As indicated the higher exhaust gass temperatures spool the turbo earlier, a symptom I tested over and over and over again. :D  I could easily run higher boost and a little more aggressive timing but, since I have a ceramic turbine and a stock computer I will leave that for someone else to have fun with for now!

Any questions?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on August 28, 2002, 10:55:57 AM
I was pretty sure that Vortex was 'not' 98 octane. If you look at any of the documentation for it, it basically says that the octane level is not important and the Vortex is good cause of all the other crap in it. They 'do not' state octane level at all, this says to me that they are less than 98??

Any ideas, and while we are at it what pump fuels do people recomend? Optimax, Mobil 8000, BP 98???

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on August 28, 2002, 12:49:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by MFX_R33
I was pretty sure that Vortex was 'not' 98 octane. If you look at any of the documentation for it, it basically says that the octane level is not important and the Vortex is good cause of all the other crap in it. They 'do not' state octane level at all, this says to me that they are less than 98??

Any ideas, and while we are at it what pump fuels do people recomend? Optimax, Mobil 8000, BP 98???

Jeff.


Your right, its only 96 RON. I was going off the BP comparison chart with a competitors 98 RON fuel, they show theirs as 2% aromatic as opposed to 5%. Is it optimax then? cause we don't get this over in WA. I just assumed it was Vortex, my mistake:(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on August 29, 2002, 11:24:48 AM
Most people over here seem to swear by Optimax, but I usually use Mobil 8000 as it is easier for me to get to. We do not have alot of BP servo's selling 98 (around me anyway) , but it would be good to actually see a comparison test between the different competitors to see which comes up trumps.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Mick Trainer on August 29, 2002, 06:20:13 PM
My experience (just opinion with no scientific back up) is that the Mobil 8000 is a better fuel than the Optimax.  I have had some problems with the Optimax in terms of build up in Fuel filters (I always cut fuel filters open to see what was inside) and trouble starting cold with high level jap bikes.  I have no such problem on the 8000.  

Like I said this is not very scientific, just opinion.

Mick.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on August 30, 2002, 10:51:26 AM
That's what I was after. Personal experience. I generally switch between both, but I must admit I don't pay close attn, to the running of the car between the two. I like the idea of pulling apart the fuel filter, I will be doing that from now on.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: WDRacing on August 30, 2002, 12:30:26 PM
Not sure why I decided to jump back into this enormous friggin thread but, I happen to have alot of experience with aftermarket injection systems.

My personal preference is to use denatured alcohol. I have personally used this for the last year or so. The denatured alcohol allowd me to make several 28psi runs with a mostly stock engine,ecu,fuel system and ignition. You simply can't argue that point.

Toulene has been tried for years. I don't no anyone who stuck with it. Alky type injection systems have been used by the Buick GN guys for a long time. This is where I started. Fortunatly for me the ground work was already done.

I have seen the best results come from Denatured alcohol, Methonal/Water mix, 90% or greater rubbing alcohol.

Most kits are fairly easy to program and tune. It took me 45 minutes to install my kit. Then a total of about 3 hours tuning. To include going to the store for more alky.

All in all it is the one mod I've done that has produced the most power. The next would be the T04. But without the alky the T04 would be garbage.

WD
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Mick Trainer on August 30, 2002, 01:41:20 PM
Wd,

Please excuse my ignorance on this but I really dont know anything about denatured alcohol.  Can you please go into this further?

Do you need to modify the fuel system?
What tuning changes are you talking about?
90% alcohol or normal fuel?
Or is it a totally different fuel system all together?

Thanks in advance,

Mick.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: WDRacing on September 01, 2002, 12:15:51 AM
Denatured alcohol produces 15% more power when ignited then 98 octane pump gas. It also burns 350 degree's colder the pump gas. Making it a very good way to increase boost and timing without detonation. Denatured alcohol is a stronger form of isopropyl alcohol. It also has an additive that makes it toxic to drink. Not that you would want to anyway.

When I say 90% alcohol I mean mean it's 90% by volume. You have to look at the front of each bottle or jug in most cases to find out what the percentage is. I would use 90%. The rest is watered down.

My friend added the same kit I have to his Buick. When he turned on the alcohol spray he gained an average of .6 in the 1/4. Without ever turning up the boost. With most alcohol kits you can add an additional 8 psi of boost safely. That equates to around 70 hp.

When I say tuning the injection kit I mean this. The kit that I have comes with a chemical tank with internal pump and steel braided hose. This is mounted under the hood. It has a wire harness that runs to a control box which is mounted inside of your car. The control box allows you to adjust the volume of alcohol sprayed into your piping via the steel line. It also lets you adjust what boost level the alcohol will come on at. There is a light on the control box so you can tell when the pump is running. There's also a low level light. You don't want to run out of alcohol while making a high boost run. Your car will explode...plain as that.

To tune your car, you simply start at the point where your car is running at a maximum amount of boost without alcohol. Set your pump to come on just prior to that point. Your car will probably bog out since your adding fuel without increasing the air content. The you simply turn up the boost slowly. Just repeat these steps while adjusting the volume control of the pump. Add boost and increase the volume.

I used an MSD internal knock sensor. This sensor has a led display for knock as well as an audible alarm. Its very good to have as a safety device.

If you have any other questions I'll be glad to help.

WD
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: RazorGTR on September 01, 2002, 07:10:26 AM
Where would you find one of these kits, and approx what is the cost (please specify currency :) ).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: WDRacing on September 02, 2002, 03:36:27 AM
Here's the link I used, all prices are in US dollars.


This is one of the best kits on the market today.
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/SteveCkit.html


This link has some really good info.
http://www.geocities.com/rad87gn/tech/alcohol.html

WD
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on September 02, 2002, 03:33:12 PM
I prefer Optimax in my R33 Skyline.... Mobil 8000 i found would make the car run **** (i'd almost say miss fire, but not badly) at higher revs... Optimax provided smooth power through the rev range.

I haven't tried BP98 as my car has since been stolen... Another is on the way though :)

--
Andrew
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bthang on September 04, 2002, 12:28:40 AM
Hi guys.. where is wire #53 located? just cut it and that's it?.. what limit does it remove?

thanks...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 04, 2002, 11:03:00 AM
I havn't got the diagram handy but check meggala's site, he will have it.

Cutting wire #53 removes the 180km/h speed cut. I did it with no adverse effects.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bthang on September 04, 2002, 05:09:56 PM
what is the site?
thanks!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 05, 2002, 10:53:05 AM
His site is http://www.meggala.com but I had a look and I couldn't find it. Anyone else got a copy of the wire diagram?

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bthang on September 05, 2002, 08:23:44 PM
thanks jeff.. do you know where to find the wires?.. behind the dash or?..

thanks..
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: WDRacing on September 06, 2002, 11:49:44 AM
Go to http://www.apexi.com follow the links to installation of the SAFC. They have a wiring diagram on there site.

WD
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: meggala on September 06, 2002, 11:54:38 AM
http://www.meggala.com/rb25detenglish.html
thats the link for the wiring diagram its on the parts and info page
cheers
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 07, 2002, 07:17:41 AM
Meggala:
       ....:king: ......

......superstar.....as usual.....

;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 10, 2002, 11:31:21 AM
Meggala, I knew you would have it somewhere ;)

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on September 10, 2002, 02:35:01 PM
Anyone else had a go with toluene yet?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 11, 2002, 10:44:57 AM
Hi Rev:
...is it as good as you say?
....are you planning a with/without dyno comparison?

....is it any less stressful on the motor than NOS?

Cheers dude,

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on September 11, 2002, 12:35:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Hi Rev:
...is it as good as you say?
....are you planning a with/without dyno comparison?

....is it any less stressful on the motor than NOS?

Cheers dude,

Jon.


It's as good as I say. You are basically running higher octane fuel so thats all there is to it.

Its different to NO2, the only stress NO2 puts on your motor is the extra horsepower, when set up correctly NO2 does not have any detrimental effects.

The benifits of NO2 over a turbo producing the same power is the following;  

* The intake charge is much cooler, reducing the chance for pinging because of higher than normal ambient temps.

* The power curve is moved 500 - 1000rpm lower in the rev range. reduces the chance for failure of components for  reasons of over reving.

* The power is delivered only when needed for short periods.

* The setup cost to produce the same power (within the motors tollerance) is far lower.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 12, 2002, 10:13:43 AM
Rev:
...well, I can't argue with that, can I?

....can anyone else??



.....what about that dyno comparison then, dude??

Take care, and thanks as ever,

Jon.

Peace, love and yet more Free Horsepower!!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 20, 2002, 11:15:41 AM
Free Horsepower.............

....late night ramblings, no doubt........but it's been said before that weight reduction is a bloody good way of effectively increasing power, by increasing the power to weight ratio of the car.....

eg: a 25% reduction in weight will give a 33% increase in power to weight...
....or a 50% reduction gives a 100% increase.....
(not that you could easily halve the weight of a Skyline.....just an example)

.........so, following my dubious logic......if you have a 240bhp Skyline.....and can junk 40% of it's weight.....you have the same power to weight ratio of a 400bhp Skyline.....*


....make sense??

*(extreme examples for illustration purposes only)


Take care all

Jon.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: just-startin on September 20, 2002, 02:36:52 PM
----- Toluene -----

Just a quick note about toluene, it's carcinogenic ( can give you cancer ), do not get it on your hands or skin.

----- Power and Weight -----

Here is a useful formula for ya:

 0-100 time = ( weight x 0.784 ) / power
where power is in KW's and weight is in kg's

If your mate's 1400kg 200KW Skyline does 0-100 in 5.5 secs
Then your 1000kg Skyline only needs 143KW to do the same thing

The upshot of this is that if I can go on a diet and lose 20kg's, I will drop up 0.1 secs in my sprint time
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on September 20, 2002, 04:19:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by just-startin
----- Toluene -----

Just a quick note about toluene, it's carcinogenic ( can give you cancer ), do not get it on your hands or skin.



NO it isn't.

Go check out the mineral safety data (MSD) for it, you will notice it does not have any carcinogenic properties. I'm sure I posted a link to the shedule contained  on BP's web site before?

http://www.msdsonline.com.au/BPAUST...e=&uselogo=TRUE

Interesting to note is that petrol IS carcinogenic under the shedule.

http://www.msdsonline.com.au/BPAUST...e=&uselogo=TRUE


BTW, just because a substance is based on a benzene molucule does not make it a carcinogen. If that was so many of the natural flavours and aromas found in food would kill you.
Title: rev210
Post by: slippyr4 on September 21, 2002, 04:38:40 AM
Quote
NO it isn't.


YES it is, who cares what your MSD sheets say about it!!!

Quote
BTW, just because a substance is based on a benzene molucule does not make it a carcinogen. If that was so many of the natural flavours and aromas found in food would kill you.


YES it is. Any delocalisation of electrons (eg benzene) is a carcinogen. This includes aromatics... (flavours, perfumes, many solvents etc).

However, a plain old benzene ring is not particularly carcinogenic. Furthermore, most of the aromatics commonly found are quite complex molecules, and have side chains which produce alternative effects, reducing the molecular accessibilty and potency of the delocalisation.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 21, 2002, 09:26:39 AM
...calm down.....;)
Title: Re: rev210
Post by: rev210 on September 22, 2002, 04:33:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by slippyr4


YES it is, who cares what your MSD sheets say about it!!!

YES it is. Any delocalisation of electrons (eg benzene) is a carcinogen. This includes aromatics... (flavours, perfumes, many solvents etc).

However, a plain old benzene ring is not particularly carcinogenic. Furthermore, most of the aromatics commonly found are quite complex molecules, and have side chains which produce alternative effects, reducing the molecular accessibilty and potency of the delocalisation.


May I suggest that pure benzene is one of the most carcinogenic substances around. You may not have know, that many years ago mechanics an such used this as a hand cleaner and general solvent, until that is they found these people getting all sorts of cancers even on their hands!

Toluene is not carcinogenic, I have facts and an organic chemistry qualification, you don't. So please don't confuse people about the issue , if you have some news breaking report (ie:fact you can refference) then please share it with us ,I will be the first to admit I was wrong.

Otherwise have a nice day and keep cruzin':D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 23, 2002, 07:54:17 AM
Quote
If your mate's 1400kg 200KW Skyline does 0-100 in 5.5 secs, Then your 1000kg Skyline only needs 143KW to do the same thing


....Someone over there must have toyed with this idea.....and had the balls to rip apart a perfectly good car....:D

Anyone played with serious weight reduction?
Can it have an adverse effect on handling?
How much weight can you lose without attacking the bodyshell??

....please no carbon fibre...(unless it's Free);)

Take care all,

Jon.

PEACE, LOVE AND FREE HORSEPOWER................
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 23, 2002, 11:33:28 AM
I believe that Mario is in the process of stripping his car at the moment, including non structural panels such at the firewall!!! How far do really want to go on your road car?

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 24, 2002, 08:36:44 AM
Quote
How far do really want to go on your road car?


.....that's always the big question, isn't it dude??

...The way I see it, a Skyline is hardly the most practical machine for commuting to work every day, or the weekly shopping trip....
(but you CAN get a 6foot triple wardrobe flatpacked into an R33 coupe...but that's another story...)
....plus filling the thing full of ICE was hardly the best thought out plan....just seemed like a good idea at the time....;)

...Plus, I've had the bloody thing for 18 months now.....done the best I can to it thanks to you guys....:) .......and I get BORED eventually.....
.....but there's something about the Skyrine.....it feels SO GOOD TO BE DRIVING ONE !!!!!!

....I'd only part with it for a GTR....and finances as usual do not allow....:D

.....So, how far dare I go with this weight reduction thing....'cos there comes a point where you risk ruining the potential resale value of your pride and joy.......so where do you stop??


....sorry folks...it's late again, but this post does kinda make sense if you read it a few times.....

Take care all,

JonB
Title: Is it isn't it, is it ?
Post by: just-startin on September 24, 2002, 10:53:29 AM
Quote

----- Toluene -----
Just a quick note about toluene, it's carcinogenic ( can give you cancer ), do not get it on your hands or skin.


Sorry about that, I must admit that I didn't have a definitive answer on this one but had been told a long time ago by my old chemistry teacher that this was the case.

Apologies
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: russcb007 on September 24, 2002, 11:31:22 AM
about the weight reduction...I just removed the climate control from my R32 gtst and just the compressor, piping, brackets, bolts and radiator weighed 22kg...all from right at the front of the car...nothing from under the dash and none of the heating either...

Am removing the hicas rack and lines soon...all hydraulic...wondering how much this will all weigh?  W

What else can I remove that has a decent weight reduction effect...cause in the end maybe it is just easier to turn on more boost...gotta love the turbo.

Russ
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on September 24, 2002, 11:38:34 AM
Give me my slower car with climate control anyday ;).

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: russcb007 on September 24, 2002, 12:15:43 PM
it was screwed anway, cost too much to fix and only drive the car for fun so...might as well enjoy the extra 0.05 in my 1/4 mile time...hahaha
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 29, 2002, 10:05:29 AM
Quote
it was screwed anway, cost too much to fix and only drive the car for fun

......:king:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 01, 2002, 08:55:41 AM
So, has anyone managed to remove a serious percentage of kerbweight??
How is Mario doing?
It seems strange that no-one seems to have tried what seems to be a cheap and sensible way to increase your power/weight ratio....

...I'm ready to give it a serious try.....just worried about the potential pitfalls of too much weight loss....handling and traction issues for example.....

;)

As ever, take care all,

Peace, Love and Free Horsepower.....

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on October 09, 2002, 05:16:26 PM
bump.

Sticky this thread!
Title: spark plugs
Post by: james-r33 on October 10, 2002, 08:54:38 PM
Hi there guys

found a good read the other day it is the latest hot 4's mag
and it had a tech tip i diddent know about and it was free horse power it was all about putting your spark plugs in the right way ?

what i mean is pointing the open part of the plug tip at the inlet of your engien what they did was get a skyline rb25de and put new plugs in it and dyno ran it and got a power of 92 hp ? i think then they lined the plugs up so they faced the the inlet and bingo more power not much but it was worth a bit more power if you read the mag in gos indeath so i though i might bring this point up as i have never heard of this before but when you sit down and read it , it makes a lot of sense
so for all of you out there there is still more power to be had go forth and do it ,:king:
Title: Cam Gear Timing..
Post by: Joel on October 10, 2002, 09:14:33 PM
Freehorsepower.

Here's what happened to mine.

I'm not sure exactly how much more power it makes but...

I did my cam belt not long ago and when removing the old one i noticed that the crank was one tooth out.

The crank had been turned clock wise 1 tooth in turn having the cam's retarded.

It did make the car a little gutless when off boost but when on boost with 12psi i made 152rwkw with stock airbox/airfilter, 3" from turbo back exhaust and 20deg timing.

And not to forget a Fuel pressure reg bleed kit.

With approx 25deg timing with no pinging when i had the FMIC fitted it made on 12psi 156rwkw.

When i slapped the cam belt on the right way it made it heaps more pokey down low and nicer to drive.

THEN I had it tuned on 15psi with 17deg timing and it made 164rwkw.

so for the cam's being where they should be, +3psi and - 13deg timing it made only another 8rwkw.

sure 10degree's or so could pick up 5rwkw but hrmm makes you think...

I have heard about this with the old VL Commodores.
Retarding to make more up top advance for more down low.


Be carefull but as the RB20DET is an Interference motor.

Valves touching the pistions isn't to good for it...

It also pings alot easier now.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: russcb007 on October 11, 2002, 05:18:39 AM
update on the weight reduction stuff

22kg of climate control

just removed hicas and assorted stuff havent weighed it yet but it is all really heavy.  ot my brother to make an alloy spacer instead of the rack.  The power steering pump is really heavy too I think all up might be 30kg maybe a touch more with all the pipes etc

so so far 50-60kg out....will enter bathurst now...wtch out HRT....haha

Next need an alloy bonnet or similar + alloy boot if you can get them...probably not maybe a carbon one.  Even the rear r32 gtst spoiler weighs heaps.

will keep you posted on this exercise which will undoubtedly end in frustration.

Russ
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 11, 2002, 11:42:04 AM
Russ:
...Keep up the good work, dude.....and keep us posted....

All:
....excuse me for a moment, while I ........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 11, 2002, 11:43:18 AM
.....just get post 1000.......



:D


Take care all,

JonB
Title: weight reduction
Post by: V8eta on October 11, 2002, 11:59:49 AM
Im going to give it a go for the night drags at meremere, so far im planning on removing the seats, everything in the boot, speakers, rear wing, not to sure if i will take anything else out, but im sure every little bit helps.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on October 11, 2002, 01:13:45 PM
You can always try to source a GTR bonnet as they are alluminium, for that matter so are the gaurds (athough GTR front gaurds with out the rear may look a bit odd). I have a fiberglass bonnet, and it weighs nothing.

