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Author Topic: Race Buildup  (Read 839 times)

ph1

  • Guest
Race Buildup
« on: June 09, 2001, 09:53:10 PM »
kevin25
Unregistered User
(2/8/01 5:51:02 am)
Reply  Race Buildup
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 Hello Gentlemen,

As you can see, this is my first post. I have recently purchased an R32 GTR for the sole purposes of a race buildup. I was wondering about your opinions regarding my anticipated course of action, and any problems that you may forsee.

-Single Turbo Conversion - Custom based on T78 or T88,
-Large FMIC upgrade + piping,
-Complete fuel system rework including multiple Bosch (500 HP)fuel pumps with custom fuel rail plus larger injectors, approx 750 - 1000cc.
-Exedy Twin or Triple plate clutch,
-Stand alone engine management system, problably Motec at this point,
-Engine rebuild consisting of blueprint and balance,
Apex'i forged pistons and connecting rods, with metal head gasket for static C/R of approx 8.3-8.5 - 1, with necessary accessories.
-Suspension upgrades including coilover racing system (HKS or Tanabe), pillow ball mounts etc.

-obviously other minor stuff including 4" exhaust, downpipe, required safety etc etc.

Intially this car is being built for all-out drag racing power. Money is not a problem at this point.

I would appreciate your input.


 
Blaup
Melbourne Ozzy Admin
(2/8/01 8:00:50 am)
Reply  Re: Race Buildup
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 Be careful about the block cracking, as its only drag the blocks don't seem to mind high power for a short time like that but for circut racing an N1 or group A heavy wall block is required for anything over about 600hp.
A couple of tuning houses in japan have also ade the observation that the r34 block is same sort of strength of N1 block but less chance of pinehole pit holes when bored out to 87mm.

Either way i would build and just hope, N1 & r34 blocks are rare as and cost a lot. (another option also seems to be sleeves, rob & war has done some of these.

E

 
DatsunDan
Registered User
(2/8/01 8:28:57 am)
Reply  Re: Race Buildup
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 Man....

I wish I had the budget to do that!!!!
But I'd build a circuit car....  
 
Group3JTim
Registered User
(2/8/01 11:14:38 am)
Reply  Race build up....
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 I've built a circuit car (not a Skyline though..) and I wish I could say money isn't/wasn't and object. Either way good luck mate - and enjoy your first drive in the built car....its worth the wait!!  
 
Zapf
Registered User
(2/8/01 6:08:53 pm)
Reply  Re: Race build up....
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 Can someone please tell me more about sleeves? since I know SR20-DET's use them. How is the process and cost done for the RB's?

Cheers
Zap
 
vegie
Registered User
(2/8/01 8:26:41 pm)
Reply  Re: sleeves
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 sleeves are used in the bores of the sr20t as it is an alloy block..so it's sleeved with a steel liner for thepistons to run in .as far as i know all the rb's are made made of the same old cast iron
stuff as my frypan, only a bit more decorative.........
 
Zapf
Registered User
(2/8/01 10:42:05 pm)
Reply  RB Block
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 So in that case if I have a RB25 Block and want to produce in excess of 500hp from it. How do I go about making it strong enough?

Thanks
Zapf
 
Blaup
Melbourne Ozzy Admin
(2/8/01 11:46:00 pm)
Reply  Re: RB Block
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 Sleeve, well i know they use then in the 3.0L kits but rob also said he used them in some of his engines.
I don't know much about them and went down the route of getting the better block to start with.

E

 
kevin25
Registered User
(2/9/01 1:41:39 am)
Reply  Re: RB Block
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 The sleeves utilize a ductile iron or steel insert that the pistons run in, to provide less (if any) flex and support the walls under extreme combustion pressures or high boost (25-30 psi). Many machine shops will know how to do this, as long as they have the pistons and rings on hand that the motor will be built with, so correct wall clearances can be machines into the sleeves.

It seems that as I build different cars from around the world, that this is a common "weak link" in most motors, including the Honda, Nissan and Mitsubishi. I have built many Honda motors and used ductile Iron Sleeves with very few problems for street/race built motors and moderate boost pressures.

My next question is, is the R34 block interchangeable with the R32? I do intend on building a second motor that can be swapped for endurance racing, and need as much strength as possible. I would consider sleeving that block also, however, I believe that the steel sleeves will wear on rings faster, and for endurance racing, I need to be able to run near the ragged edge for extended period of times.

Any other insight would be appreciated....

Thank you for your responses.
 
Blaup
Melbourne Ozzy Admin
(2/9/01 11:02:09 am)
Reply  Re: RB Block
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 R32/R33/R34 blocks
They as far as i know are interchangable more or less.
(more or less, well the r32/r33 is for sure, r34 not as sure but i would think so, when i was asking people in japan about this nobody mentioned that there was a compatability issue)
If you can get an R34 block let me know i would love a second one to buid up an engine rather than remove the one in my car at the moment.

