Skylines Downunder NZ Car Club

General Automotive => Powered by Skyline => Topic started by: d_style on January 05, 2005, 09:50:59 PM

Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: d_style on January 05, 2005, 09:50:59 PM
I was recently involved in an accident (mostly not my fault) which has ended up basically wiritng my skyline off. I was wondering wat is involved in puting my engine and trans into an s13 with hubs and diff too.??? I know i need the skyline crossmember but does everything basically bolt up?
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: cwald240sx on January 06, 2005, 03:54:38 PM
The skyline crossmember is the wrong way to go.  It sets the engine too high and forward.  And the tranny bracket will only bolt with two holes.  Get a set of S13--RB20DET conversion mounts.  The engine will sit lower and in the correct position  for the tranny to line up with the shifter hole and the S13 driveshaft will then slip right in.  The GTS-T intercooler piping will all fall right into place once you cut the hole in the fender (if not already there)  After that its a fairly simple wire job... 4 or 5 in the engine bay and 9 or 10 in the kick panel at the ECU.  Remove the clutch fan and strap on a couple of electrics and you are ready to go.  And go it will.  Mine ran a 13.73 @104 (2.6 60ft :o ) on 1bar and a pod and 80mm exhaust.  Spinning all the way to 3rd.

If you go the crossmember route.  You will have to cut the bracing from under the hood/bonnet and probably make a driveshaft.  Also the electric fans will have to go on the fron of the radiator.

Is a VERY simple conversion.  Well worth it!!!
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: GT-R Ben on January 06, 2005, 04:29:34 PM
See with those engine mounts your GTS-T sump must get pretty close to the steering rack as there is physically no more room with the SR-RB cross member, except the actual mounting position is in a different place. You could possibly go down 10mm or so which would help clear the bonnet.

I have measured it up with a SR and RB crossmember and I think using an RB cross member and then modding it slightly to lower the engine would be the cheapest method. If you go down enough you can possibly go back also as mentioned. But I think modding the RB engine mounts would be less work than making new ones to fit the SR cross member.. as they are very different in position. 4cyl-6cyl.

I am going far more extreme at the moment, and actually considering lowering the complete from crossmember.. as well as a few other things to fit my motor.. :/
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: d_style on January 06, 2005, 05:27:41 PM
these rb20det  - s13 engine mounts, can u already buy them pre made? If so where and how much? I'll have the whole vehicle as a donor so how much $$ will i have to spend after that to get  the engine in and car going?
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: cwald240sx on January 07, 2005, 02:28:54 AM
Mckinney motors in the US has them but are WAY too expensive...  they are on crack!  There is also a guy that sells them on ebay (search RB20DET with desciptions checked).  He sells his for about $250 US with a tranny mount as well.  We had to slightly massage the front of the sump as it was rubbing the sway bar.  Not much at all though.

After that the install is free, except fluids.  You should have everything else.  I spent about $1000US, but I added an expensive BOV and a front mount and pretty bits.
Title: rb20det in s13
Post by: s14-240 on January 07, 2005, 06:30:55 AM
well, the rb20 in my s14 was really easy, and I used the r32 x member. I made motor mounts that lowered the motor and moved it back the desired length. Everything cleared perfectly, and I mean perfect. the stock driveshaft fit great, only problem was the tranny mount. I just made one of those too. All the mounts were really simple to design, and cost about $20 for everything. You wouldn't even need a welder. PM me if you like and i'll give you the deminsions to the mounts. Oh, and yes the swap is well worth it, mine hauls ass with only a front mount, pod filter, and exhaust. I beat an s13(lighter car) with an rb25(bigger motor) and a small t3 upgrade(z31 maybe? anyway, bigger and on a little more boost) by a little bit. granted he wasn't the greatest driver, but he ran a 13.5 at our crappy track, so that's like a 13.2 for my car anywhere else. all hail the rb20!!!! definitely do it.
Walter
Title: Re: rb20det in s13
Post by: GT-R Ben on January 07, 2005, 11:24:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by s14-240
well, the rb20 in my s14 was really easy, and I used the r32 x member. I made motor mounts that lowered the motor and moved it back the desired length. Everything cleared perfectly, and I mean perfect. the stock driveshaft fit great, only problem was the tranny mount. I just made one of those too. All the mounts were really simple to design, and cost about $20 for everything. You wouldn't even need a welder. PM me if you like and i'll give you the deminsions to the mounts. Oh, and yes the swap is well worth it, mine hauls ass with only a front mount, pod filter, and exhaust. I beat an s13(lighter car) with an rb25(bigger motor) and a small t3 upgrade(z31 maybe? anyway, bigger and on a little more boost) by a little bit. granted he wasn't the greatest driver, but he ran a 13.5 at our crappy track, so that's like a 13.2 for my car anywhere else. all hail the rb20!!!! definitely do it.
Walter