On that point the most stupid bonnet swaps I have seen (on 2 separate RX7's no less) was the standard alluminium series 6 bonnets for carbon fibre ones, that were much heavier?????

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: russcb007 on October 15, 2002, 11:33:02 PM
All right update on the futile skyline diet for weightloss....

climate control...just aircon..not heater

22kg

hicas ...difference between old and new..still have powersteering pump etc for front.

8kg
(replacement of steering pump with r33 one should get another 5kg or so)


Active spoiler removal..I really wanted to keep this but there is no room for new FMIC with the active spoiler ....so out it goes...

6kg

hmmm ...not bloody much huh...guess if you want to loose much you have to be serious and replace seats...and all sorts of other creature comforts etc....

My only consolation is that so far most of the weight has been removed from the extreme ends of the car..

ANyway the quest continues...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SIK 4 IT on October 15, 2002, 11:36:14 PM
Question: Are you allowed to have a see through (clear) bonnet?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on October 15, 2002, 11:37:02 PM
what would u make it out of????plastic???haha

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: russcb007 on October 16, 2002, 01:24:50 AM
Then people could see the sorry state of my under bonnet area....ya know wires going everywhere etc

No plastic see through bonnet for me....

Russ
Title: In response to rev210
Post by: slippyr4 on October 16, 2002, 05:23:09 AM
rev210 wrote:-
Quote
Toluene is not carcinogenic, I have facts and an organic chemistry qualification, you don't. So please don't confuse people about the issue , if you have some news breaking report (ie:fact you can refference) then please share it with us ,I will be the first to admit I was wrong.


Firstly, I do not believe you have any qualification in organic chemistry (with the possible exception of high school science).

Just looking back over the last few pages provides fairly compelling evidence that you lack basic chemistry knowledge....



Anyway, I'm bored of pointing out what a fraud you are. Moving swiftly onwards...

Toluene is carcinogenic. Not particularly so, and not as carcinogenic as base benzene. But more so than 1,2,5-nitro toluene. More so than hydroxy-benzene (Phenol). More so than trichlorophenol (TCP). What makes toluene worse is that many decomposition products of toluene are in fact quite carcinogenic.

Additionally, toluene is quite hardful by inhalation, and can cause fitting, and in extreme cases, cerebral haemorrage and heart failure. again, these are unlikely, but don't snort it.

MSD sheets are not the definitive resource on what is and what isn't a nasty chemical. They are overviews of the generalised safety precautions a substance requires, and more of a political tool than anything else.

You would be an idiot to handle toluene without skin protection. Oh, i forgot, you are an idiot.
Title: Re: In response to rev210
Post by: rev210 on October 16, 2002, 04:11:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by slippyr4
rev210 wrote:-
 

Firstly, I do not believe you have any qualification in organic chemistry (with the possible exception of high school science).



Pedandtic aren't we? (read nit picker)

I can't argue that I made some basic spelling and grammar mistakes. Thanks for pointing them out;)

I should have said Methyl instead of methane, I should have wrote NOS instead of using the 2 for an S and Lastly I should have wrote aromatic based alcohol instead of alchohol based aromatic (like tolurol etc.)

Please forgive any future blunders like forgetting to mention if a molecule is a cis or trans or its cirality ( left or right handedness). I am not trying to give an organic chemistry lecture, just trying to convey ideas quickly if not allways super accurately due to being quick to type and slow to think ( It's a curse).

I think you are being a tad mean, at least I didn't point out that your de-localised electron statement was silly. I'm sure you didn't mean if de-localised electrons are found in any compound that makes them a carcinogen ipso-facto. I know you didn't mean that, at least I gave you the benifit of the doubt.

Back to toluene:

If it is carcinogenic, where is the evidence? The MSD is put together from the latest research in the interest of protecting the companies who produce the chemical as much as the users (political yes ----- Lacking in safety alerts NO , this is a measure to protect AGAINST litigation). This is why regular fuel is listed as a carcinogen, even though we are using it every day we don't don protection suits and perform the filling in a giant fume hood.

The MSD is not the only documented profile on Toluene, but I have yet to see another that contradicts what I have said about carcingenic properties.

Please provide us with evidence, post a link / refference a publication. Like I said before I am completely open to new information thats why I like this thread so much.

I'm not out to 'high horse' people just inform them and add to the debate. I have tried to provide factual information that people can go and check for themselves, they might discover I misquoted or mis-spelled something. In the case of the peltier I left myself open to experiment and told people I hadn't any quantified data yet.

Chill out man. You can point out where I go wrong ,you do me and everyone on the forum a favour when you do. Just lose the attitude and bring out some facts.

BTW idiot comes from the greek word 'idiom' meaning one who abstains from politics (thought to be a vulgar practice in ancient times). I guess I am an idiot when it comes to this forum.
Title: Re: In response to rev210
Post by: Jay95R33 on October 16, 2002, 07:34:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by slippyr4
rev210 wrote:-
 

Firstly, I do not believe you have any qualification in organic chemistry (with the possible exception of high school science).

Just looking back over the last few pages provides fairly compelling evidence that you lack basic chemistry knowledge....

  • First you talk about "alcohol based aromatics". WTF???? An aromatic is, by definition, a compound based round a cyclic ring.
  • Then, "..with CH3 (methane) molecules if I remember my organic chem days...oh so hazey now". You mean a methyl group. Surely you wouldn't forget the difference between a group and a molecule would you?
  • Then a classic nugget about the engine stress of putting NO2 in your engine.... Surely anyone with even high school chemistry would know the difference between N20 and N02 ??? And before you get arsy and point out that N20 and N02 are inorganic, i know that.
  • And all time idiot idea of yours is fitting peltiers to your intercooler. Shall we look at the first law of thermodynamics? or was that not in chemistry when you did it? The amount of energy you would need to put into a peltier would be an awful lot less than the power you would release from the cooler intake charge.


Anyway, I'm bored of pointing out what a fraud you are. Moving swiftly onwards...

Toluene is carcinogenic. Not particularly so, and not as carcinogenic as base benzene. But more so than 1,2,5-nitro toluene. More so than hydroxy-benzene (Phenol). More so than trichlorophenol (TCP). What makes toluene worse is that many decomposition products of toluene are in fact quite carcinogenic.

Additionally, toluene is quite hardful by inhalation, and can cause fitting, and in extreme cases, cerebral haemorrage and heart failure. again, these are unlikely, but don't snort it.

MSD sheets are not the definitive resource on what is and what isn't a nasty chemical. They are overviews of the generalised safety precautions a substance requires, and more of a political tool than anything else.

You would be an idiot to handle toluene without skin protection. Oh, i forgot, you are an idiot. [/B]



Gezzz man - take a chill pill.  This IS a friendly forum after all !!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 17, 2002, 09:30:59 AM
Quote
Oh, i forgot, you are an idiot.

....once again, CALM DOWN PLEASE.....

....this is the Free Horsepower Thread....
.....not the Gay Bitchy Insult Thread.....

.....feel free to either chill or p1ss off......

Take care All.....

JonB

PEACE LOVE AND FREE HORSEPOWER!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: dabigbolf on November 20, 2002, 04:32:22 PM
hi,

i just thought i'd post so i'd be part of the longest thread in history.



:eek:
Title: saucer of milk table two!
Post by: That Harry Connick Jr Guy on November 20, 2002, 05:26:00 PM
I don't have a degree in chemistry and i've neva seen nerds have a bitch fight before.

Perhaps we could line them up an they could pepet acid at each other across the lab...

No safety goggles allowed...

I bet u guys are a real hit wif da ladies...

Why don't you use your powers for good and engineer us some 104 octane fuel ......

Snotchies whiney bitches
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on November 20, 2002, 05:32:38 PM
It's BACK!

For those free-horsepower guys out there:

My largely free-horsepower inspired stockie managed a 13.8 on the 1/4mile the other day with the following handicaps:

*100+kgs in the boot.

*3/4 tank of fuel.

*Only 8 psi of boost, turned it down cause I blew of a vacume hose the run before at 10psi cause I forgot to put a hose clamp back on the day before. Doh! :homer:

*El'cheap'o 205 tyres
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 21, 2002, 10:03:36 AM
Woohoo!!!

Well done Rev dude....:king:

....how about listing ALL your mods from stock, along with costs...
....so we can all see how it's done....

Take care,

JonB

....and as for Toluene, well, let's just all agree not to drink it, eh?;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on November 21, 2002, 03:52:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Woohoo!!!

Well done Rev dude....:king:

....how about listing ALL your mods from stock, along with costs...
....so we can all see how it's done....

Take care,

JonB

....and as for Toluene, well, let's just all agree not to drink it, eh?;)


MODS:

*FGK 3inch Cat back exhaust (its very quiet) (came with the car)
*3inch thermo taped dump pipe off the turbo to the cat. ($400 - dump pipe / $99 tape )
*K&N Panel filter ($90)
* Removed dust panel inside front guard behind stock cooler (free)
* Peltier on stock cooler, for quick cool down before and after boost. ($70)
* Foam Steam pipe insulation on part of intake pipe. ( free  leftovers)
* Thermo wrapped turbo to intercooler pipe. (left over tape)
* 8 psi boost -------- on the 13.8 run (turbosmart bleeder $99)
* KCA349 Whiteline diff cradle kit ($114) for better 'squat' on take off, it's a must have for a skyline.

All other parts of the car stock.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on November 21, 2002, 06:28:16 PM
is the whiteline KCA349 diff craddle the same as the pineapples that JMS use/sell?

thanks
andrew
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on November 22, 2002, 01:38:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GiJOR33
is the whiteline KCA349 diff craddle the same as the pineapples that JMS use/sell?

thanks
andrew


Yes I believe so. At least the guys at JMS flog them as 'dooorift' pineapples. There are different sized pineapples for different applications/configs (drift or traction ) in the KCA349 kit.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on November 29, 2002, 03:51:27 PM
I have the new ogura flywheel going in on saturday along with a ceramic 9 button clutch (using stock pressure plate).

pic
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on November 29, 2002, 03:52:47 PM
ceramic clutch.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bskin on November 30, 2002, 07:19:57 PM
diff cradle bush, big ones give better traction, smaller one drift?
Title: Happy B'day...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 04, 2002, 02:20:06 PM
Warning!!!!
....This thread is now 15 months old.....and therefore officially uncool...:D

....although 31000 viewers can't be wrong....hehehe....

....and Rev210 is doing a cracking job of keeping the faith.......go go Rev dude.....:king:

Take care all.....

Peace, love and Horsepower.....

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 06, 2003, 01:28:27 PM
....guess I spoke too soon.........:rolleyes:

Take care....;)

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: footrot on January 06, 2003, 03:26:58 PM
omfg... :eek::eek::eek: unable to read all of this thread - just takes too long already spent 5hrs and the wife is getting worried thinking Im doin somethin devious.;)

But just had a thought - it may have been mentioned before - how bouts rerouting the air conditioning though to the plenum and intercooler piping. Covering the pipes in like a thermo jacket that the ac fills up and vents maybe to the front of the intercooler. Of course you'de keep part of the air conditioning for cooling down yourself - problem though is that it would take a few minutes to cool the piping down so you wouldnt be able to use it in one of those one off moments when confronted at lights with a GSR. Also you apparently waste about 10 percent of your fuel when the airconditioning is used - so expensive in that respect.

Just using the resources we already have on the car - almost could be justified as a free mode with the thermo jacket thing extra... ... just a thought...

go this free horse power thread im off to read the rest till I puke :spew:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on January 06, 2003, 03:32:43 PM
Yep, that's right foot', air-con into intercooler has been covered (like a million times).

Run a search for peoples thoughts.  I think you'll find it isn't +'vely beneficial.

Remember, there are no stupid questions, just stupid kids in Primera's.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: footrot on January 06, 2003, 03:40:20 PM
whatever...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 15, 2003, 12:20:47 PM
...Steady there Dudes.....

....( Am I missing some tension here, Kerry?)

....As I've said before....


PEACE

LOVE


FREE HORSEPOWER......

Take care, friends...

JonB

...PM me...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on January 15, 2003, 02:00:42 PM
Yep, peace, love and free horsepower.

Never done a 1/4, but I'd hope I'd get a mid to low 13.

Mods:

Empty fuel tank
Replaced filler cap with oily rag
Wife beater shirt (sleeveless = less weight)
and a smile.....

No seriously, I dyno'd at 202bhp
Pod
Cold air box
3.5" no-cat exhaust (stainless of course)
Boost at 14.5 psi
'spensive gas, you know, the good stuff from BP
Monroes (that's how I'm spelling it!) and Kings - good for launch.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on January 16, 2003, 01:34:07 PM
update:
 

13.4 1/4 at motorplex last night with the new flywheel in.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on January 16, 2003, 02:07:07 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rev210
update:
 

13.4 1/4 at motorplex last night with the new flywheel in.


Nice, that's 4 hundrths off your last post.  You still only on 8psi?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on January 16, 2003, 03:32:43 PM
That time was with 10psi.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on January 16, 2003, 03:35:40 PM
Why for you not boost to 14?  Factory hair dryer can handle (with good oil and fuel).

Boost, it's free horsepower!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on January 16, 2003, 03:42:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4Nick8
Why for you not boost to 14?  Factory hair dryer can handle (with good oil and fuel).

Boost, it's free horsepower!


No thanks.

I run this boost and get 13.4, most guys with stock turbos and aftermarket this that and the other can't run that time and they all boost to 14psi or near it.

I'd rather not have to buy a new turbo and by treating it this way it will be in better condition.

Ceramic wheels don't like 14psi, do it often enough and they break.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on January 16, 2003, 03:50:00 PM
Yea, I was worried at first, I just try not to spend too long at TWO or under heavy load (hill climbs etc).

If you have the ability to adjust the boost (VBC etc) then you may as well run at 13.5 at least.  I kid you not, it makes a huge difference.

My VBC was a bit fecked when I first put it in, so it wasn't controlling boost at all, a few anxious moments at 18psi and back to the workshop.  I must say though, really motivates me to go buy a setup that could handle 18, because the feel of internal organs getting crushed into your spine is truely awesome....

I wonder what psi a stock 20DET could handle (with decent FMIC) before pistons start reatling down the exhaust pipe as a conrod explores the engine bay.  Any ideas?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on January 16, 2003, 09:20:20 PM
I've been running 16psi for around 6 months.

BUT I only use the car for quick squirts i.e first to third, and maybe a little bit of fourth.

Through the hills I drop her back to 14.5psi usually as i'm always hard on the turbo.

It really depends on the turbo I guess, a bit like overclocking a CPU some do it better some dont like it.

I found out she's quicker than a Red Maloo 255LS1 manual Ute with personalised number plates this morning. :)

He started it. He was 40+ so not a youngin which surprised me the way he drove.

First little run was from around 50kays after he squirted first which I didn't, my second head heaps more than his and pulled me from the back of his door past him. A little bit of third then we got stopped at the lights.

Well second time he got the launch 1/2 a car length due to wheel spin in first at the end of second I was exactly level then third (which chirped) pulled me past then clicked fourth and backed off.

It was a constant good pull at all revs and all speeds, I was waiting for it to start pulling at the higher rev's but I still seemed to pull just as quickly away. ?!?!

I've changed the tuning a little since last dyno by removing the fuel pressure reg bleed kit running a little more timing and setting boost to manual mode (16.2psi) with 21degree's timing. (No detonation)

Might not be making as much peak power but it feels like its making more power right up until just before the 7000rpm.

I guess how fast you get there is making more of a difference than how fast you are going WHEN you get there. (rev's)

Oh well I'm happy. :) Still a little surprised.
I really thought they were quicker.

Also In Japan I have heard that the RB20DET Turbos do get run at 16psi for short squirts.
Title: ECU Diag Plug
Post by: robertr on January 16, 2003, 11:37:52 PM
Ecu Reset [ Post #1 ]

Hi guys, J wrote this some pages back and I was wondering if anyone got the link to work? I have included the write up below.

If someone can send me the diagram or tell me what colour the wires are that need to be shorted, that would be a treat.

I found the grey plug but mine has about 4 or 5 wires going to it and don't know which ones I'm suppose to short.

Please mail pic or advice to rremedi@vodafone.net.au

Thanks
RR

This is the original post...

Theres an easier way to get the ECU into Diag mode. Near the fuse pannel box on the drivers side (not the boot) there is a grey plug. On the plug there are two wires all by themselves.

If you short these two wires out for two seconds while the ignition is in the ON position the check engine light will flash the codes.

There is a pic of the plug in this thread;

http://gtrforums.krypt.com/showthre...=&threadid=2859

I did it on the weekend and it works a treat.

To get it out of diag mode just turn the ignition to the OFF position.

J
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on February 27, 2003, 06:38:43 PM
Apexi S-AFC II is now in and so is HKS adjustable Exhaust Cam gear.

Aiming for 12's now.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 28, 2003, 09:00:02 AM
my 2c:

...I think Rev has an RB25DET....turbo not happy over 10psi...
...and me old mate 4nick has the stronger turbo on the older RB20DET.....happy at up to 14psi.....

....so mebbee u2 are actually agreeing, not differing???;)

Take care Skyliners, keep up the good work...

JonB
tinduckracing

PS: Robertr: That pic of the little grey diag port is somewhere on this thread......:D .....give us a shout if you can't find it in a day or two...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GT-R34 on February 28, 2003, 07:40:39 PM
for any one that has a gt-r32 i'm intrested in getting a skyline and i'm split  between the gts-t and gtr (both 32s)

if you guys can help me out it and give me info on both models it would be great thanks bunch!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on February 28, 2003, 09:42:45 PM
What's making you choose one over the other?

Get the GTR if you have the $$$... if you only want the GTS-T cos it's rear wheel drive, you can put a switch into one of the fuses of the GTR which enables/disables the front wheels from engaging!

I'd get the GTR... bigger engine, faster car, looks WAY WAY better

Andrew
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on February 28, 2003, 10:06:21 PM
What's making you choose one over the other?

Get the GTR if you have the $$$... if you only want the GTS-T cos it's rear wheel drive, you can put a switch into one of the fuses of the GTR which enables/disables the front wheels from engaging!

I'd get the GTR... bigger engine, faster car, looks WAY WAY better

Andrew
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on March 01, 2003, 01:02:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GT-R34
for any one that has a gt-r32 i'm intrested in getting a skyline and i'm split  between the gts-t and gtr (both 32s)

if you guys can help me out it and give me info on both models it would be great thanks bunch!