I think the key to the r34 block being better is the better casting technology and quality control.
Look at it this way, if you want to build a 800hp or maybe even more in japan you go and buy an N1 or r34 block. (so i have been told)

E

 
sxygtr  
Registered User
(2/9/01 12:54:14 pm)
Reply
  Re: RB Block
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 So when are you getting your GTR Blaup??
"Lifes's good at 260kmh"
 
Blaup
Melbourne Ozzy Admin
(2/9/01 1:08:46 pm)
Reply  r34 gtr's rock !
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 Well be in my possession next week some time, i took it for a drive last night....
Didn't think it was that quick... till i looked in the rear view saw how far away the cars were, looked at the speedo, it sank in that it was a 320kms/hr speedo and reasiled i was doing 160-170kms/hr in an 80 zone !
Didn't have much fuel in the car and it was peak hour so i took it back and have another drive tomorrow.

The inside is still waiting to be completed, the wireing harnes for the new stereo has been done, the rev/speed meter has been recabled and located in the ash tray, and the list goes on.

The computer is great, no inlet temp reading ? do other r34's have this or not ? i thought maybe thay removed it when they did the intercooler etc.

Boost has been wound down in the hot weather to 1.0bar, and thats running injectors at 97% ! (on jap fuel in cooler weather it could run upto 1.4 bar)
How much power should i get running the injectors like that ? (intectores should be good for like 400-450hp ?? right ?)

Seeing my accountant tuesday arvo ! it rocks !
So from here i guess i go power fc and injectors (maybe afm's) , i would love to see an r34 gtr with power fc though, i hope the computer has all the same functions and looks as good as the standard unit.

Evan

 
sxygtr  
Registered User
(2/9/01 6:28:47 pm)
Reply
  Re: r34 gtr's rock !
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 Injectors at 97% - aiiiii yoooo thats pretty damm high.. Time for some 550cc injectors Blaupy...
"Lifes's good at 260kmh"
 
Blaup
Melbourne Ozzy Admin
(2/9/01 10:17:54 pm)
Reply  Re: r34 gtr's rock !
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 No kidding !
But new injectors need new computer ! so unless anybody can convince me the power fc isn't a good thing i think it will be it. I like motec but then i can't have my computer screen thingie  

I would love to see an R34 GTR with a power fc, just to check it does all the same functions etc.

E

 
PaulGTR
Registered User
(2/10/01 12:28:55 am)
Reply  Re: r34 gtr's rock !
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 Blaup,

I remember reading a while ago somewhere on the net about the power fc not being that great a computer for the R34 with over 400hp. I have a search around and post the address so you can read up.
 
kevin25
Registered User
(2/10/01 2:08:44 am)
Reply  Re: r34 gtr's rock !
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 Guys,

I appreciate your insight, it seems as though I am heading down the right track (hehe, no pun intended). To be competitive I am targeting approx. 800-900 HP with the drag racing motor, and more a more "reliable" 500-600 HP for an endurance motor.

As far as block availability goes, I will talk with my contact in Japan, and see what he thinks the availibity and costs are for the R34 or N1 block, and post them here.

My other option that I am considering is to just sleeve both blocks. My thinking is that for the cost of an N1 or R34 block, I can have a sleeved R32 block, with money to spare. But I will check...

BTW 97% duty cycle on the injectors, wow, pretty high, personally I prefer 80% for streets and a max of 90% for race applications, last thing I want is to be at full boost and have an injector problem.... Small price to pay for bigger injectors, than to have to import a new block due to the rod pushing out the side, but that is my .02.

Thanks
 
Blaup
Melbourne Ozzy Admin
(2/10/01 10:36:56 am)
Reply  Re: r34 gtr's rock !
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 Paul,
Yes i have heard the same thing but was told that it was more like 600hp, partly due to the use of AFM's i believe, motec's etc can use manifold presure sensors map sensors, and this is what tends to be used more often.
AFM's on an r34 need to be replaced to get more than 450hp anyway, proberly with 300zx ones as they are big (but mounting issues being 80mm and not 70mm like the gtr intake)

Kevin,
Yes i know, i was just giving it a test drive, and even then i had to cut the boost down. Running on 105 octane gas is expensive (20L = $80), i need this to run on 98 octane as its a road car as well.

Back on topic of race buildups those hp figures sound good, 600hp is not that hard to get if try, interesting to see how you achive it because thats what i am looking for as well.... some day.

I want a good computer but i also want my r34 tv screen !!! it has looks value ok ! and its really got some good displays for showing lots of data.

Evan

 
SIRVROOOMMM
Registered User
(2/12/01 9:59:43 am)
Reply  Re: r34 gtr's rock !
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 hey evan
i'm using the autronic sm2 and i'll let u know how it goes,
1500k cheaper that motec but some beleive it to be better.
suppose it depends on the tuner alot.
i'm also looking for around 750hp for drag.
and 600ish for track and street!!


ICE14 ICEGTR.
 
Blaup
Melbourne Ozzy Admin
(2/12/01 11:11:30 am)
Reply  Re: r34 gtr's rock !
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 As you say it has a lot to do with the tuner more than the equirement, autronic sm2 or motec m8 take your pick or many others for that matter but the tuner has a lot to do with it when it comes to the engines performance.

A lot of the computers have similar nunmber of map points etc and mutipul maps for different fuels etc so thats much the same.
Where they differ is often of aux outputs and other little nice bits like how it hanldes idle when the aircon is switched on.

Autronic can be tuned on a track etc with a notebook while driveing like the motec ?? (incidently that is a better alternative to dyno tuning, you dyno tune the map till its 95% correct then go out on the track or where ever and drive while the tuner tunes)

E