I would be intereted in the design of the mounts to drop and move the engine back.

Did you do it by trial and error or work out the angles etc before making the mounts?
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: s14-240 on January 12, 2005, 05:33:03 PM
I worked out the angles first, made a few small assumptions, and they came out fine. I'm working on a description right now, it is hard to do without pics so its taking me a little while. PM me your email if you want the info, or I may just post it.
Walter
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: GTR Shop on January 13, 2005, 12:35:50 AM
You can use std RB X-Member and still run elec puller fans with no probs.
Most guys in the US use a mount kit due to turbo vs steering colum (sp?) issues
Trim the bonnet frame 100mm or $250us for mounts.... easy decision in my mind... ;)
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: s14-240 on January 13, 2005, 03:21:34 AM
Or I'll give you the measurements and you won't hit anything, even the hood. You will not have to trim anything. I have two fal elec 10'' fans, they clear fine, and the steering rack is avoided. No need for a mount kit. Do not buy a mount kit. NEVER, well, maybe not never, but certainly not for this project. And you will still use the stock(rb) xmember, not the sr one.
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: GT-R Ben on January 13, 2005, 09:41:41 AM
Well I have decided it's not going to help me much anyway.. I can only go down 10-15mm.. and I need 40mm or so.
Will just have to do the bonnet.. going to be interesting.

I have started modding a GTR box to use in 2WD also.
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: s14-240 on January 13, 2005, 11:32:43 AM
Why do you need the motor lowered so much? What car are you doing it in? The only way a motor could be that tall is if you had a different oil sump and it was an rb30 or something?? What car is it going in, s13??
Walter
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: smokey hayes on January 13, 2005, 12:06:50 PM
Walter look at Ben's signature dude!
d_style: most of the parts bolt up but you need different front hubs if you want 5stud
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: GT-R Ben on January 13, 2005, 01:44:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by s14-240
Why do you need the motor lowered so much? What car are you doing it in? The only way a motor could be that tall is if you had a different oil sump and it was an rb30 or something?? What car is it going in, s13??
Walter


:laugh:

RB30DET in S13.

Lowered 10mm and a mad bonnet, should do it just fine..
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: s14-240 on January 13, 2005, 05:07:00 PM
Uh yeah about the profile:D maybe I could have checked that first.....
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: Viktro on January 13, 2005, 06:46:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GT-R Ben
:laugh:

RB30DET in S13.

Lowered 10mm and a mad bonnet, should do it just fine..


Bonnets are overrated ;). Gotta see your S13 sometime Ben, sounds like it's coming along alright :).
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: drift_and_slide on January 15, 2005, 03:40:31 PM
wouldnt a laurel x member fit? or cefiro? considering they are based on a silvia chassis and have RBs in them
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: Robert on January 15, 2005, 08:20:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by drift_and_slide
wouldnt a laurel x member fit? or cefiro? considering they are based on a silvia chassis and have RBs in them


They're the same as a Skyline ones.
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: rudeboy on March 07, 2005, 03:35:28 AM
i run an rb20det in my s13. i used all the stock r32 equipment. everything bolted up fine. i added spacers to the hinges on my hood(bonnet) and it shuts. the shifter is a little closer to the radio. the motor does sit a little high and forward. but i'm used to it now. the sr/ka driveshaft will slide right in. just have to swap out the RB speedo cable to the sr/ka electric speedo sensor
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: GT-R Ben on March 08, 2005, 02:25:33 PM
Reinstalled my engine in the weekend.