R32 GTR -- do a very quick lap around your favorite circuit then rattle off a 12 second 1/4 mile. When it rains you can still drive in a spirited manner.

R32 GTST -- do a fairly ordinary lap around your favorite circuit (get beaten by stock honda integras) then go to the 1/4 and probably get beaten by stock R spec honda integras. When it rains and you try to drive in a spirited manner you write the car off and with the insurance payout re-consider why you didn't buy a GTR when you had the chance.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GT-R34 on March 02, 2003, 07:12:52 AM
Quote
R32 GTR -- do a very quick lap around your favorite circuit then rattle off a 12 second 1/4 mile. When it rains you can still drive in a spirited manner.



good enuff for me...........gtr
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on March 02, 2003, 02:11:30 PM
HAHA.... rev210, summed up sweetly!!!

but if you are into drift then the GTSt will be fun... but then again you can just pull out the 4wd fuse and you have RWD with a RB26DETT powering you!

I say GTR for sure
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Sydneykid on March 03, 2003, 10:12:57 PM
Let me see GTR or GTST???????

Depends on the budget!

For $25K we have an R32 GTST that does high 11's for 1/4, mid 49's at Oran Park South, low 1.49's at Eastern Creek.

For $42K we have an R32 GTR that does high 11's for 1/4, high 49's at Oran Park South, high 1.48's at Eastern Creek.

Did I here you ask about running costs?

The GTR costs just about twice as much in tyres, brake parts and clutches.  Don't talk to me about body panels...........

If you have the budget go for the GTR it is ultimately the better car, but is it twice as good for the money?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 04, 2003, 08:57:42 AM
So, taking both Sydneykid and Rev's points.....

...GT-S is best value for money...
...GT-R is a better car...if money is no object....

...given the choice, I'd have the GT-R....but no-one's given me the choice yet...:D

...so I make do with the ol' GT-S....ah, well, it's still a Skyline folks...

Take care fellow Skyliners...

Peace, Love and Free Horsepower...

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on March 04, 2003, 11:16:34 AM
I had the same dilemma with my car. I only planned on keeping the GTSt for 12 months and then I was going to get rid of it and get a GTR. Then I thought 33GTSt = $18K 33GTR =$45K. The GTR is very good, but is it TWICE AS GOOD as the GTSt. In my opinion no..... the qudos of having the GTR badge would be good, but....... and I would not be one of the losers with GTR badges on a GTS!

Jeff.
Title: Maybe A Stupid Question...
Post by: Xt1ncT on March 17, 2003, 07:01:12 PM
Does cutting wire 53 ona non turbo 1997 GTS25S have the same effect? i.e. removing the limiter, and are there any detremental effects I need to know about? :jack:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: driftX on March 17, 2003, 07:42:52 PM
the central lock at "20km/hr" will not be activate?...
(after #53 cut off)
Title: Forgive my ignorance
Post by: Xt1ncT on March 17, 2003, 07:58:16 PM
I'm very new to this, so please could you explain what central lock is...and what it would mean to lose it..

Thanks Again....:p

:jack: :p :D  WOW - did I really ask this..?? Must remember to kickstart my brain in the mornings..!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 18, 2003, 08:18:32 AM
Quote
the central lock at "20km/hr" will not be activate?...


????????????????

....mine still does, dude.....;)

Xt1ncT: auto lock is where the doors automatically lock as you reack 20kmh....it's an anti-hijack feature.....but it also scares the cr4p outta hitch-hikers when they get locked in.....:D

.....this feature shouldn't be affected by cutting wire #53....

Take care folks...

Peace, Love and Free Horsepower...

JonB
Title: A Few More Questions....
Post by: Xt1ncT on March 18, 2003, 12:16:50 PM
When I finally pick my car up - hopefully by the weekend.....is it a good idea to get it serviced right away - put some decent oil and filter on it, a new air filter (recommendations please) and plugs (again recommendations please...)

The car is a 97 Skyline GTS Coupe - Non Turbo :(

Cheers Guys.... :p
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 20, 2003, 08:55:05 AM
...yes   :)
Title: That Was Brief....
Post by: Xt1ncT on March 20, 2003, 09:28:15 AM
What air filter would you recommend and also what oil/oil filter/plugs....

Cheers:dfinger:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 20, 2003, 11:59:18 AM
:dfinger: back at ya.....:D

Well, you asked......:rolleyes:

Oil.....semi synthetic 10w40, fully synthetic 5w40 or 10w50.....all are good for the RBxx block.....pick a good spec....not just a good name....we recognise API and ACEA specs over here....is it the same down under?

Filter......just get a good make....most RBs share the same oil filter

Air filter.....Build a CAP....read this thread dude....:D

Plugs.....many diff. opinions.....but I've changed from the recommended platinums to race coppers and had no probs since.....but that's a turbo....so whatever....

Oh, and change the oil often...:)

Take care,
Peace, Love and Free Horsepower...

JonB
Title: air intake
Post by: Bruce on April 15, 2003, 10:29:05 AM
TINDUCK- I,ve got an R33 gtst like yours- to improve airflow I  fitted a K&N  panel filter AND drilled four holes between the ribs at the front of the airbox- works real well, so well in fact that I,ve now made the holes rectangular & as big as possible. Now when you plant your foot you can hear the air being sucked in-sounds really cool & heaps more grunt.JUST the K&N filter by itself made a noticeable difference-but the holes give you heaps better airflow.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on April 15, 2003, 10:39:40 AM
Now far from free.....

Have bought Link ECU.

GTR Injectors.

Hope the pump will survive....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 15, 2003, 10:39:41 AM
Bruce:
   Hi dude....as long as you are directing cold fresh air into your cutouts, you won't be going far wrong....
   ...just cutting holes and hearing the resultant meaty roar has made many people think they are going quicker, but sucking in expanded hot air from the under hood area is a bad thing for performance....
   ....a K+N panel in the existing box is one of the best ways to go, but you must ensure a good supply of cold air...

Take care, Keep up the good work,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 15, 2003, 10:41:20 AM
4Nick:
...total post coincidence, my old friend......hehehe

....got any dyno results on the beast??

....how goes the Cortina??

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on April 15, 2003, 10:45:44 AM
Cortina what?  Nah, slack in that space.

About a year ago I dyno'd at 202bhp.  Should make close to that in kw now (I hope).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 15, 2003, 10:53:09 AM
4Nick:
   very cool horsepower....

  ( no posts for a month then both within a minute of each other....far too weird....)

Take care all,
Peace, love and Free Horsepower...

JonB

P.S: Just noticed the thread got sticky:) ....thanks to whoever did that...

P.P.S: GTSt brake mods are afoot.....not free but cheap I promise....good guys in the UK are working on it.....more as I get to know it.....:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on April 20, 2003, 01:25:22 PM
THIS JUST IN!

4NICK8 has some relevant free horsepower information to add!

Right.  Well, it's not quite free (nothing ever is).  It's pretty cheap though.

Probably the best and cheapest source of horsepower at low expenditure - 21st Century Performance - Julia Edgar

Hundreds of realistic options for all performance cars (though many are Skyline specific - YAY!).  Seriously good reading.

Cheap horsepower tip of the day (or for our french readers "bout de puissances en chevaux du jour")
I highly recommend buying a 2nd hand R33 25T pump and fitting it to you R32, then adding a cheap fuel pressure regulator and adjusting the pressure in the fuel rail.  In fact, you will get good returns even if you don't upgrade the fuel pump.  R33 owners, your pumps rock (not pump rocks, but your pump rocks.... you know what I mean).  Get extra fuel to those injectors today.  Spend very little cash, get extra horses...... That's what it's all about people.

Keep it sideways (the car not the monitor guys!)

Have I ever told you how great the world is after thre very short very dark coffee's....
Title: A bit of clarification needed....
Post by: Xt1ncT on April 22, 2003, 12:01:10 AM
Hi guys.....

On a 33 N/A does cutting the wire 53 have any negative consequenses?? I don't have HICAS, so thats not an issue (or at least I don't think I do).

Also, is it the same wire talked about earlier in this thread (53...) and is it a better idea to get this done professionally, and maybe put in a switch of some sort?


Cheers guys.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on April 22, 2003, 04:59:36 AM
update 13.3 @ 106mph

Go Free..er..cheap horsepower!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on April 22, 2003, 09:24:55 AM
Update on the wire thingi.

Some of the 32 boys have had probs running chips or aftermarket ECU's because the 'speed-wire' does more then let the factory computer know when to cut out.  We are testing alternatives.

In the meantime, drive less than 180 :o
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: waz on April 22, 2003, 10:22:36 AM
Aside from being newer, does the R33 gtst fuel pump flow any more than the R32 gtst pump???...I don't want much and R33 pump would be cheap as.

Massive thread ppl!
Exellent  :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on April 22, 2003, 10:39:55 AM
i have had the #53 wire cut for about 2years with no problems at all, even if there were problems all u need to do is join it back up again, reset the ecu and it will be back to normal.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on April 22, 2003, 10:44:35 AM
Yea, someone game a blerb about the flow rates of the two pumps, as you can tell it was pretty complicated, so I forgot it.  Suffice to say, my new 33 pump is louder, therefore faster! :D

Erm, the wire cut is only a probelm at 180 with some chips and ECU's.  Like I say, testing.....  Results posted in next few days.

How the hell did you get the GTS to do 180?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 22, 2003, 10:51:44 AM
Quote
update 13.3 @ 106mph


.....Hey Rev: .....sorry to butt in, but that's sorta Ferrari F355 or Lamborghini Diablo type times......:king:

....who says Skyline performance is only for people who own their own oil well.........:D :D

Go Go Cheap Horsepower!!!!!!


Take care all,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 22, 2003, 11:03:25 AM
Xt1ncT:
    ....Just CUT THE WIRE!!!!!!!

   ....what's the worst that could happen?? ;)

   ....if in doubt, reconnect it..... or be smart and fit a switch.....but trust us.... there are NO SIDE EFFECTS!!!!

......all you have to lose is your limiter....:D

Take care,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on April 22, 2003, 11:04:07 AM
Yep, that's quick, dam quick.  That's like modded GTR time.

Nice.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on April 22, 2003, 11:24:43 AM
man u havent seen my GTS!!hahaha

nah truly ive had it up to 200km/h and cud go faster. maybe 210 i think.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on April 22, 2003, 03:43:36 PM
TINDUCK RACING,

I'll give it some more time and hopefully I'll get it to a 12.9 or something. Probably get a 12.6 with slicks but, too many people would winge about it.

I'm considering putting the boost up to 12psi instead of 10psi next time, I'll get the tune done at both since the S-afc has two memory settings.
Title: My GTS Does 180 easy
Post by: Xt1ncT on April 22, 2003, 04:19:45 PM
Feels like its got loads left as well, I mean thats only about 110 mph so surely it should go to at least 130ish mph???

Dunno wot that is in KPH.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on April 22, 2003, 08:11:28 PM
Xt1ncT,

wow an NA skyline, I was going to buy one but, the power scared me off :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on April 23, 2003, 11:04:10 AM
I am looking at going back to the track in about 2 weeks to tyr and pick up a 12 second time slip. If I can work on my launch I think it will help. I got a 13.1 @ 108mph with a 2.1 60ft, on my 18's on 20psi. My mate was there in his 180 did a 1.9 60ft on  his 16's with 15 psi and went on to a 14.5 @ 91mph. If I got his launch I would have my 12 :D.

.......practice.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on April 23, 2003, 04:38:52 PM
Jeff,

I'm going back to the track next wed nite.

During the day I am actually going for a dyno tune! Wow first time for everything as they say.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JKGTS4 on April 23, 2003, 06:05:09 PM
ok, that wire #53, 180k cutout, dun work, it just ****s up ur knock sensor. now i have to rejoin it sumhow as it is rather small and tight. have to try and stretch it:mad: ;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on April 23, 2003, 06:06:13 PM
u mustve cut the wrong wire cause the #53 wire got nothing to do with the knock sensor

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JKGTS4 on April 23, 2003, 06:17:20 PM
ok, wire #53, green with yellow trace with silver specs all over it. cut it and it threw the fault
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on April 23, 2003, 07:21:14 PM
im not sure what colour it is but make sure it is really the #53 wire cause ive heard of heaps of people doing it and ive had the wire cut for about 2 years with no problems.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JKGTS4 on April 23, 2003, 07:40:52 PM
hmmm. i heard one guy who had the same thing but that was like one out of 10 or so, but yea, anyone know what colour the wire is? help would be good
:splat:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on April 24, 2003, 09:11:13 AM
Somewhere in this thread!
Somewhere burried deep within!
The vast length and girth of knowledge that is:

The 'Free hosepower' thread

Is a wiring diagram for the R32.  Cut mine, had no problems...

...but then I'm not like most poeple. :rolleyes:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 24, 2003, 09:35:30 AM
JKGTS4:
   Hi dude....do yourself a favour and listen to everyone. Forget about colours, spots and traces.....they're enough to confuse everyone. Look at a pinout of your ECU and look at the numbers.
    Wire 53 cuts the signal to the ECU from the speed sensor. Nothing more, nothing less. All that will happen if you cut it, is the loss of your speed limiter.

    On the other hand, cutting wire 23 will lose the signal from the front knock sensor, and wire 24 will lose the rear.....

    Just find yourself the diagrams on this thread, and cut the right wire next time...
   ;)

Take care all,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on April 24, 2003, 11:01:44 AM
Is it the same wire number for an R32 as for an R33. I know on the 33, cutting wire 53 works without a hitch.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on April 24, 2003, 11:05:11 AM
Def works.  Did mine and was fine (even now with Link :p  ).  Sounds like you cut the wrong wire dude.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: MFX_R33 on April 24, 2003, 11:07:46 AM
Rev, I am waiting to see how you go. Should be interesting. I am looking to go back hopefully on the 14th of May, as long as I have not taken the car off the road for it's next strip and respray by then.

Jeff.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on April 24, 2003, 11:12:23 AM
Not that they are better or anything, but does anyone else think we could learn from

http://www.nzmmc.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6881

By that I mean, we do a similar "Common asked Performance Questions" or "Sources of Cheap/Free Horsepower" overview thread.

Much of the information could referenced from 'freehorsepower page xx' etc.

Thoughts?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JKGTS4 on April 25, 2003, 02:40:48 PM
yea, i musta ****ed it up, i fixed my knock sensor sumhow, didnt reconnect the wire, just ****ed with it a bit and it went away but i tried the speed limiter last night and it still max's out at about 190, so ill have to find that diagram....the one on the forum wont run on my comp, anyone know anywhrere else there is one?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 25, 2003, 11:09:00 PM
It's here, 'bout halfway down the page.....R33 English.jpg...

Hope this helps:)

JonB

http://forums.skylinesdownunder.co.nz/showthread.php?threadid=7984

Edit: try JasonO's FAR better effort on page 2 of the same thread:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GraemeWi on April 26, 2003, 12:12:54 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4Nick8
Not that they are better or anything, but does anyone else think we could learn from

http://www.nzmmc.co.nz/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6881

By that I mean, we do a similar "Common asked Performance Questions" or "Sources of Cheap/Free Horsepower" overview thread.

Much of the information could referenced from 'freehorsepower page xx' etc.

Thoughts?


I like it. If people can harvest links (copy and paste the URL including the page number) and post it up along with what it is...I'll add 'em to the Useful Info thread like the Mitsi guys have.

G
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on April 28, 2003, 08:46:32 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GraemeWi
I like it. If people can harvest links (copy and paste the URL including the page number) and post it up along with what it is...I'll add 'em to the Useful Info thread like the Mitsi guys have.

G


Agree.  Graeme, if Jon (TinDuck Racing) is keen (it's mostly his thread) then we should go for it.  I think it would potentially save heaps of space on what ever server this forum resides.  It'd also be a very quick way for those common questions to be answered.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 28, 2003, 09:29:49 AM
Fine by me, 4Nick......

   ......but didn't Graeme cover most things in his brilliant but unoriginally titled Free Horsepower Book?? :D ;)

...Seriously though guys....it's a top idea that could save loads of people time trawling the site for questions that have been answered many times before......and there are many many more threads out there with answers.....all could be linked to a FAQ...

....Volunteers?:notworthy

JonB:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fix69er on May 02, 2003, 08:03:58 AM
any one done NOS in their r32 skyline?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on May 02, 2003, 08:12:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Fine by me, 4Nick......

   ......but didn't Graeme cover most things in his brilliant but unoriginally titled Free Horsepower Book?? :D ;)

...Seriously though guys....it's a top idea that could save loads of people time trawling the site for questions that have been answered many times before......and there are many many more threads out there with answers.....all could be linked to a FAQ...

....Volunteers?:notworthy

JonB:)


Perhaps we could add them to Magella's 'The Skys the limit' book (Forums - Technical - Maintenance 'sticky').
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 11, 2003, 11:56:18 AM
Hmmm.....I think somebody deleted some posts there......not in the spirit of things surely?....:( .....any reason??

.....Anyways.....4Nick:Surely you mean Graeme's book on Meggala's site, yes? ;)  Respect where it's due....

  ....Nitrous?? Well, Garth over here has it on his R32....look on GTR.co.uk....
   Has anyone fitted a nitrous kit to the R33??


Take care all,
   Peace, Love and Free Horsepower......

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 24, 2003, 12:18:41 PM
Hi all...
     Subject change......;)

      ...Where am I going to find a R33GTR front grille to fit the GTSt in the UK??
   (for additional cooling purposes of course..:rolleyes: )

:D

Take care folks,

     JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on May 25, 2003, 01:53:23 PM
I just bought a 2nd hand nitrous kit yesterday.

Will have the thing running a 100HP jet after I sort it out on a 50.
Good thing about the 4/6cyl 'wet' EFI NOS kit is the horsepower ratings are based on a 1.6L turbo, a 2.0L turbo yeilds a few HP over the jet rating and a 2.5L will be about 20% more. So 100HP jet will yeild about 120HP. Should put my engine at about 400 or so HP when activated.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on May 26, 2003, 06:00:58 AM
Jon,
Marc "Crail Loser" / "Aardvark" has NOS on his R33.

He was pushing about 400bhp with a 125hp jet IIRC :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 27, 2003, 10:32:08 AM
Quote
pushing about 400bhp


.....fancy a go with this stuff, Jason??...sounds like value for money??:)

     Yet another subject change...does anyone know where to get the Whiteline suspension kit in the UK??

Take care all,
  Peace,Love and Free(ish) Horsepower......


JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on May 27, 2003, 11:17:12 AM
Errr, I'm gonna go the conventional way about getting that sort of power, and what I can't achieve with engine mechanics, I'll make up for in power to weight ratio.... :jack:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: gtsm on May 28, 2003, 12:10:07 AM
try demon tweeks they can get whiteline stuff

nos sounds good to me aswell


lee

p.s jasono u up for that drag ??
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4thrlz on May 28, 2003, 12:20:09 AM
nos is good im running a dry set up in my r32 running a s2 rb25det with a few moods nos works great no lag no heat and talk bout are kick in the arse its the ****
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on May 28, 2003, 06:10:13 AM
I'm gonna have you Lee, on the drag strip you big tart :p

I heard a rumour that your going large capacity, is this true ??
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: gtsm on May 28, 2003, 11:57:40 PM
u know what they say about rumours

hey get down to that drag strip then mate, dont care u probably will is just taking part that enjoy as long as we can raise some cash for good cause


lee

big capacity what ??? oh u mean an rb30 ???
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on May 29, 2003, 12:00:31 AM


-=RB?0DET=- Is in the works


Only aiming for around 260rwkw though.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 29, 2003, 10:53:39 AM
Jason:
     ...power to weight?? Looking at a little weight loss then are we?;)
 
Lee:
    ....thanx dude....will give Tweeks a shout when I get a min...

Take care all,

     JonB

PS: So what's wrong with 3.0 litres AND nitrous??:D :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on May 29, 2003, 11:23:18 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
PS: So what's wrong with 3.0 litres AND nitrous??:D :D


....spensive.... very spensive....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on May 29, 2003, 11:55:46 AM
3000cc isn't expensive if you were already looking at a re-build :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on May 29, 2003, 12:27:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Joel
3000cc isn't expensive if you were already looking at a re-build :)


True.  You should look into what RIPS is building here for us Kiwi's.  For around $3500 you can get close to 300rwkw.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on May 29, 2003, 04:15:58 PM
4nick8,

have to give us all a lowdown on this budget buildup, sounds good.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on May 29, 2003, 04:39:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by rev210
4nick8,

have to give us all a lowdown on this budget buildup, sounds good.


PM RIPS.  He's the low down bad boy smack'n out those 3ltr rubber rippers.  Though it's all so top secret you'll only get the pudding and NOT the ingredients.  Fair enough though, trade secrets an all.

Far from freehorsepower...

Keep'n the thread free-ish.  Mr-Duckworth, time for a 1 pager recap of free mods.  Go fish out the one from a few hundred posts ago and update it.  Or do a Free Horsepower Upgrades for the R33, and then a Free Horsepower Upgrades for the R32 posts.  Go on son, get to it! ;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on May 30, 2003, 12:02:55 AM
Ducky,
Titanium and Carbon Fibre are rocking my world right now, they're not free but this thread is for the lightly modified ;) :D

MFX, Rev,
Have you guys got dyno sheets I could see, very interested to see what your torque is like.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: gtsm on May 30, 2003, 12:18:31 AM
carbon sounds good jason

by way exhaust sounds awsome went in andys last night

lee
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on May 30, 2003, 12:20:45 AM
what exhaust? i'm looking for a new one, and i'm liking the HKS Hiper and the Tanabe Racing Medallion. Both loud though, and i'd probably get another muffler put in to quieten it down a bit. But still roar when you open it up.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on May 30, 2003, 04:22:42 AM
Here's some pics of my new exhaust system.....
One (http://www.scottishskylines.btinternet.co.uk/Booming_Eck1.jpg)
Two (http://www.scottishskylines.btinternet.co.uk/Booming_Eck2.jpg)
Three (http://www.scottishskylines.btinternet.co.uk/Booming_Eck3.jpg)
Four (http://www.scottishskylines.btinternet.co.uk/Booming_Eck4.jpg)


It's an HKS Ti Hiper Racing 1000ps Drag Muffler, 4" dia. all the way, hand made, 3 month waiting list......bit exclusive......It's loud, very loud but comes with a little silencer bung that fits in the tail pipe and keeps it bearable when I need to go shopping with the Mrs :D

It's also incredibly light, the box it came in had a package weight of 20Kg, and was packed with loads of filler. :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 30, 2003, 10:19:54 AM
Quote
3000cc isn't expensive if you were already looking at a re-build

...shame there are no RB30s going cheap over here......:(
Quote
Mr-Duckworth, time for a 1 pager recap of free mods. Go fish out the one from a few hundred posts ago and update it. Or do a Free Horsepower Upgrades for the R33, and then a Free Horsepower Upgrades for the R32 posts

....leave me alone...I'm old and building a patio......:D ;)
Quote
Titanium and Carbon Fibre are rocking my world right now

...Eh Up Jei-San....;) ...planning to remove aircon/trim etc??? Bet ya didn't pay full retail for that HKs beauty;)

Take care all

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on May 31, 2003, 12:44:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
...Eh Up Jei-San....;) ...planning to remove aircon/trim etc??? Bet ya didn't pay full retail for that HKs beauty;)



Sweet, can you really read that ?
and,
No, I like my comforts cos the Skyline is my daily drive :)
and,
It doesn't really retail cos like I said it's a "bit exclusive", but if you want one.......:D
Title: special post for Tinduck
Post by: 4Nick8 on June 06, 2003, 09:54:20 AM
Brrrmmm!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 06, 2003, 10:49:18 AM
Mmmmmm.....nice Mk1 dude........at least we had one thing worth exporting....:D


....did you say R32 GTS25t4 ???

cool..............:jack:

Newsflash folks......

      ....the world-famous R33 cold-air-partition prototype has eventually melted.....so have just got big sheets of ally for Mk11....:D ........pics will follow.......


Take care all,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on June 06, 2003, 10:52:48 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
....did you say R32 GTS25t4 ???


That's the plan, either that or a 3ltr, or a forged 2.....decisions decisions.... :rolleyes:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 06, 2003, 11:50:29 AM
the RB25DET in the lighter R32 shell with the 4WD system sounds like a perfect budget car.....get a steel turbo, and up the boost.....looking at a standard GTR for half the price, no????

Ford rule......;)


JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on June 06, 2003, 11:57:36 AM
R32 GTS4 = 1440kg so it's about the same weight as the R33 T's.  Not much gain there.  Some major issues getting the 25T over the R32 4wd front end, and even then specialists in NZ have said they can't manage to get the same max bhp outta the 25's as they can the 20's.  But that may just because there are fewer seriosuly worked 25's around.

The 3ltr is always an option, but again all sorts of adaptors are needed to get in in the 4wd chasis, and then the bonnet needs a chop top.

Dunno.  I really need to do a $$$ vs bhp equation for all options, and work out what I want, how it'll drive etc.  Suffice to say, it's a pretty close 3 greyhound race that I am picking a rebuild 2 might win.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rev210 on June 06, 2003, 07:48:56 PM
4nick8,

that doesn't sound right. Mounting points wise the RB20/25's are almost identical and the only mod required sould be on the sump and transmition side of things.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 08, 2003, 11:56:06 AM
Evening all.....:)

   Pics of Cold Air Partition Mark Two, if you're interested......:D

Old plastic partition removed.....'cos it melted a bit.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 08, 2003, 11:58:12 AM
.....use hairdrier to melt partition flat to make template.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 08, 2003, 11:59:19 AM
place on lovely aluminium sheet and scribe round....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 08, 2003, 12:00:38 PM
....like that......;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 08, 2003, 12:02:19 PM
....get the jigsaw out.....trying not to cut through tyres/wheels/table/power cord etc......
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 08, 2003, 12:03:45 PM
.....bend it in all the right places.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 08, 2003, 12:04:56 PM
....mmmmm shiny........:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 08, 2003, 12:06:29 PM
.....test fit, adding a little fireproof foam to seal the top edge.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 08, 2003, 12:10:19 PM
.....the finished result......(apart from a little ally welding, but that can wait a while)

     .....took two hours tonight.......cost next to nothing.....yippee!!


Hope this helps .....

Take care,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on June 08, 2003, 03:46:32 PM
cool... i need to get onto doing something like that...

how did you make the original plastic one? cos it's gonna be damn hard to make a template up with my piping going everywhere, and i'm not really sure where to start.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on June 08, 2003, 10:14:15 PM
Jon,
You got a template for that.....Looks well cool mate :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 09, 2003, 08:16:52 AM
Quote
how did you make the original plastic one? cos it's gonna be damn hard to make a template up with my piping going everywhere, and i'm not really sure where to start

Cardboard. Scissors. Black marker pen. Many attempts and much swearing:D

Jason: I could get some graph paper.....or just draw round it and post it to ya......:)

Take care all,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on June 09, 2003, 09:57:14 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rev210
that doesn't sound right. Mounting points wise the RB20/25's are almost identical and the only mod required sould be on the sump and transmition side of things.


PM RIPS, he is building them, I think it's problems with the FWD, yea sump definately, I'm not too sure what else....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on June 10, 2003, 09:58:24 AM
Jon,
Just had a nother look at your last photo, I think with my Blitz SUS filter I'll have to modify it anyway, so I'll just start from scratch, shouldn't take too long to perfect. (Famous last words :eek: )
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 10, 2003, 11:02:57 AM
Jason:
   I've done a template anyway dude....someone should find it useful. :)
   You could easily modify the centre arch to go around your square-to-round filter adapter. Just cut the template from card and have a mess around.

   Take care all,

    JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on June 10, 2003, 11:15:36 AM
Partition template for all...........

Hope I've done this right....you should be able to print out the 4 parts on A4 sheets....and lay them out in a square.

This is for the R33 GTSt using the original Nissan funnel, btw....:)

Cars with frontmounts should omit the arch cutout on the left?

Different pods may require a little adjustment on the centre cutout. The little hole above it lines up with a hole on the AFM allowing the two to be screwed together.

Hope this works ......

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: GT-R34 on June 12, 2003, 11:59:06 AM
it took me 4 hours to read this whole thread. good information
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: richyr32gtr on August 28, 2003, 10:49:37 PM
I heard the mesh is there purely for protection against foreign materials. Removed mine because myself and a mate figured out that there was a 13% (from memory) flow restriction due the surface area of the mesh. Judging by the size of the square holes in the mesh, youd think that the air filter would be good enough to filter out anything that big???? if not, youve got something seriously wrong with your induction system. Just dont go stickin your fingers, or anything else for that matter, down there or you WILL break the heater wires. Also, the mesh doesn't "straighten" airflow. It's hardly thick enough to have any straightening properties whatsoever. if anything, i'd say it would have a more turbulent effect on the flow. Guess it was more of a security feature considering the replacement cost of an airflow meter. Cheers.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Modified on September 16, 2003, 05:01:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by richyr32gtr
I heard the mesh is there purely for protection against foreign materials. Removed mine because myself and a mate figured out that there was a 13% (from memory) flow restriction due the surface area of the mesh. Judging by the size of the square holes in the mesh, youd think that the air filter would be good enough to filter out anything that big???? if not, youve got something seriously wrong with your induction system. Just dont go stickin your fingers, or anything else for that matter, down there or you WILL break the heater wires. Also, the mesh doesn't "straighten" airflow. It's hardly thick enough to have any straightening properties whatsoever. if anything, i'd say it would have a more turbulent effect on the flow. Guess it was more of a security feature considering the replacement cost of an airflow meter. Cheers.


Don't know this is such a good idea, removing the mesh will lean out the fuel map unless you remap your ECU to suit.

By removing the mesh you get a bigger airflow for the same sensor voltage readings and the stock ECU will think there is less air going into the engine then what there actually is hence -> leaner mixtures.

It is a trick used with Gen 3 V8 SS Commodores as the stock maps run way too rich and hurt power, knocking at the AFM mesh leans out the mixtures nicely, don't know that the same is true for Nissans (or other cars)

In any case, unless you are running higher boost and air flow rates, I doubt the AFM is causing too much of a restriction compared to the airbox and filter.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: richyr32gtr on September 19, 2003, 07:12:55 PM
why would you get same sensor voltage with a bigger flow? The whole idea behind the sensor is that the heater wire cools respective to air flow. The more/less flow the cooler/hotter respectively thus your different voltages. So if you freed up the restrictions, youd get more flow, but the heater wires would cool a little more to make correct airflow readings wouldn't they?

Richo
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Modified on September 19, 2003, 10:03:24 PM
No, hot-wire sensors only measure the air velocity of the air immediately around it (like within 0.1-0.5 mm of the sensor itself).  Not the flow rate.

Air Flow Rate is roughly determined by:

Q (Flow) = Velocity (v) * Flow Area (A)
or Q=vA

When you knock out the mesh, you increase the Flow Area, and change the calibration of the sensor.  So for the same airflow velocities (and hence the same sensor voltages) you actually have a larger airflow through the sensor since you have increased the Area (A).

Let's put it another way, for a 160 cfm airflow through an 80 mm sensor with 13% of the area taken up by the mesh, the air velocity reading will be  ~ 17.2 m/s.

If you knock the mesh out, for the same 160 cfm, with the increase in flow area, the air velocity reading will drop to ~ 15 m/s, hence the AFM reads 13% lower and hence decreases the injector duty cycle -> lean the fuel mixtures.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 21, 2003, 01:08:14 PM
That's quite a convincing argument for leaning out the mixture by removing the mesh, Modified.
Equally convincing as the cases for it richening the mixture....(see laminar flow earlier)
.....so which is the truth????

I've noticed no difference at all without the mesh, 'cos it's in such close proximity to the filter gauze anyway....I just removed it to fit the pod better....

So, to cut the crap again, so to speak, has anyone actually measured exhaust emissions both with and without the mesh to see if it makes any real difference at all??:)
(would be interesting??)

Take care all,

Peace, Horsepower and Free Love....

JonB;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Modified on September 22, 2003, 08:46:13 PM
I can only offer the following comments based on what I know/have seen Tinduck:
1.  Laminar flow will only occur at Reynolds numbers (Re) < 2000.  I won't go into the Fluid/Gas Mechanics here as to the "Why". (search for references to "Moody Diagram" for those keen to get bored)

For an 80 mm AFM (example) and air at 20 degrees Celsius, Re<2000 is where the air velocity is 5 metres/second or less, which equates to less than 50 cubic feet/minute.

Under full load/throttle, the air flow is obviously going to be much higher than this and will hence be fully turbulent, NOT laminar.  Having mesh or no mesh makes no difference to the characteristics of the flow, it is always going to be turbulent.  Besides that, as you've indicated, the much, much finer air filter itself is going to diffuse the flow a helluva lot more than what a coarse mesh screen ever will.

2.  AFAIK, the coarse screen is there to protect the probe against foreign object damage when performing maintenance or when the AFM is removed from the car.

3.  I have not seen the effects of removing the mesh on a Nissan, however I have seen measurements for a VT II/VX SS Commodore.  It went from mixtures of about 10.5:1 (ridiculously rich) to around 11.5-12:1 (leaner).  It was in an article in Zoom, I'll have to see if I can find it...

4.  Going back to why you might remove the mesh in the 1st place, I've found through experience in optimising flow systems that unless you significantly reduce the major restrictions, getting rid of a minor restriction like a coarse screen will do very little for increasing power.

As for what the major restrictions in an air intake are, they almost always are:
a) The air filter and airbox; and
b) The intercooler

So, IMHO, I belive that you should remove these restrictions first before you think about doing something with the AFM, throttle body and intake pipes.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 23, 2003, 10:18:25 AM
Modified:
   Sensible and complete answer, thanks. Hope you find the Zoom article. If the mesh makes no difference to the flow, as you say, and is only there to prevent FOD, then there should be no difference to mixture or emissions??
   On a side note, my only reason for removing the mesh was to fit the air filter itself. Rather than fabricating an adaptor to fit the AFM to the pod, I bought a filter with a spun ally neck with the same external diameter as the internal diameter of the AFM, so the two are just an interference fit. :)
   So, just another cost-saver, not a mod in itself as such.

Take care,
JonB.

Peace, Love and Free Horsepower...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on September 23, 2003, 05:31:50 PM
new to turbo's and the like ....always had ausie or english cars. so all this bleed valve stuff is a bit confusing. i have however hooked up a manual boost controller, but removed it shortly after as boost was ....what you might say "alittle unreliable", it boosted consistantly in certain gears,but went of the chart in the higher gears.....sounded cool, but i dont think it would last too long like that LOL.
I dont quite know why. a mate of mine said it was probably ECU blah, blah, blah. So i guess my best option is a electronic boost controller?
Who knows?

I would also like to know a bit more about exhausts for R33 GT25t's. sizes, diameter, turbo back, brands etc.

cheers.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on September 23, 2003, 05:54:49 PM
by the way ive sat here for like 4 hours and loved every minute of it. Keep it up.

I LOVE this thread !~!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on September 23, 2003, 05:56:34 PM
HKS Hiper... love the sound of it! I'll do a recording once i've bolted mine in. It's 3.5" straight through so sounds nice :)

Tanabe Racing Medallion also sounds good, it's pretty loud though, but a nice burbly throaty sound.

~Andrew
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on September 23, 2003, 08:54:36 PM
yeah i looked at the HKS hiper,etc, but this is the FREE/CHEAP MOD stuff. I wanna know if there is a way of getting a good exhaust without having to buy the tuning house brands.
Meaning can i fit an exhaust say from pitstop etc and get the same benefits of having a $2000 pre made HKS or GREDDY.
A tricky sublect as people have definate ideas on what they think is the best for the buck.
so let me have it....

Jon: any chance of another summary ????. the last 10 pages were abit of a blur. LOL
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 23, 2003, 09:04:36 PM
yeah course u can get a good performance exhaust for cheaper at like pitstop or another kiwi exhaust shop.
u just have to make sure its big enough and has mandrel bends with a decent high flowing muffler.
downpipe off the turbo and nice piping from engine to turbo maybe have to buy japanese for that, there is quite a bit of 2nd hand japanese exhaust parts that go for much cheaper than new tho.

all depends on budget really.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on September 23, 2003, 09:14:58 PM
yeah... i bought my HKS Hiper for $250 delivered... Just lucky i spose that the guy didn't know what he was selling!

So keep an eye out for bargains on the net.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on September 23, 2003, 09:18:06 PM
OK cool, nice buy fezza.

i'll keep my eyes open.

After reading this thread im gonna run a diagnostic on my R33. i saw the instructions on the net somewhere ages ago anyone got a URL for me or can you tell what to do and what to look for?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on September 23, 2003, 09:31:31 PM
Dave...whats big enough?? :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on September 24, 2003, 02:57:27 AM
This is the one i have...
http://www.overflow.250x.com/diagnostics.htm (http://www.overflow.250x.com/diagnostics.htm)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 24, 2003, 03:09:11 AM
nothings big enuf!haha
nah depends of what power ur going for and how much noise u want.
around the 3 inch mark is about right.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on September 24, 2003, 08:36:50 PM
Hey guys...busy day today.

Cut wire #53....amazing how scary it was when i had the wire cutters on the wire..."is this the right one?"..."am i sure?"...etc etc.
Did it, taped up the ends, took the car for the thrashing of its life and nearly got the needle back to ZERO!!...Stoked as. Still had more to give as I was on 6000rpm , but ran out of road !!

FEZZA- cheers for the URL did the hicas diag everything seemed in order, I went to run the ECU diag, but the link you got me was alittle fuzzy on it. I figured I had an ECU with no LEDs, but couldnt find the selector screw to start the diagnostic ??

Anyone got any clues?

TINDUCK- I downloaded your template and will have an airbox in a day or two ....thanx you are a life saver.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on September 25, 2003, 02:36:25 AM
No problem matey....just make sure you post up some pics when you're done....:)

Take care,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on September 25, 2003, 02:59:36 AM
nah dude... i haven't done one myself. I've just got that page bookmarked
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: cjsewell on September 25, 2003, 10:30:29 AM
Hey there just thought if anyone ever thought of spraying this stuff in their cold air box or directly on there I/C pipes, any comments? At $20 a can do you think it’s worth it? Could even “jimmy” up a solenoid to spray it.



Non CFC Ozone safe propellant. Instantly freezing spray for rapidly cooling components to detect intermittent thermal faults, dry joints and overheating problems. Non-flammable. 250g size  (http://www.paeroacomputers.co.nz/forumstuff/pics/spray.jpg)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on September 25, 2003, 04:42:08 PM
what? u mean if u were at the drags or something? id probably just use a bag of ice instead but you could try it and tell us if it works!haha

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: onboostr33 on October 06, 2003, 10:02:43 PM
YIP, ITS BEEN USED BEFORE...AND YES IT DOES WORK :) use a garden sprayer with some really icy water and spray your intercooler and then spray the freeze spray over it....its quite good for air>air intercoolers on dragstrips where they don't usually want water to be used on intercoolers.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: oldmech on October 07, 2003, 12:10:28 AM
maybe the same as spraying methynol or alcochol.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Razool on October 16, 2003, 11:47:10 AM
hey, since this is a free mod thread, but dont own a skyline :P, any tips for a 1600sport motor? "mk2escort" ive heard that setting it alight and claiming insurance is a good way to upgrade to a skyline?

"Edit" - ps , its got a K&N filter and lumpy cams and a reasonable exhaust system, any other options :D
i kno it aint skyline but cmon i want sum free power or anything :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on October 16, 2003, 12:54:53 PM
Quote
ive heard that setting it alight and claiming insurance is a good way to upgrade to a skyline?


good suggestion!haha

nah, u cud try running it on avgas.

has the timing been changed from standard?

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Razool on October 16, 2003, 01:24:43 PM
dunno if the timing has been changed aye, i thort the timing was out 1 time but it was just a loose lead, it was hardly starting and splurting and all and it was just a lead to the distributor...

any "DIY" jobs u fullas kno of, and for a shortened gear shifter, best way is just to hacksaw sum off aye :P elenkey the gearknob bak on :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: cjsewell on October 16, 2003, 05:28:41 PM
I hack sawed my gear stick leaver in my R32, took off about an inch replaced the knob with an after market one, looks and feels sweet as.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Razool on October 17, 2003, 09:05:59 AM
sounds like a mission while at my mates house dis weekend, w00p w00p FRIDAY
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Ralf S on November 05, 2003, 11:49:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
cheers asid, top reply mate.
 ....which grade mobil1 do you use, the 0w40 or the 15w50 ?
 .....weird, but over here mobil1 is about the most expensive synthetic you can buy, at £34 for 4 litres against £25 for 5 litres on other good brands....
     cheers,
                 Jon


hi,i coundnt help but notice that u pay an arm and a leg for mobil 1,i used to do this too(i get it wholesale in the 60 liter drum and its still expensive)

now,i was holidaz in france (Normandy) and i ended up buying loads of oil,Mobil 1 oil,for 20 euros for the 5l canister,wow,that was cheap,so i bought 4 of em.,mind u ,mobil 1 here costs anywere from 35 Euro(dealer price with alot of connections) to about 59.99 for 5l in a store .
At a cardealer u would pay about 70 Euros for 5 litres.


so,the next time u go to france(or know anyone going there on holidays,just ask em to buy oil for u at the Le EClare..thats like a french Wal Mart .

do the math,you schould save about 50 percent or more!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Sinista_Drifter on November 11, 2003, 01:30:08 PM
just thought id ask cjsewell, where do you buy a bottle of that freeze spray???? love to get some to use on my intercooler!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: onboostr33 on November 11, 2003, 01:32:36 PM
dick smith electronics.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: cjsewell on November 11, 2003, 05:46:57 PM
I prefer Jaycar electronics, click here (http://www1.jaycar.co.nz/productView.asp?ID=NA1000) to go to their webpage.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on November 11, 2003, 07:49:47 PM
wouldn't the heat of the engine bay warm the intercooler up again anyway while you are waiting on the start line?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on November 12, 2003, 10:18:44 AM
Evening all....:)

Fezza: Yes, eventually....basically, the spray is trying to pull heat from anywhere around it, be it the intercooler, or the air in the engine bay itself...this kind of effect can really work, but as you say, it's effective time span is limited...

Ralf: thanx for the info  :)

Take care all,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: cjsewell on November 12, 2003, 05:40:43 PM
If you built a bracket and bodged a solenoid up to the nozzle of the can you could spray the stuff onto the intercooler from the cabin.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: shane blyth on November 17, 2003, 11:24:20 AM
Quote
Originally posted by DEVEUS
Hey all.
Also,  Tinduck, I wouldn't go and bend the actuator arm either.  I spoke to Rob from WAR Motorsport yesterday and he said yes it does increase boost pressure to what ever you set it to and yes it does hold boost where a bleed valave doesn't BUT, it means at 6000 RPM when you let the boost go out the wastegate the wastegate can't open as far and can cause all sorts of problems including the possibility of damaging the turbo!  :eek:

????????

Ben


Just apoint about actuator arm length... I did this on my WRX
some WRX's actually have an adjustable length actuator arm and very small length adjustments make quite a significant difference.
I had a link in the WRX and sold the car so removed alot of the addons... I was getting fuel cuts all the time so what i did as my actuator arm was non l;ength adjustable was to unbolt the actuator and try a few different thinkness washers under it to adjust it's length 1/2 a mm make a big difference...
havnt looked at the skyline i just bought but there is a thought for everyone... done bend that rod do it more scientifically by trying an adjustable length arm (could make on up) or try spacing the whole actuator... you may need to actually file the spacer/washers you use to really fine tune it but it worked well on the WRX when i had it

:notworthy
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: sewid on December 12, 2003, 07:39:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Partition template for all...........

Hope I've done this right....you should be able to print out the 4 parts on A4 sheets....and lay them out in a square.

This is for the R33 GTSt using the original Nissan funnel, btw....:)

Cars with frontmounts should omit the arch cutout on the left?

Different pods may require a little adjustment on the centre cutout. The little hole above it lines up with a hole on the AFM allowing the two to be screwed together.


Looks very similar to my own partition i built out of a bit of aluminium a few months back. I have attached an image below. I have lined the engine side of mine with reflective insulating foam. The afm also bolts directly onto the partition and an adapter protrudes for the filter to attach to.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: sewid on December 12, 2003, 07:41:13 PM
Another pic showing the insulation.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: sewid on December 12, 2003, 07:43:19 PM
One last one showing it installed, note how it bolts into the stock airbox holes.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 13, 2003, 09:17:15 AM
Sewid:
    Nice one, matey....very neat design.:)
The filter looks a little on the small side though.....if you estimate the INTERNAL surface area of the cone, (average circumference of top and bottom x length is good enough), and it is less than the area of the original panel, you may not be seeing the gains you hope for.
Take care, and keep up the good work,

JonB

Peace, Love and Trackdays.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: sewid on December 15, 2003, 10:20:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
Sewid:
    Nice one, matey....very neat design.:)
The filter looks a little on the small side though.....if you estimate the INTERNAL surface area of the cone, (average circumference of top and bottom x length is good enough), and it is less than the area of the original panel, you may not be seeing the gains you hope for.
Take care, and keep up the good work,

JonB

Peace, Love and Trackdays.....


yeah that was a temporary filter on there. I have a much larger one on these days.

Thanks.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on December 16, 2003, 11:22:00 AM
Hey sewid nice partition,

What did you use for insulation? Ive just knocked up a partition(stage 1, fairly thin alluminium) and will get it cut out again in a thicker guage soon, but I would like to glue a heat reflective coating on the engine bay side and I heard glueing 5-10mm thick Polystyrene to the filter side will also help reduce ambient temperatures.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Joel on December 16, 2003, 12:08:57 PM
Apparently the best flow from the turbo's exhaust wheel can be had by using a cone type shape that matches the exhaust wheel's visible size then comes out to the diamater of your exhaust. Same with the wastegate.

Any 1 want to fiddle with a custom dump pipe?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 21, 2003, 11:22:30 AM
Quote
the best flow from the turbo's exhaust wheel can be had by using a cone type shape that matches the exhaust wheel's visible size then comes out to the diamater of your exhaust

Joel: Hi dude, cool theory....is there a solid basis for it, or is it just a sweeping generalisation? The length of the cone seems not to affect your theory, but it increases the filtration area...

Yours, interested as always,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: sewid on December 22, 2003, 10:36:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ||R3CON|R33
Hey sewid nice partition,

What did you use for insulation? Ive just knocked up a partition(stage 1, fairly thin alluminium) and will get it cut out again in a thicker guage soon, but I would like to glue a heat reflective coating on the engine bay side and I heard glueing 5-10mm thick Polystyrene to the filter side will also help reduce ambient temperatures.


I used some foam rubber with a reflective flexible foil preglued on at the factory. This was available at a local store called Clark Rubber very cheaply.

I was also thinking of insulating the other side. It makes sense to insulate the aluminium to cut down on the heat radiating from it.
Title: Fibreglass melting point
Post by: Gobiz on December 25, 2003, 07:51:26 PM
After reading this excellent post, got a few questions:

1. Anyone know the melting point of fibreglass?
I'm interested in wrapping my intercooler outlet pipe with fibreglass cloth to insulate it. Worried it will melt.

I'm also interested in making a heat shield for my pod filter out of fibreglass....since it's a good insulator......but will it melt under the bonnet?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on December 30, 2003, 10:08:46 AM
Hi Gobiz:
I'll confidently stake my whole reputation on the fact that it will not melt.....( but that's a very small thing to bet with)
....just don't try building exhausts and turbos with it....

....Anyone disagree??

Take care all,
Happy New Year

JonB

PS: Is it really a good insulator? Weight for weight??
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: JasonO on December 30, 2003, 10:36:47 AM
Should be fine, but I don't see any measureable benefit being had from it.

BTW. Hi Jon, Merry Christmas you old fart :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 04, 2004, 03:08:35 AM
JasonO: ...and to you matey.

....and Happy New Year to you lot and your families....

Take care all,

JonB

tinduckracing:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on January 05, 2004, 01:08:07 PM
happy new year Tinduck (captain).

does anyone know if Polysterene glued to the Airfilter side of a partition will heat up to the point of a fire risk?

Its a good insulator and with that and a combination of the alluminium reflecting engine heat on the otherside it should do ok i think
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on January 06, 2004, 10:41:07 PM
Bets for when this thread hits 50 pages?......by its own accord ofcourse.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 09, 2004, 12:33:20 PM
Quote
does anyone know if Polysterene glued to the Airfilter side of a partition will heat up to the point of a fire risk?


..doubt it would be a problem on the cooler side....and it don't exactly weigh much..:D
....but it wouldn't hurt to get the opinions of a few materials experts......anyone?????

.....or you could measure the max temperature inside your partition, and heat some (I assume you mean expanded) polystyrene to the same temperature, and see what happens???

....but that's the boring way.....;)

Take care dude,

JonB
tinduckracing
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on January 13, 2004, 04:58:02 PM
okok. I tried, albeite not very scientificlly, the old "will polystyrene melt/burn at engine temp" test.
The results were good no burning , no fire no mess. I used 20mm thick Poly loosley placed against the cold air partition and let the car idle for about 10 mins after giving it a good run. The engine was already at full running temp (about half way up the temp guage) and it didnt have any problems at the idle, I did this to test what it woulkd be like with minimal airflow.

So no real worries. I just have to work out what glue to use. What heat reflective substance I can put on the engine side....and how to make it look alittle less like a playschool craft time creation. lol
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: That Harry Connick Jr Guy on January 13, 2004, 05:30:48 PM
Polystyrene does not like any solvents either, like petrol or other petrolium products, let alone heat, and flame, probably not the best environment for it then.

Fibre glass batts are always a good option you will need to pack them between two layers of metal or some such though...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 16, 2004, 01:08:31 PM
....a polished aluminium alloy partition with 25mm expanded polystyrene sheet bonded to it with good old PVA glue ( with the 'styrene on the cool side ) might just work ;)
...as long as there is a positive air pressure in the partition....i.e: more cold air is flowing into the partition then into the engine bay right next to it...
...i.e: the partition does NOT need to be airtight as long as the cold air is flowing out rather than the warm air flowing in...
...and the partition is taking care of the radiant heat from the engine bay...
...which reminds me to tackle the problem of the small amount of radiant/convected heat coming from the small run of intercooler pipe in the partition.....any ideas??

Peace, Love and Free Horsepower,

JonB

tinduckracing
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on January 16, 2004, 02:17:53 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
....which reminds me to tackle the problem of the small amount of radiant/convected heat coming from the small run of intercooler pipe in the partition.....any ideas??

tinduckracing


Aluminum tape.  It looks fast, is easy to use, and doesn't cost a skillion bucks.

That + a huge pickup from below the front bar outta do it :p
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on January 18, 2004, 10:24:09 PM
that would be nice 4nick8 but the R33's are pretty tight on space around the air intake, the r32 has an area suitable for drilling a decent sized hole, but the R33 intake area is smaller.

The best fix, allbeit not the cheap way, is to relocate the intercooler intake pipe ie a front mount with custom plenum chamber.....but that is $$$.

Back to the polystyrene issue. I havent yet attached it as im still alitte concerned about the amount of heat it will have to put up with aswell as the whole glue thing, im gonna go to a insulation type store this week and do some reasearch on some products to use.

Will keep you all posted.

Happy horsepower hunting all !!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on January 19, 2004, 09:46:28 AM
Quote
Originally posted by ||R3CON|R33
that would be nice 4nick8 but the R33's are pretty tight on space around the air intake, the r32 has an area suitable for drilling a decent sized hole, but the R33 intake area is smaller.


eeerrrmmm....take the out the surge tank, Air flow meter (MAP IT BABY!), add a couple of hours with a panel hammer and anything will fit :P

Quote
Originally posted by ||R3CON|R33 The best fix, allbeit not the cheap way, is to relocate the intercooler intake pipe ie a front mount with custom plenum chamber.....but that is $$$.[/B]


Keep it free people!!! Remember the thread name.... :)

Quote
Originally posted by ||R3CON|R33
Back to the polystyrene issue. I havent yet attached it as im still alitte concerned about the amount of heat it will have to put up with aswell as the whole glue thing, im gonna go to a insulation type store this week and do some reasearch on some products to use.[/B]


Has anyone tried just putting a piece of poly' in a "microwave safe" container and jamming it under the bonnet (either somewhere where there is a lot of space, or have one of your R32 friends sort it for you)?

Just a thought (allbeit a rational one).

PEACE
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 19, 2004, 01:41:36 PM
Quote
Has anyone tried just putting a piece of poly' in a "microwave safe" container and jamming it under the bonnet (either somewhere where there is a lot of space, or have one of your R32 friends sort it for you)?


Genius. Pure genius.
   ...And if it doesn't melt (which it won't), then will someone build the damn thing then measure the temperature difference between the sides of the partition??

......oh, and if someone can come up with an almost free front-mount idea, then that takes the pipe away altogether:D
......I don't think you need a custom plenum for a decent front mount either...
;)

Take care all,
Keep up the debate,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 19, 2004, 01:50:04 PM
....Oh, and I've recently heard it said that the flow of cold air into any engine bay at speed is enough to render the idea of any partition useless. i.e: even though at idle there is a marked difference in temperature between the engine bay and the intake charge, once the vehicle is moving, the engine bay air is replaced constantly with fresh colder air, so the only gains from a CAP would be from any slight ram-air effects on the intake....

....Now, I believe my car is faster after building the CAP.....so, does it work, or is it placebo??

Take care all, keep up the good work,

good 2 hear from you, 4nick,

JonB

Peace, Love and Free Horsepower.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on January 24, 2004, 11:04:19 PM
I agree, it makes logical sense that whilst the car is moving with a good external ducting pipe the cold air would be sufficient to provide a cool air charge, irrespective of whether a partition is in place.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on January 25, 2004, 01:58:00 PM
i really notice the difference when i take off at the lights (i have no CAP or CAI), it really bogs down, and once i get moving it gets much more responsive.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 26, 2004, 02:17:30 PM
...I think that all this needs is a volunteer with a CAP and two temperature probes ( like those cheap in/out ice warning thingies you get from accessory shops) to measure the temperature differential between the filter and the engine bay at idle, and again at speed....
....that should prove things one way or the other...

....or even do a few drag runs both with and without the partition...

Take care all,

JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on January 26, 2004, 10:02:03 PM
I run a CAP with CAI under bumper thru vent via a drainpipe size induct tube,  science along with common logic proves this to be an excellent source of fresh cool external air.  Try it, you'll be suprised. Of course an UCU chip along with octane booster all adds to the overall increase in performance.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on January 26, 2004, 10:06:17 PM
Oops typo..should read ECU (not UCU)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on January 26, 2004, 10:12:49 PM
Anyone got any ideas on how to flush transmission without removing trans sump?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on January 28, 2004, 12:34:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gerbal
I agree, it makes logical sense that whilst the car is moving with a good external ducting pipe the cold air would be sufficient to provide a cool air charge, irrespective of whether a partition is in place.


...right.  Now my F1 magazine (Dec Man of the Year Aus edition) tells me that at some 300 clicks on around 18000 rpm the BMW engine sucks in 460 litres of air.

The obvious BMW/Skyline comparison aside :P We must still suck some at TWO, not like we'll be whippin children off the sidewalk or anything, clearly not quite 460 litres worth, but still.....