With the engine lowered and the reinforcing removed from the bonnet, it almost closes with the RB30 :)

Only going to need a slight lump.
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: Robert on March 08, 2005, 02:35:16 PM
Sounds good Ben.  What method did you use to lower your engine?

I really want to get mine going in time for the 4 and rotors but I'm not sure if there's enough time to get it done and all certed etc.
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: hybrids14 on April 08, 2005, 09:50:49 AM
Hello GT-R Ben, what's the mods necessary to make the RB26 box fit the Silvia Chassis?  I have a S14 and I assume I still have to make a custom driveshaft, or do I?
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: cwald240sx on April 08, 2005, 11:10:37 AM
Your going to have to fabricate an entire front suspension if you want to make it AWD.  Otherwise just use a 25 tranny.
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: GT-R Ben on April 08, 2005, 12:36:29 PM
We were not talking AWD/4WD Cwald.

I have removed the chain and gears from the transfer case, had a plate welded onto the side.

In the S13 tunnel i needed to make some more room around the starter motor lump, and a small bit down the side. Apart from that if fits great.

I had to have the engine tilded back as far as possible and having the engine lowered 15mm helps. All it took was the heater hoses to be in the way and I couldn't tilt the motor back far enough to get the box on..

I will take some photo's.

I would have just used a 25T box.. but I had a spare RB26 box and it already had a busted transfer case. :) So it's better than spending $2000 right?
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: cwald240sx on April 08, 2005, 03:24:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GT-R Ben
We were not talking AWD/4WD Cwald.

I would have just used a 25T box.. but I had a spare RB26 box and it already had a busted transfer case. :) So it's better than spending $2000 right?


Prolly so:D
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: hybrids14 on April 08, 2005, 04:18:39 PM
Thanks for the quick reply.  

The reason why I asked is because most people here in the U.S. have to purchase the GTR motor/tranny/harness/ecu combination and would require extra $ to purchase a RB25det box (which prices have gone up a lot and is getting harder to find)

Photos would really help, thanks Ben :)

1. On the RB25det/S14 swap, we needed custom driveshafts.  I'm wondering if you used custom driveshaft or ?

2. Can the Z32, GTR rear subframe bolt on to the S14? We in the U.S. is suffering from having to custom make axles since the stock S13/S14 axles break.  The Z32, GTR rear subframe(diff, axles, etc) is really cheap to obtain, and would handle the torque well.
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: cwald240sx on April 09, 2005, 12:50:31 AM
In our RB25 S14 we had to make a custom drive shaft because the S14 R200 diff takes a smaller yoke end than the RB25 tranny.  The S14 and Z32 non-turbo use the same diff but different subframes.  We also have a Z32 with about 550hp.  It started life as a non turbo car, so it has the smaller R200 diff.  We elected to keep it until it broke because of the better (for us) gear ratio.   That car has a OS Giken twin plate clutch and MT slicks.  It runs 1.65-1.69 60ft times and we have had no problems out of the smaller R200 diff.  They are bulletproof.
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: hybrids14 on April 09, 2005, 01:28:50 AM
1. On the RB25det/S14 swap, we needed custom driveshafts. I'm wondering if you used custom driveshaft or ? The reason why I asked this question is because he's using the GTR diff, which means it's the same size yoke...

2. Can the Z32, GTR rear subframe bolt on to the S14? We in the U.S. is suffering from having to custom make axles since the stock S13/S14 axles break. The Z32, GTR rear subframe(diff, axles, etc) is really cheap to obtain, and would handle the torque well. What I'm referring to is the Z32 turbo, GTR subframe does it bolt right up(minus the rear hand brake mod) and it's the axles that break, not the R200 diff....
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: cwald240sx on April 09, 2005, 03:42:40 AM
Ahh!  gotcha on the axles.  I think the Z32 and GT-R have a wider track than the S14.  Not sure on that, so I'm going to leave this one alone and let someone else answer.  Bolting that R230 diff into an S14 subframe is going to be interesting if subframes wont swap.
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: hybrids14 on April 09, 2005, 06:40:50 AM
Hrhr, that's why I'm asking GT-R Ben since he has the GTR diff..
^^

Yeah, the wider track is perfect for my widebody conversion.  I know a guy that does make a kit for the installation of the R230 diff into a E36 BMW, but I'm not quite sure what setup he's running on the S14.  But I do know that he has the R230 diff and GTR axles.  Can't find him now... so the questions remain....

1. On the RB25det/S14 swap, we needed custom driveshafts. I'm wondering if you used custom driveshaft or ? The reason why I asked this question is because he's using the GTR diff, which means it's the same size yoke...

2. Can the Z32, GTR rear subframe bolt on to the S14? We in the U.S. is suffering from having to custom make axles since the stock S13/S14 axles break. The Z32, GTR rear subframe(diff, axles, etc) is really cheap to obtain, and would handle the torque well. What I'm referring to is the Z32 turbo, GTR subframe does it bolt right up(minus the rear hand brake mod) and it's the axles that break, not the R200 diff....
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: cwald240sx on April 09, 2005, 09:07:19 AM
Keep in mind with the wider track on the GT-R/ Z32 subframe, you will still have the stock S14 shock tower width.  It is going to throw your camber WAY off unless modified...

i'll shut up now :)
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: GT-R Ben on April 09, 2005, 09:34:08 AM
I don't think there is a physical wider track at the rear.. pumped guards and a different offset wider wheel, yes. You will notice, put GTR wheels on your S13/S14 they will sit out about 10mm or so with neutral camber. On a GTR the stock wheels sit inside the guards quite a bit.. they have a +30 offset.

The reason I am pretty sure about this is because you can install a GTR diff (with small mods) + side Shafts and hubs into a normal S13 etc subframe. If the track was wider at the rear the shafts would not work.

I don't have a GTR diff at the moment. Just running the GTS-T R200 diff and small side shafts at the moment. I'm not going for huge drag race power.. so I don't think I will break shafts.. but I can quite easily swap it for GTR rear end parts when the time comes.

Now I am pretty sure you can bolt a complete GTR rear subframe into a S13..  maybe an S14 also. If memory servers me correct Robert has a GTR rear end in his 180SX?

Modding the driveshaft is the easy part. Cut/weld/balance.

I would like to know for a fact if I can fit a GTR Diff internals into a GTS-T housing.. or something to that effect..
I will probably leave my side shafts etc and just get a new mech diff (cusco or Kaaz). The idea of a GTR Diff, thicker shafts and alloy knuckles is nice though. Means you need to them get different rear shocks.

I will take some photo's of my gearbox sometime though, have to get it back on the hoist. Havn't sorted a mount yet, needs to be fabricated.

I hate talking about this.. it is so much work to fit all the bushes to the subframe/knuckles etc as well as install it all.. I really get anxious to go and rip it all out and fit GTR parts. Running slicks and doing low 10's seems to be what breaks the stock GTS-T shafts though.. my car is more or less more for the street. :)
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: Robert on April 09, 2005, 12:28:09 PM
Yeah I'm using GTR diff, half shafts and hubs in my s13.  What I did was bolt on the rear cover of a gts-t diff so it bolts into s13 subframe.  Changed the hubs by unbolting the s13 hubs off the hub carriers and bolting on the gtr ones (no need to change shocks that way).  I had a spare GTR drive shaft so I just changed the length so it fits into the s13.

GTR half shafts are the same length as S13 ones, so no problems there.
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: hybrids14 on April 10, 2005, 06:43:43 PM
thanks for the info, guys.
Title: Rb20det and 5spd in S13?
Post by: s14-240 on September 03, 2005, 07:48:35 PM
In case you still need info, I forgot to mention ages ago that if you get an rb26 clip you can use the rb26 tranny bell housing on the z32 na tranny, which is the same as the rb25 except for the bell housings.