So is everyone comfortable that the small hole in their front bar provides adaquate ventalation, and if not, is the air flow around the engine it self cool enough to be breathing?  Hmmm......  Worth thinking about.  Perhaps a half hour alone with my bonnet and a pair of aviation cutters might be in order..... :P
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SomonA Skyline R34 25GTST on January 29, 2004, 02:45:50 PM
I need help! I just bought a 2000 R34 25GTT 5MT and it is just all stock.  I would like to know how to turn my ride into a BEAST! Starting with cheaper mods first of course... between $0-$2500 USD.  After about a month or two I will start purchasing the more expensive mods but the goal I'm trying to achieve is 350-400HP... is that possible?  I have a thread on the general skyline disscussion page thats called "How to Raise a Beast" Any help would be MOST appriciated. Thanks!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ajmck on January 31, 2004, 03:19:56 AM
Long time listener first time poster...

Fantastic site (kudos to Tinduck the godfather of free horse power) all the answers I’ve needed have already fully addressed, so rather than a question I’d like to way into the debate of temperature differences between the two partitions.

Rather than use polystyrene why not create a "ceramic" sandwedge by that i mean two aluminium sections with an old oven tile or some thing of the sort between them. I know it’s a bit hard up for room under there especially in an R33 but all up it should be no thicker than 10mm. Any thoughts?? Or has this already been addressed and i'm just slow on the up take...

If that fails I’m just gunna head down to my local Bunnings (Building supplies shop) and find some sort of housing insulation and use it.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on January 31, 2004, 12:45:42 PM
Hi ajmck, and thanks...

   Here's yet another wild and crazy ( and most likely impossible and pointless) idea for you experts to chew over....
   
   Our greatest fear when doing these small homebrewed modifications is that we are risking leaning out at high revs, i.e: exceeding the limits of the injectors/fuel pump etc....
   An Air/Fuel ratio meter would be a very handy tool to keep an eye on things...but can we build one instead of buying an expensive Japanese one??

  Just an idea, but is it possible for one of the bright sparks on this site to take a signal from the existing Lambda sensor, and send it to a modified voltmeter to give an instantaneous rich/lean reading, i.e: loading the meter down to read between zero and one volt, showing an output range from the oxygen sensor of rich through stochiometric to lean in real time, for an initial investment of about bugger all??
  Apologies if this has been done before, and if not, why not??

Take care all,

JonB
Peace, Love and Free Horsepower....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on February 03, 2004, 10:35:25 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING

   An Air/Fuel ratio meter would be a very handy tool to keep an eye on things...but can we build one instead of buying an expensive Japanese one??


Build one?  Hell no.  Spend more money Tinduck-san!  Buy espensive meters, you buy now.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/A_0217/article.html?popularArticle

or

http://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/Carbs/AFMonitor/AFMonitor.htm

or

http://www.google.com (duh!)

....ahhh the internet.... it's not just for porn you know :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on February 04, 2004, 09:01:01 AM
Quote
it's not just for porn you know


????? ...How so? Explain please???


:D

Thanks matey
JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on February 04, 2004, 09:24:29 PM
ahhh bugger , I just fitted a complete 3" system and binned the O2 sensor, finally I real reason to have one, other than the environment....blah blah blah.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: ||R3CON|R33 on February 04, 2004, 09:30:47 PM
OK folks, sorry bout the no post syndrome, but went to the Nats, built a bed base etc.

Right down to work. I have continued with the CAP. Glued polystrene to the filter side and stuck this reflective laminate type crap to the other side. The whole thing looks pretty crap at the moment, but works a treat. Will take some temp readings at idle and high speed. air temp monitor with memory, $ 19.95 at Dick Smiths.

If it actually gives a reasonable result Ill clean up the CAP and if someone fills me in on how to upload pics, ill post some.

Happy Hunting people. :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on February 05, 2004, 09:42:23 AM
Use the attach file button just below the 'smiles' window in your reply..
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: dmora on February 12, 2004, 09:47:23 AM
I havent read through all of this thread, nor do i have any experience modding a GTR, but in the Supra community here in the USA, its rediculously easy to get HP with cheap/free mods.
I will assume that most of what im going to post has already been said. Only things i would miss would be the GTR specifics. Then again, turbo engine design is relatively similar across brands and models.

From my experience, intakes and cat-backs alone yield very limited results, generally nothing worth braggin about. However in conjunction with other mods they are more effective. For example we dynoed a stock Supra with an intake and cat-back at 327rwhp. Of course in the US, the Supra is rated at 320 hp.

First thing to get notable HP is to pull the catalytic converters.
I gained 50rwhp by pulling these and replacing it with a 3" down pipe from the turbo to the cat-back. However, you run the risk of failing emmissions (if your location tests for these) if you do this.

The only problem in doing this is that you start to boost more easily with reduced back pressure. So you might encounter overboosting and fuel cut. Getting a fuel cut defenser from Greddy is a cheap piece to allow you to boost over what the factory ECU limits through fuel cut.
This is of course assuming that the GTR limits boost in this fashion.

A manual boost controller would be the next cheap mod to keep boost at a specific pressure so that you dont over boost. Of course getting an electronic boost controller would be suggested so that you can change boost pressure with out having to pop the hood.

Then maybe an intake and exhaust to totally complete the breathing. However, consider that if you take off the stock intake plumbing you are exposing the intake to the higher engine bay temps. A solution may be to route a large hose some where to the open air in the front of the car. I think i saw something like that on an R32 race car where one head lamp was actually an intake canal.

Now assuming that the ECU will over compensate for this new free breathing, and higher boosting, it might try to flood the engine with fuel making it run rich. Getting your fuel tuned should yield better fuel efficiency and more HP. This is of course where things start to get expensive, requiring fuel management computers and dyno time to tune them.

Hopefully this will just add to and maybe consolidate the good info in this thread.
:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: dmora on February 12, 2004, 10:11:10 AM
i guess one of the other important things to note are mods people suggest which have no real effect at all.

Like spraying water or compressed gas on an intercooler.  Might help if you live in Africa or are running back to back laps at a road course. But its only short lived. Maybe a minute or so before the IC temp goes back to ambient.

Also, at a drag strip, doing burn-outs on street tires. Totally useless. Infact it might make it worse, because the compound is designed to be gradually heated up, and instead is just ripped to shreds.

i'm sure there are other dumb things people do, but im at work right now and am spacing out. :p
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on February 12, 2004, 11:10:11 AM
Clearly wayeee to much time on your hands dude!  At work you say? geez, wish I had a job where I could loaf around in a swivel chair piss-ars'n around on the internet all day....

....no wait, I  DO!

OK.  Somewhere in the deep dark recesses of this thread is a 1/2 decent summary that goes over the many millions of cheap tricks you can do under the bonnet of your skyline  to make it haul out.  Though, generally speaking these low cost mods can be done to most engines that respond well to tinkering.

1stly - I want to cover off the fuel cut bypass you mention.  I am a firm believer in the full after market ECU option.  This is because there are skillions of devices available designed to 'trick' the factory ECU into thinking something else is happening.  The Fuel Cut is just 1 example of this.  'Chipping' is another, as well as all sorts of 'intercept' options etc etc.  By the time you've added sufficient decievers into the factory loom to achieve the desired purpose you will have spent heaps more then you would've if you'd taken the MOTEC/LINK/WOLF (etc) ECU option.

2ndly - Exhausting work.  Brilliant, though just like most things, the rate of flow is only as good as the slowest point.  In many overseas examples this is the Cat (bad kitty!).  A signifigantly pointless bottle neck.  If not this then it's probably gonna be intake (air will only go out of the engine as fast as it goes in).  Now here's where this freehorsepower thread comes into it's own!  Have a look on page 1, or page 2, or any page there after to join the heated debate on induction option.  Though in super-executive-summary-style it's pretty much: Cheap pod, plus good partitioning from the heat of the engine bay, plus good feed from somewhere up front.

3rdly - Boost can be molested by a good cheap bleed tap from your local spa pool guy.  This is about a 10-20 bukka.

4thly (not even sure that's a word) - If you're worried about fueling under load now you've messed with the boost.  Try the good gas (it costs more so the arabs will love you), or a cheap Fuel Pressure Regulator can give the factory injectors a bit of a workout.

5thly - I'm gonna pretend to do something work related, least my boss checks up on me.... :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on February 20, 2004, 05:25:22 PM
Holy ****.

I cant believe this thread is still alive.

Its been..two years... since I had my skyline and helped the beginnings of this

you are all crazy nissan drivers.

crazy

-Tristan
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on February 20, 2004, 06:14:05 PM
He has returned.

Get

A

Real

Car.

;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on February 20, 2004, 06:41:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by 4Nick8
He has returned.

Get

A

Real

Car.

;)


I did.. when I sold the skyline. Best thing I ever did :)

I should probably .. run away now :)

-Tristan
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 04, 2004, 12:38:09 PM
Quote
i guess one of the other important things to note are mods people suggest which have no real effect at all.

Like spraying water or compressed gas on an intercooler. Might help if you live in Africa or are running back to back laps at a road course. But its only short lived. Maybe a minute or so before the IC temp goes back to ambient.

..Hi, surely "a minute or so" is more than adequate for most quarter mile runs? (unless you take over a minute to run a quarter?)
;)
..It seems strange that a mod adopted by world rally teams has "no real effect at all"....

P.S: Hi Flup :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: flupstar on March 04, 2004, 04:11:47 PM
Agreed. Thats like saying nitrous has no real effect at all cause it only lasts a minute or two.

pfft!

Greetings! I hope your car is really really fast now tinduck. You've been hacking away at this free horsepower stuff for years..

If not, I will have to pronounce this thread a failure!

-Tristan
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 05, 2004, 09:50:44 AM
hehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe...:D

Quote
Greetings! I hope your car is really really fast now tinduck. You've been hacking away at this free horsepower stuff for years..


...Yes, really really fast....and reliable, clean, tidy, rust-free, well-endowed in the audio department, regularly serviced, well-loved, impeccably maintained, reasonably priced and very much for sale........:D :D :D

Take care Flup,

Peace, Love and Free Horsepower....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R33vit on March 08, 2004, 08:15:51 AM
WOW.
I've been reading this thread for the last couple of weeks. It's taken me that long to get to here..
Very informative, keep up the good work guys.

Well Im new to the Lines and I must say it is one of the best cars I have ever owned..

In regards to the CAP and more to the point how to sheild it thermally. I dont know what its called but I'm going to build mine and stick some of that stuff the windscreen shades are made of. You know the silver reflective stuff you put across the windscreen when parking your car in the sun.

It keeps the temp of the interior down it may work OK for a CAP..

Also tried the boost controller from the AutoSpeed D.I.Y site and I have had a good result with boost kicking in to 12psi with no spiking at all..

Tinduck Love this thread mate ;)

__________________________
If it moves, choke it
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: losseunit on March 08, 2004, 11:54:13 AM
this thread is so long but good it has a lot hellpfull info i cant belive its not butter
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: NZ WILD GTT on March 09, 2004, 01:46:16 PM
where do i find wire 52 for the speed cut ! and does it work !
and should it do it ! and who do it blame if it frys my gtt 99
there seems to be lots of questions and all shorts of answers im new to this and would spew if told the wrong things and would have to spend heps of gas to track down the offenders
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: losseunit on March 09, 2004, 02:29:01 PM
sorry mate dont look at me as i am in the same boat best opition  go to a auto sparkk and thay might be able to help you out if not read the hole forum cos there is a rough diagram about what wire dose what
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R33vit on March 09, 2004, 09:14:03 PM
Its wire 53, you cut it at your own risk

Here is a diagram
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R33vit on March 09, 2004, 09:19:15 PM
Then again your's is a GTT R43, the diagram is for a GTS-t R-33 dont know if its the same. You could re solder it if it where wrong...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on March 09, 2004, 09:39:27 PM
CUT ALL THE WIRES!!!  :devil:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 10, 2004, 10:19:45 AM
Evening all:

R33vit: Welcome dude, hope to help....;)

NZ Wild: You said it yourself, the ECUs may not be the same, so don't risk chopping your wiring without the correct diagram and a little basic electrical knowledge....If in doubt, dont.....:)

losseunit: Fair point, if anyone is unsure of what they're doing, get a proper sparky on the job.....

Gerbal: ....Behave.....:rolleyes: :D

Peace, Love and Free Horsepower.....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: gtstCruiser on March 10, 2004, 10:29:43 AM
tin duck ur a crack up.. but damn i gotta read all these pages before i even know what ur talkin bout as im a new skyliner :s

hopefully will find some good freebies in here hehe!

Cheers Mike
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R33vit on March 11, 2004, 01:46:46 AM
ThanX Tinduck

Raced my Line for the first time tonight at WSID eastern creek..
I cant believe I pulled a 13.9 @ 100MPH on the second run woohoo I love this free horsepower sh1t :) :) :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 11, 2004, 11:58:02 AM
Quote
13.9 @ 100MPH


....more than respectable...:D :D :D

...care to list exactly what you've done to the R33 to get this quarter time??

Yours with interest,
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R33vit on March 12, 2004, 12:26:37 AM
Tinduck.

I bought the car about a month ago after looking for over 6 months for one that had very little done to it.. Bought it with a air pod (no CAP) and a 3 inch exhaust which looks like it is made up in sections (welded at every bend):splat:

I have'nt got a CAP for the pod as yet (building it ATM) I built a boost controller from the AutoSpeed D.I.Y Web site and plumbed it in between the waste gate and the intake pipe (removed the original T piece) turned boost up to 10 psi and rear tyre's are 255 40 17's @ 20 P.S.I.. :D

Got a ton of wheel spin of the line as evident from my 60 footer but hey I had a ball.. (Im a virgin to drag racing) Hope I can keep it in the 13's from here on and get into the low 13's soon.

Catch ya soon:)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R33vit on March 12, 2004, 01:12:24 AM
Oh. the time slip :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: crshbndct on March 16, 2004, 10:32:06 AM
fast. cheap. reliable.  pick two.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 17, 2004, 01:18:37 AM
yaaaahhooooo
i made it to the end
hi guys i have a r32 which is a mod vergin
but ill besatarting on it real soon
one thaught . what if you removed the standard air box
and mounted the pod up high inside the iner gard
then you would not have to make up a cap all you would have to do is drill a hole with your hole sore
just a thaught
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R33vit on March 17, 2004, 09:36:33 PM
G`day Det

as long as you can keep the pod dry and away from the elements then it would be ok I guess..

I thought some1 in this forum had suggested that idea. Who knows, it took me so long to read it from go to wow I dont know if Im Arthur or Marthur  :homer:

Tinduck:
I feel I know you so well after this forum
The time I ran at Eastern Creek was with a 10 psi spike dropping to 7 psi. I stuffed up when I set the boost control up and was not boosting all the way through the rev range..
I will try again next week at the Creek and see if I can improve my times :D

Later dude
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 18, 2004, 01:26:55 AM
Quote
Originally posted by R33vit
G`day Det

as long as you can keep the pod dry and away from the elements then it would be ok I guess..

 


thats why i sugest keeping it up high as posible
and with all the inner gard linning shurly it would stay dry
ar you could always partition it in the inner gard (no engine heat in there )

would work much better with a front mount intercooler
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on March 18, 2004, 01:35:30 AM
Jesus this thread has been going on and on and on and.........
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on March 18, 2004, 01:36:36 AM
:bored2dea
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 18, 2004, 02:12:33 AM
wake
up!!!!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on March 18, 2004, 09:54:28 AM
:coffee  Huh...damn is that the time?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on March 18, 2004, 09:58:30 AM
You're up early...you wet the bed? :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: skyGTRline on March 18, 2004, 10:39:00 PM
Questions......

Does the R32 come stock with a rev limiter.... If so is it true about that #53 wire... all you need to do is cut the bitch???


Cheers:confused:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: cjsewell on March 18, 2004, 11:04:55 PM
That is a debated question. . . . .

Yes they do come with a rev limiter.

And yes for ME cutting wire 53 has worked without any problems.

But some have had problems after cutting it.

Just Do It :D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on March 18, 2004, 11:16:44 PM
CUT ALL THE WIRES :DEVIL:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 18, 2004, 11:38:46 PM
thats baaad Gerbal do behave
atleast leave the one for the interia light
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on March 18, 2004, 11:48:37 PM
Yea right...cutting wire #53 DOES remove speed cut btw..for the record (yet again)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Gerbal on March 18, 2004, 11:50:07 PM
But why not get ECU chipped? Takes care of everything. And chips be cheap enough these days with all the competition etc.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 19, 2004, 12:14:42 AM
yeh i dont think ill be cutting any wires
i might just wait till i get my after market ecu
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on March 19, 2004, 09:46:31 AM
Wire 53 is the speed signal, NOT the rev signal....
Cutting the wire removes the factory SPEED limit, NOT the rev limit.
Removing or moving a preset rev limit can be pretty dangerous if you've not modified the engine/fuelling to cope....not the kind of mod for this little thread...
Removing the speed limiter just makes the car go faster.:D
As long as the vehicle is in good condition, tyres, engine, injectors, (brakes?)...then you are not exceeding the design parameters of the car.
For example, go buy a big shiny R34GTR...and look at what it's capable of. The rev limiter is there to stop the engine going pop.
The speed limiter is there to stop you driving any faster. End of story.:) The stock engine is not designed to rev to 12000rpm, but the stock chassis IS designed to exceed 100mph.

......hope this clears things up??
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R33vit on March 21, 2004, 03:00:33 AM
Tinduck

I believe that wire 53 is also used for HICAS Diagnostics
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 25, 2004, 01:06:43 AM
http://home.kooee.com.au/celicamad%20boost%20control.htm  

check this out im not sure about some of his hors power figures
i think he might be telling a few porky pies:homer:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 25, 2004, 01:13:21 AM
oopps the last one didnt work try this onehome.kooee.com.au/celicamad/celicamad%20boost%20control.htm  (http://)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 25, 2004, 01:34:56 AM
ok try this one then and check out his boost controlhttp://home.kooee.com.au/celicamad/index.htm  (http://)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 25, 2004, 01:46:46 AM
aaaarrrh i give up
iv you whant go do a serch on yahoo on celicamad
he has an interesting boost control set up simelar
to the auto speed setup
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: cjsewell on March 25, 2004, 09:50:17 AM
Here you go:

Click here to go to link (http://home.kooee.com.au/celicamad/celicamad%20boost%20control.htm)

;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on March 25, 2004, 09:57:43 AM
hehehe...

"This system is intended for use on OFFROAD vehicles only .

increasing boost usually gives big performance results however certain risks are made when doing this .Too much boost or too faster boost response can cause detonation ,poor fuel economy and reduction in engine life ,Make any modification with the advice of an expert engine tuner

ABSOLUTLEY NO RESPONSIBILITY IS TAKEN FOR ENGINE DAMAGE"

Aka

Too much boost or too faster boost response makes things in the rear-view mirror disappear very quickly (either by acceleration, or critical turbo failure).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 26, 2004, 12:12:16 AM
thanx man how you do dat den
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: cjsewell on March 26, 2004, 01:07:02 AM
Type it out like the following

www.whatever.com[/i]]click here[*URL]

Just replace the * with a / and in all theory it should work . . . (http://[i)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 26, 2004, 01:43:57 AM
aaahhhh ok then
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R33vit on March 26, 2004, 07:18:30 PM
It's a very much like the Autospeed DIY boost controller.. Only about 5 x more expensive
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 27, 2004, 12:16:33 AM
yeh i think its a bit steep on the price
i think i might build my own
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R33vit on March 29, 2004, 10:20:24 PM
Yeah I built my own from the Autospeed website and it works a treat
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on March 30, 2004, 01:35:12 AM
the only thing i would be worryed about would be the extra stress on the turbs bringing the boost on to early but otherwise a dam good idea
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: andrewrr on April 06, 2004, 04:31:37 PM
Somewhat free, lots of horsepower.  here's what to do:

1.  Find nearest industrial area
2.  Look for metal scrapheaps
3.  Search through and "borrow" all 3inch tubing(you can find mandrels at most places)
4.  Take your tubes home and weld them into a rangi exhaust.

but seriously, it isn't that hard to make your own exhaust from turbo back for very cheap.  I just finished welding my system up this weekend, and it cost me about $200 for flanges, mandrels, resonator, gaskets, paint and all.  when i was at the Coby factory (where i bought the materials) their scrap bin was FULL of plenty of decent piping so i managed to grab quite a bit extra, and now have enough to do exhaust on friends ke30 rolla.  all u need is a bit of welding knowledge.  I'm going to use this method once i get a fmic, to do the piping.
to see pictures of what it looks like go to my cardomain  http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/569880
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on April 06, 2004, 11:11:16 PM
cool as mate keep up the good work
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: andrewrr on May 18, 2004, 09:38:24 PM
i don't know if this has already been mentioned, but a very cheap mod is to put in an oil catch can.  i mad mine 2 weeks ago out of PVC piping.  I got about a foot of drain tube, 2 end caps, and a 15mm diameter tube from Master Trade, cost me $7.  then got 1 meter of braided hose from bay engineers, cost me $5.  cut the big tube down to size, drilled two holes in it, cut the smaller tube into two pieces and put them in the holes, plastic welded it all shut with the endcaps, and then fitted all the hosing.  blocked off the other hoses with caps.  I can see that a little bit of oil is coming out of the breathers, and this would have otherwise been going to my intake, contaminating the air and lowering my octane level.  seems like a good mod for $12 and couple hours.  i mounted it right in front of the battery and drilled a hole in the top, and used a self-tapping screw going through the battery hold down.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 19, 2004, 08:21:41 AM
Keep it up dude....:king:

...you "can" also use a lightweight racing "empty plastic bottle" for this mod......well cheap, and if you fit it upside down, you've got a ready made oil drain valve on the bottom...:D

Keep 'em coming........;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: got_sounds? on June 21, 2004, 11:39:44 AM
does anyone have any new suggestions for free horsepower ? ..
how about lighten your skyline .. take out any unneccessary stuff .. i know this isnt always an option, but if you cant make more power, then make the power to weight ratio better by making it lighter :)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: andrewrr on June 21, 2004, 02:25:30 PM
that can also work to the effect of giving you more power, ie:  taking out the a/c;  taking out belt fan and installing electric fan;  installing dry-cell battery and better alternator.  

when is someone going to come on here and tell us how to use a paper cup and some #8 wire to give our car an extra 80kw at the wheels?  that's what i've been waiting for.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on June 21, 2004, 02:31:03 PM
Is using an electric fan better at cooling than the clutch fan? how doe they actually hook up, do they go off a temp sensor in the radiator, and is it based on the water temp exiting the engine or entering it? And can you have a fan controller so that it cuts in depending on what temp you set it at?

Cheers,
Andrew
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: got_sounds? on June 22, 2004, 10:56:00 AM
There are a few ways you can use an electric fan, you can have it on a switch on the dash that you turn on or off yourself, but the best way is to use a thermo fan switch. It automatically takes the temperature from a point of the cooling system and opens to turn the fan on when the cooling system gets to a certain temp.

There are a couple of ways, there is usually a point for screwing one into the top of the head, or into the thermostat housing, or there are others that will sense the temp through the fins in the radiator, or a probe that can be siliconed into the top hose of the radiator.

They all work just as well.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on June 22, 2004, 01:31:55 PM
well i have an aftermarket Water Temp sensor so maybe i could hook it up to that some how so that it reads the temps from that sensor.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: got_sounds? on June 23, 2004, 10:11:40 AM
the thermo fan switch you will need will be plumbed in totally differently from the water temp sensor you have now - its a very basic switch that senses the water temp, and closes the circuit allowing current to the fan. I dont know if this can be wired to the water temp sensor you have now .. could be worth a look, but quite possibly not worth the effort.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: det on June 25, 2004, 03:01:53 PM
hey we are back
Title: thermo fan
Post by: vk turbo on August 05, 2004, 03:26:14 AM
you can get thermo kits with seperate thermostate and go into the top radiator hose and you just set the temp and it goes from there thats what ive got on my commodore
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: fezza on August 05, 2004, 03:52:34 AM
yeah... the kit is either circuit open or closed where as the temp gauge has variable measurements. Sounds like it would be easier just to plumb in another sensor
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: HarryJay on August 05, 2004, 05:05:05 PM
When u cut wire #53 on a R32 - GTS-t, do u have to reset the ECU?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: shif_tea on August 05, 2004, 10:39:27 PM
Man this is crazy i started reading this thread 1.5hours later i skipped to the end. Its been going like 3 years. Good work TinDuck
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: shif_tea on August 05, 2004, 10:41:45 PM
oh yeah and i don't think you would have to harry, all it would be is a cutout feed. But i guess it couldn't hurt
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on August 06, 2004, 02:33:02 AM
nah u dont have to reset the ecu, its just a feed from the speed sensor to the ecu.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: vk turbo on August 06, 2004, 02:55:34 AM
when you cut the wire though dont you have to disconnect the battery so you dont stuff it glad i dont have to do that with my commodore just slip the engine in and get it going buy the way fellas two quick and easy ways to get more horses take the fan off and remove the filter completly im not sure exactly how much but on a poxy blue 202 its a quick power gain of 14kw and best off all it only take five minutes
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: vk turbo on August 06, 2004, 03:26:01 AM
here we go im back again as a cheap boost controller which is just set at two different amonts get a solenoid that is used on gas converted cars thats what allows the gas to flow or stop it now you run a tee piece that interupts the vaccum for the waste gate run the hose from there to the solenoid and then a small one for discharge run a switch that can be operated in the car and then you have what ever boost you want to go up to back down to the standard boost if you want to lower the boost put some thing in the discharge pie that just slows the flow of the air that passes through it till you get the disired boost thats what in running in my commodore and it does the trick just need more fuel and adjust plug doesnt like the boost atm especially when it hit 17 pound
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: HarryJay on August 08, 2004, 02:43:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by David Kemps
nah u dont have to reset the ecu, its just a feed from the speed sensor to the ecu.

Dave


Where abouts is the spees sensor located @ ? Is it on the gearbox or somewhere behind the speedo ?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on August 09, 2004, 01:17:17 AM
on the gearbox
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: phool on August 11, 2004, 12:40:11 AM
I have just spent three days reading this thread. don't let it die now I have finally got a skyline.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: NZ WILD GTT on August 16, 2004, 04:21:57 PM
any news on Cutting the wire that removes the factory SPEED limit
on an r34gtt  its bcomeing a problem now ?

cheers
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: phool on August 16, 2004, 04:24:53 PM
oh great, some one is here. but I'm sorry I don't know anything about R34. After reading this forum I know R32s & R33s you can cut wire 53 on the ecu and it doesn't affect anything (yet).
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: richyr32gtr on August 20, 2004, 02:32:27 AM
only things i can see wrong with cutting speed sensor (from R32 GTR Workshop Manual)
1) Used for fuel cut at 0kph
2) Idle control starts at vehicle speed under 8kph
all i can find right now.
i remember someone saying something about ECU maps extrapolating beyond the speed cutoff are a bit dodgy when it comes to formulating fuel mixtures. Doesn't sounds right because fuel mixtures are created from revs (and the rest), not speed..???
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on August 23, 2004, 04:46:39 PM
As a founding member of this thread, thought I'd just drop by and see if it still going.

...and sure enough! :)

All I can say is 'wow'.  I didn't know there was that much free horsepower to be had!  Horespower has become far from free now as we start pushing 300atw.

Rock on 'Freehorsepower'  I will never forget ye.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: 4Nick8 on August 23, 2004, 04:49:07 PM
Oh, and cut the bloody wire and stop yabbering about it.

I cut mine and my car has only exploded a few times, and all of them are not wire related.

And my plug in link doesn't care that the wires not their either.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: phool on August 23, 2004, 07:09:38 PM
I have wound up the boost on my skyline and now it cuts out at 6000 when flooring it. I am picking it is a fuel thing. I was told that from the factory the pump only gets around 7 volts so I checked and mine is getting 12. do you reckon an adjustable reg will sort it out.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on August 23, 2004, 07:15:48 PM
how much boost are u running?
hmm i thought fuel pump shud be getting 12 volts but cud be wrong.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: phool on August 23, 2004, 07:26:31 PM
I'm running 11 psi. This is all I have done to date. It still has the paper repco panel filter and cat convertor. I want to get it running pretty well but don't want to spend yet.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: David Kemps on August 23, 2004, 07:31:55 PM
there is no boost cut in r33's from ecu. it must be something else that is stopping it revving that high.

in my opinion theres not much point running higher than 10psi on stock car, get full 3" exhaust and CAI with pod filter and ull get much more power at lower boost.

is it running sweet in the rest of the rev range?
cud be coils stuffing up or sparkplugs not gapped right.

Dave
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bluntsmoker on August 24, 2004, 11:22:19 PM
yeah r33s got ecu boost (fuel) cut at around 15psi. but yeah like you say not much point running more than 10 -12 on stock.

 dont think your prob is boost cut though.

:mexican:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: phool on August 25, 2004, 11:05:19 AM
I just guessed that it is leaning out due to lack of fuel and the ecu is compensating (unsure how, retarding maybe). The first thing on my hit list of mods is removing the cat and replacing the exhaust rearward of it. I am then gonna buy a decent panel filter and keep the original air box.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bluntsmoker on September 30, 2004, 04:52:35 PM
correction

just learned that its not really the boost that causes the cut... its the AFM maxing out... so basically too much airflow will cause the air flow meter to reach its maximum voltage and subsequently cut the power to the fuel pump for safety.
Title: AFM
Post by: phool on September 30, 2004, 08:13:35 PM
Thanks man. Any ideas how to fix it, do I have to replace it with a larger one (300ZX TT maybe), and do you think I will need to mod the ECU or will I get away with just reseting the ECU. Thanks for your help man, I am a diesel mechanic and have only ever owned early cars. I understand what each component does but don't know how to diagnose or solve problems.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on October 01, 2004, 10:04:27 AM
Evening all......:D

Quote
I have wound up the boost on my skyline and now it cuts out at 6000 when flooring it

Hi Phool: a couple of questions:
1) Will the car rev over 6000 at standstill, ie: free revving?
2) Does it only die at full throttle when on the road?
3) Have you still got the factory 2-stage boost thingumy connected?

...the reason I ask is that ages ago, I found that winding the boost up to a steady 11psi under full load using certain bleed setups can cause a brief overboost on full throttle before settling down to 11psi. This "spike" occasionally caused the fuel cut to kick in for a moment, causing a miss at 6000ish that cleared by backing off a bit.
   This spike seems to be more pronounced the easier the turbo can spin up, so free-flowing filters and exhausts can make the problem worse...
   The problem can be solved easily though, depending on spending:D
Play around with different bleed/ restrictor setups (FREE)
Turn the boost down to 9 or 10 (FREE and BORING)
Fit a fuel cut defencer (CHEAP but be CAREFUL)
Fit a fuel computery boost controlling doodah (the best way, but not at all free)
   
The choice is yours......

Anyhoo, so it's technically a fuel cut triggered by max airflow not actually boost, but here's stoopid question #1304:
...Why cut the fuel not the ignition? Why does it not run very very lean and melt then?:D

Laters....
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bluntsmoker on October 01, 2004, 11:19:50 AM
yeah i have been wondering about that too and just praying that Nissan got it right!

To solve the fuel cut the best way and also most expensive is to get a bigger AFM. But because it will give out a different voltage for a set amount of air.... you need to do something to your computer. not sure exactly how but you will find plenty of info if you search the archives and the forums.

Hope that helps     :mexican:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: phool on October 01, 2004, 03:49:14 PM
Thanks guys. I am amazed the pioneer is still kicking around. The worlds best performance thread. Any way, I have disconnected the two stage boost thingy, Thats where I got the T for the bleed. I think I need to wind down the boost (also read whimp out) untill I have done a few other mods including pressure reg and ECU mods. Dont wanna damage the ole girl before its even made any power.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Baffa on October 12, 2004, 07:59:09 PM
ffs this is a long thread!!!! :) I forgot who wanted nos all those pages ago but have you seen the system that squirts straight into your filter? its plug and play!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: PlasticStan on October 23, 2004, 02:19:21 AM
The reason the fuel is cut is because this totally eliminates the chance of detonation. No fuel = no det.

If you just cut the ignition when the afm is maxed, there is a chance of detonation because of lean fuel mixtures.

Cheers, Simon.
:D
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: rings85 on October 24, 2004, 08:11:55 PM
wow... it has taken me about 2 days to get to the end of this... i am very impressed and indebted to you all.  Now all i need to do is get my hands on the R32 GTS25 i have been looking for and i can put some of this stuff into action!

GO THE FREE HORSEPOWER THREAD!

-Adam
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: vk turbo on December 16, 2004, 01:34:01 AM
i have just found out that the 300zx afm will be fine but dont run stock intercooler get a larger front mount to be able to cool the air more effectively and what psi does the boost cut come in cause i got the boost gauge needle maxing out and that is at 22psi thats where it stopped so i dont know if anymore went through it but it aint that quick when it has that through it compared to 8 psi also just wondering if anyone here knows wether or not a fuel cooler would add any hp thoughts on this would be great as im thinking i might but my fuel through an auto tranny fluid cooler
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bluntsmoker on December 16, 2004, 10:19:26 AM
that is not free horsepower related. stop spamming the forums
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: vk turbo on December 16, 2004, 11:42:02 AM
i know its not free horsepower but if you read previous things people have read there was an issue on it and anything that costs less than 200 bucks seems alot cheaper than the other options that are available and im not spamming the forums so piss off
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: gtstCruiser on December 16, 2004, 02:26:51 PM
i oute'd an cleaned my afm the other day and now it spits and farts if i put my foot right down.. dunno if i just KO'ed my afm or not.. but it dont feel right.. whats a on-its-way-out afm feel like? i think i'll take my tap off and run 10 till i get some cash for a new one..
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: vk turbo on December 16, 2004, 10:17:53 PM
if you touched the sensor inside it it will be stuffed
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: gtstCruiser on December 17, 2004, 01:54:24 PM
nope i used one of those spray extension things that looks like a lollypop stick and sprayed the crap out of it with Contact cleaner and left it for an hour to dry up

put it back in and now it farts if i floor it :s
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: vk turbo on December 17, 2004, 11:47:31 PM
have u tryed reseting your comp and did you do it with the battery still connected cause if you did that might be all it needed and why did you clean it out in the first place
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: NIZMAD on December 18, 2004, 06:22:07 PM
Hmm thats exactly what i did to mine when it was playing up and it fixed it! i'd try squirting it out again from all directions to make sure you didnt wash everything to a particularly sensitive area,
good ol CO cleaner =D

not exactly a free horsepower kinda post tho dude.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: NIZMAD on December 18, 2004, 06:25:22 PM
oh to answer the "why did you need to clean it in the first place" question, all matter of fine particles colect in the afm sensor with the od spot of filter oil just to hold it there, you would be surprised even with the best filters how much makes it thru.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: vk turbo on December 21, 2004, 03:02:57 AM
what does it do when it starts to get dirty cause i know when mine is idling i can hear the slightest miss or something in the exaust note like it splutters or something anyone know what that could be
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: gtstCruiser on December 21, 2004, 12:02:52 PM
i pulled out my afm before i cleaned it.. and yea i cleaned it because when i bought my pod i noticed a nice blanket of 5cm worth of black grime and dust.. im thinkin its never been cleaned before since the orange sensor was then black before i sprayed it.. im just gonna buy another afm when i get enough money :(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: madzilla on December 22, 2004, 12:57:34 PM
hello every1 dis site iz awesome and i have 1 question to repeat, how do i fool my waste gate into receiving low boost?  i have a bleed type controller
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bluntsmoker on December 22, 2004, 01:16:35 PM
basically you need to use it to bleed off some of the pressure that the wastegate actuator receives.

I have a very simple set up on mine and it works perfectly.

I just put a T in the boost source for the wastgate actuator, with a hose running form the T to the bleed valve (which i found at Bay Engineering for $14)

Make sure you get a boost guage before you start tweaking. You shouldnt reallg go over 11 - 12psi on your standard turbo if you want it to last.

However whein i got my car it ran an unrestricted 15 -16psi which was fun  :jack:     Now back at a healthy 10psi

:mexican:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: madzilla on December 22, 2004, 01:23:51 PM
hey blunt do u stil hav the boost solinoid hookd up?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: vk turbo on December 23, 2004, 02:42:01 AM
the solenoid that you used could you activate it in the car or did you have to adjust it under hood cause my one is activated on a switch in the car
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bluntsmoker on December 23, 2004, 10:30:16 AM
Madzilla -   Na the car came without the factory solenoid and was running unrestricted!

vk - its just under the bonnet now coz I find it works better with less piping, and i dont see the point if i dont want to adjust the boost all the time.    Having said that tho, Ill be buying an electronic unit of some sort in January

:mexican:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: peter321 on January 12, 2005, 08:15:40 PM
To get better power to weight ratio, the cheapest way is always reduce weight, anything not help you go faster, take it out, take the spare wheel and jack out, replace with a tyre puncture repair can.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: madzilla on January 27, 2005, 11:23:58 PM
is there such thing as building up ur boost? if so how? i hav an auto r33.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: boosting on February 10, 2005, 01:20:12 PM
i heard 15 max 4 r32 turbos but they can take a beating a m8 had his free boostin an it hit 30 blew his intercooler piping off now his turbo screams like a pig
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: zique on February 17, 2005, 01:45:35 PM
how do you mean by "free boosting" boosting?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: andrewrr on February 17, 2005, 06:08:45 PM
no wastegate!!!! :nuke:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Lobster on February 22, 2005, 09:54:01 PM
gtstCruiser: check ur afm sensor for damage (little wire inside). if its broken then your afm is f*cked, if its got crap on it, clean it with some electrical cleaner. then, if its burnt, then its probobaly f*cked.

all it takes is something small to get stuck on it and it will burn. that little wire gets pretty dam hot. thats why it has a mesh on the end of it, dont remove it...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: boosting on March 10, 2005, 08:22:16 PM
Quote
Originally posted by zique
how do you mean by "free boosting" boosting?

thats a secret
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: RB20DETdude on March 28, 2005, 06:23:53 PM
UNFAMILIA DONT NO WAT THE HELL UR DOIN I CAN SPEED CUT MY GTS4 A DOZEN TIMES A DAY ON DA WAY TO WORK ITS ALL RELATIVLY EASY EVEN IN MY STANDARD CAR
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: vk turbo on April 07, 2005, 10:06:34 PM
to stop ya afm from getting screwed i reckon piss it off altogether and put in a after market computer
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: zique on April 14, 2005, 11:21:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by boosting
thats a secret


aww com'on..be nice..do tell:(
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: PlasticStan on April 14, 2005, 11:49:54 PM
Has anyone tried altering the adjustment screw on the side of the afm?

Would making the reading a bit lower fool the ecu into staying out of the area of ignition and fuel maps, where it retards the ignition and richens the fuel, when you're running higher boost?

A bit like an safc but you could only change the afm value over the entire rev range, and not at specific points.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: icydude on May 04, 2005, 02:07:49 PM
im goign to gut my cat on my 1990 gtr.

the cat will be put back in but will be empty.

what am i to do with the temperature sensor?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: SR beast on May 04, 2005, 11:46:38 PM
I'll boost my r33 gt-r v-spec to around 20 psi after dayz for the drag over here :D

the car has full exhaust,pods,arc intercooler, std everything else..

Would 20 psi be ok..for awhile on high octane fuel  ?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 05, 2005, 09:59:57 AM
Quote
im goign to gut my cat on my 1990 gtr.


.....either leave the sensor in the gutted cat, or just tie it up out of the way.....
....I might be wrong, but I think all it does is warn you if the cat is in danger of overheating....and lights the management light....nothing to worry about if theres no cat there to overheat??

....or does it detect if the exhaust gas is over rich in fuel? I can't remember lol....

......either way, is it safe to just leave it there???

Take care all,
JonB
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bluntsmoker on May 05, 2005, 08:29:48 PM
You need to earth the wire.

 I would say 20psi would f.uck your standard turbos
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: icydude on May 06, 2005, 04:02:22 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TINDUCK RACING
.....either leave the sensor in the gutted cat, or just tie it up out of the way.....
....I might be wrong, but I think all it does is warn you if the cat is in danger of overheating....and lights the management light....nothing to worry about if theres no cat there to overheat??

....or does it detect if the exhaust gas is over rich in fuel? I can't remember lol....

......either way, is it safe to just leave it there???

Take care all,
JonB


worked fine.plugged the hole with a nut and tied the sensor to the heat sheilding.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: nizmoracing on May 30, 2005, 06:12:21 PM
sorry to be a hassel guys, but theres 54 pages to look thru to find the info i really want and need by tonight,

i have a hks foam pod, but im going to get a new pod,
what brand would you recommend, i have seeen alot of people using the hks but i duno, whats best

cheers
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: zique on May 30, 2005, 10:22:10 PM
do a search on it but I heard the Apexi one is really good..
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: R34MAN on July 07, 2005, 10:16:05 PM
Is there any good modifications that you can apply to a 2.5 neo engine to get good horsepower increases???
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: zique on August 18, 2005, 08:52:24 PM
you can do a search for that R43MAn but getting a 2inch-2.25inch exhaust and pod filter..with a cold air box do some good...Port and polish?
Or even turbo it..lol.


http://www.skylinesdownunder.com/forums//showthread.php?s=&threadid=44659&highlight=gts25
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: chubz on August 21, 2005, 09:01:14 PM
OMG!! long ass thread... i need a laptop so i can take it to the toilet, ah yes the place where everyone likes to read. im gonna have to start from scratch here. oh and thats one mean cold air box tinduck! its just made my to do list
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: mofo on January 19, 2006, 11:15:19 AM
just too add - ceramics are only really good for around 12 psi - mine blew running at 13psi
Title: Ceramic Turbo Boost Levels
Post by: DEVEUS on January 19, 2006, 11:43:24 AM
Nissan ceramic turbo's will boost up to about 16-18 psi max before the exhaust wheel over revs and comes apart.  If the turbo ceramic exhaust wheel comes off at boost levels lower than this then that turbo has had a hard life and is highly worn out.  There is no way the wheel shoud detach below these levels.  I personally have run 16 psi on a std turbo having done 240,000 km's and never had a problem!  Std GTR Turbos will go to these levels at least and they have ceramic wheels as well!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DannyKibzR33GTsT on January 22, 2006, 04:54:28 PM
common now, any owner of even a near stock skyline gtst should know that 180km/hr comes on in a fair hurry considering :) . To try and help the original post by JonB here goes. :karate: Sorry its long just trying to help out

Exhaust is a must, a nice Jap-Spec 3inch system with HFlw cat and dump pipe will bring another 20kw to the party with around an hours work. Essential for any other stuff as well. Its your first step to increased cheap power on a factory skewie. WHen i first purchased my car it was fitted with a momo 3inch system (dump pipe all the way back) and other than that sweet *@#$ all else. It smashed 180km/hr no probs at all, with the spped limiter removed we cranked her all the way to 230km/hr on a 3k stretch.

My experiance with bleed valves and skylines are all pretty much negative. Like >>> i found that even installed with the bleed valve running back to the actuator, boost increase was very very small, spike was hard to control even after trying several different restrictors. Most importantly the power of the car (esspecially under spool) was decreased noticably.

Air pod filters are great budget upgrades for any car, skylines in particular because the airflow meter reads directly behind the air box mount. Fitting a nice high flow, smooth flowing pod filter means more airflow, at a smoother rate giving a better read accross the airflow meter. Power increases may not be overly noticable, but fuel efficiency and engine response are increased quite nicely (especially after factory ecu reset to take advantage of higher flow). Also quality pods have an unbvelievable induction roar that bring a smile to my face every time (i run a Blitz type LM it sounds like a jet turbine sucking under heavy spool)  

Regards to factory turbo durability?, there is no durability really over 12psi or so according to everyone i have ever met. SOme get lucky but most dont. A cheap option is a high flow rebuild, as little as $1200 if you shop round and do fitting yourself.

Call me old fassioned but i think actuating the boost should be left the professionals. I have just got my car back from Advan, the Trust Solenoid Type S boost controller they have installed in conjuction with other mods is putting out a dyno proven 247rwkw at only 14psi. Its safe, reliable and feels very strong. Money well spent in my opinion.

Hope some of this dribble helps out ;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: bigsi on March 01, 2006, 12:41:42 PM
Quote from: MarioGTR
Your from Stoke on Trent?  As in near Newcastle (the smaller one)?  Near Stone?  In the UK?

Otherwise known as the arse end of the universe?

I used to work there.  What a dreadful place - I did a 9 month tour of duty and I still have nightmares about people in red football jerseys...

Mario.

hey... i livbe in sunderland, (the red shirts) right next to newcastle. easy on the insults eh.
Title: mrgtrking
Post by: tekin on April 12, 2006, 12:12:36 AM
hey guys great thread and good info. To tinduct racing great points of discussion. The real answers to your power being delivered cheaply lie
in the hands of some jap. tuners who have been working on turbos and comp.
maps. ie. i have heard of a tuning house in japan who have 1000 or more maps in there software packages for there clients ,depending on their needs.
Anyway regardless ,trying to pick up cheap kw's can have long term probs for you and the engine. The truth is that if you want power you need to
set a goal and come close to it. If you want to reset your goal after this then you basically have to start from the beginning.(costly decision because what you have done needs to be scrapped and new plans drawn).
OK intake , boost and exhaust can help ur power gain , it also makes a bigger
turbo lag, and can get u into some epa trouble. Look at a 911 turbo its quite,has ass kicking power delivery and makes us all look pretty silly in our cars. OK the thing costs 350,000 aus. dollars but its the package u must look at when building a performance car .Anyway hope i havent bored u all to much.(SEE YOU ON THE DARK SIDE)
Title: Mr.GTR KING
Post by: tekin on April 13, 2006, 01:58:33 AM
to tinduct great thread. the answer to your question on free horsepower
cheaply without risk. Turn up boost to 11psi , remove air box (do not fit anything) put some chicken wire over the inlet , then gut out your catylic converter and muffler.(this is for a standard factory exhaust)This would have cost nothing so far. See you all on the dark side.
Title: how to sort out your waste gate prob
Post by: neverhappy on April 25, 2006, 07:30:23 PM
Quote from: Arven
:idea:

So has anyone got any more information about the whole wastegate actuator rod fix? by bending the rod you simply
change when the wastegate will become full open, and more Boost? i have heard roumours about this, and it sounds good! i will try it once i get my boost guage this weekend.

**Crosses fingers**

ok i had my car back from  a turbo rebuild and it was slow to come on boost and didnt have as much as it used to .i firstly took off the heat shields and then it was all odvious.carfully pop the c clip off and then take off the astuator arm off the waste gate and then see if it was fully closed by pushing it fully toward the front of the car.if it moves that way at all no it wasnt sealing so bend the rod fron the actuator untill u have to slightly pull it so u can get it cack on to its waste gate arm.hold the covers back in place try and make sure your bend was not so severe and is not hitting on anything.well good luck and even a very very slight opening will let a lot of boost out but if u follow what i say and your wastgate is all ok inside u will have a fix
Title: $2.50nzd mod
Post by: DilutedReality on May 23, 2006, 08:29:48 AM
heres a almost free mod with a few benifits. raise the bonnet by the hinges...
what i have done on my 33 is brought oversize bolts for the bonnet hinges (you want ones about 4cm longer than stock) and cut up 4 small pieces of garden hose about 4-5cm. its also a good idea to get a friend to help with this.

remove the bolts one side at a time and replace with oversized ones putting the length of hose between the hinge and the bonnet with the bolt going through the hose. tighten the bolt so that the hose is well compressed and it is at a height that suits your preference (mine is about 2cm higher at the hinge than original.

what it does???
i found engine noise increased gotta love the straight six sound!
it also allows air to escape more freely from under the bonnet and allowing more heat to get out, therefore cooler engine bay better operating temps
and also i found it changed the aerodynamics a little (not sure if it to an advantage but it makes the water roll of my windscreen! i have better vision in the wet WITHOUT windscreen wipers)

Downside...
if your ever in a frontal crash..... better duck pretty quick as the bonnet will not be stopped by the base of windscreen BUT heres hoping that the oversized bolts are strong enough not to snap and allow the bonnet to enter the cabin

people tend to ask frequently what happened to my bonnet beacuse it doesnt look flush (IMHO it looks better and closes the gap at front of bonnet)
Title: nope
Post by: That Harry Connick Jr Guy on May 23, 2006, 08:57:18 AM
Actually the bonnets are designed to fold in the middle. Open your bonet and look at the middle, note the grooves through the stiffners across the width of the vehicle, now imagine what they are for. Ok well imagine harder, a little harder! Ok thats it! See all clear now! Bonet will fold well before it comes through the cabin.


Quote from: DilutedReality
Downside...
if your ever in a frontal crash..... better duck pretty quick as the bonnet will not be stopped by the base of windscreen BUT heres hoping that the oversized bolts are strong enough not to snap and allow the bonnet to enter the cabin

people tend to ask frequently what happened to my bonnet beacuse it doesnt look flush (IMHO it looks better and closes the gap at front of bonnet)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: DilutedReality on May 23, 2006, 02:01:35 PM
oh minta, good point!! guess i dont have to worry about my ducking practise anymore
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Wowcar on June 02, 2006, 09:29:46 AM
Jesus H christ, is this thread still alive ? I remember it starting when I lived in Pukekohe, and that was four years ago!!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: tekin on June 15, 2006, 09:44:17 PM
HELLO...
Why not remove the f..ken thing all together(Bonnet)
And while u r at it turf back seat, front passenger seat,spare tyre.
Remove front and back bumpers, all the doors, stereo and aircon can go..
Remove all other trim you  no longer required including the dash.
This will lighten your car...then u will get all that noise in your face...
And u will go faster to..
PMSL
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: tekin on June 15, 2006, 09:46:05 PM
The above mods would have made u money on ebay.
So it still has great significants to this thread..
Made money and made your car go faster...
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: erks on October 09, 2006, 01:49:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arven
 
"So has anyone got any more information about the whole wastegate actuator rod fix? by bending the rod you simply
change when the wastegate will become full open, and more Boost? i have heard roumours about this, and it sounds good! i will try it once i get my boost guage this weekend "

G-day felles, can you do this mod on a 32 GTR? How would it work as to my knowledge there are 2 wastegates? ls there another way to raise the boost slightly above 1 bar after you have removed the factory olive (restricter)?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Peter on April 26, 2007, 12:22:39 AM
Hey Tinduck Racing are you still around? How is your Skyline going, and what did you end up doing to it after generating all this discussion?

If you are around I have one question for you, or for anyone else who can provide an answer....somewhere in the middle of the massive posting there was discussion about a grey plug, near the fuse panel on the driver's side, with two wires coming out, Now it was said that if you short these two wires the check engine light comes on and the ECU goes into diagnostic mode. What interests me though is that it is also said that this resets the ECU. I have been resetting the ECU by disconnecting the battery for a while now, and if I can reset it by shorting these two, I'll install a switch as some of these people in this posting have as well?

I apologise if this has already been talked about on other threads already, but after reading so much of this one, I don’t think I can read anymore at the moment!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on April 26, 2007, 11:45:53 AM
Hi Peter,
The old rusty Datsun is still going strong, thanks for asking!

We're still together after nearly seven years, about 178k on the clock and still getting quicker! (probably due to bits falling off....)

Currently (and for the last five years) running 12psi courtesy of a Free Horspower bleed/restrictor setup with standard ceramic turbo and injectors....running slightly lean at WOT in 2nd but nothing gone POP yet!

Non free mods to date are:
Trust downpipe
Decat
HKS Hiper Muffler
Big pod airfilter
100mm core XSpower FMIC
Bailey Motorsport twin piston BOV
HKS fuel cut defencer
Air/Fuel ratio meter
Dual boost gauges
GTR wing/ skirts/ rear spats
JUN front bumper
GTR 17" rims
Adjustable coilovers

.........oops I spent a few dollars....mostly cheap/used parts :)

Oh, to answer your main question, grey plug, tucked up by drivers footwell fusebox.....has several wires going to one end and only two to the other. Bridging these two wires with a paperclip or fitting a switch whilst ignition is on but engine not running, will flash the diag. code on the check light and also reset the ECU. Handy if you are changing grades of fuel or have fitted another mod. The reset ECU will of course advance the ignition, and hence increase power, until the knock sensors back it off, so it makes sense to reset the ECU after every mod or octane change.

Hope this helps, good to see some honest good guys still over there!!
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Peter on April 28, 2007, 01:20:37 AM
Wow, quick reply! :)  Apologies for my slowish reply, as I have been really busy at work and haven’t had a chance to have any “free-time” on the internet. :battle:

12psi reliably on a standard turbo for five years – that’s great! :)  It has given me confidence now, as I am going to “bleed” my boost up to 10psi, once I finally install a FMIC and pod filter. :rolleyes:

Impressive list of mods as well, are you still running the standard ECU with all this on your car?

Thanks for the advice regarding the grey plug – I’ll give it a go and install a switch once I get a chance to work on my car again. The car is tucked away under a cover at the moment and having a rest. It has been my daily driver since 2002, but since my wife bought a Honda Civic November last year (which I have commandeered as my daily driver :laugh: ) the Skyline has taken a well earned rest, and now can be worked on over several weekends, rather than being frantically put back together to go to work with on Mondays! :splat:

BTW - What do you mean by “good to see some honest good guys still over there!!”? We’re all good over here, mate! :laugh:
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: TINDUCK RACING on May 05, 2007, 09:47:07 AM
Hi Peter,

12psi has been fine, but remember this is my daily commuter/ shopping cart.....I don't think for a minute that 12psi would last very long on the track, for instance... :)

ECU is indeed still standard,

Take care all you good guys ;)
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: el mamito usmc on October 28, 2007, 03:27:44 PM
well from the first 15 pages i could get this info out
 cut the #53 wire to remove the speed limiter
    gap the sparks to .80mm to run better and in dry air(like here  in New Mexico,US)
     Why instead of putting a selenoid or restrictor to boost up just buy a good boost controler and end of prob.

      if any one remember any other good and reliable ideas from this thread please post the resume here , thanks
Title: wire 53
Post by: MiNt_R33 on November 22, 2008, 12:21:54 AM
does anyone have a photo of where the ecu is so i can cut wire 53?
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: madzilla on November 22, 2008, 11:30:34 PM
hi, its on the front passenger side floor, left side of floor u can unscrew left wall plastic, ecu behind it, hope that helps as i have hooked up a switch to wire 53# to turn it on and off.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: madzilla on November 22, 2008, 11:32:21 PM
on ecu it has a big plug and u have to unscrew the screw before you can pull that white/clear looking plug out.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: Cyrus on September 11, 2010, 04:21:02 PM
Is there any differance between a auto an manual ecu??
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: westybob on September 11, 2010, 06:24:49 PM
They are basically the same but programmed differently. Auto will pull timing and fuel during changes. Some Nissans have auto ecu inside main ecu some have it in a seperate box.
Title: Free Horsepower...
Post by: gtsr on September 11, 2010, 10:47:04 PM
On Skyline, auto and manual engine ECU's both have 2x tables for pulling ignition timing during gear changes, just the settings on those tables are different on manual and auto ECU's. Also auto engine ECU has the external wiring that communicates with ECU for transmission.