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Author Topic: Don't let the V8's have their way! :-)  (Read 745 times)

25GTT

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Don't let the V8's have their way! :-)
« on: July 17, 2002, 03:21:00 PM »
Ok Guys!

Well like most people I have a group of friends who still haven't learnt that there is another way of getting maximum power without cubes... I call them V8 lovers!  Anyway lastnight i was confronted by my friends when i said i wanted in the future to spend a bit of money on a hiflow/hybrid turbo.

i was stumped when they actually made a smart comment ahah!! they said if you have to spend big dollars upgrading your turbo then upgrading your fuel pump and injectors for this wouldn't it be better and cheaper just to bore your engine out more?

Quite smart of them i thought then they said "besides extra PSi which will give you more power if you have your standard turbo running at 10psi and the hiflow running at 10psi will your Horspower still be exactly the same between the 2?" Obviously you would bump up the psi on the hi flow but lets say you decided not to for extra longevity??

I really didn't know what to say... these guys must have had a group gathering before i came around?!

So question a) with 10 psi on both turbos would they be the same power?
b) why don't you do what v8's do and bore it out more instead!?

lowlux

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Don't let the V8's have their way! :-)
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2002, 03:49:13 PM »
well with the turbo, it will make the same power,but itll be easier for the turbo to make that 10psi, correct me if im wrong guys, and with the boreing out question, ppl do do it, but then when u bore it out,its like a FULL rebuild isnt it, and why bother cause most of the turbo engines today can put out a **** load of power without even lifting the head, thats probably why ppl dont do it

my 2 cents

R34

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Don't let the V8's have their way! :-)
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2002, 04:35:01 PM »
Don't think that rational applies to Nissans
If you bore out a RB20 you may only increase the capacity by say 100cc.
Now a 5% increase in capacity would net you I guess 5% more power at a cost of say $4000 for the rebuild including labour etc etc.

With the turbo option that would cost you about the same but net around 50% more power.

These are only guesstimates but I think you get the idea

My R34 started with 188rwhp but after hybrid turbo/FMIC and AFC now nets 275hp on the same dyno's.

Tell your V8 friends to join this century....there is life after pushrods:)

25GTT

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Don't let the V8's have their way! :-)
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2002, 05:12:33 PM »
Hey R34,

did you get your turbo done at PSI? how much does something like that cost if you don't mind me asking for the FMIC and hybrid? that is quite a nice HP figure but is it maxxing out your injectors or Fuel pump?

What psi are you running?

Brett at PSI was saying it's not good to run the hybrid over 15psi or you will need some forged pistons, or you can wave your engine good bye...

dunno about the r34 if that can handle more psi but he said you the max would be at 18 psi with forged pistons....

not bad really!

Does that all sound right to you guys? and do forged pistons make a HP by themselves?

Soo many questions i have! :splat:

gtst4

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Don't let the V8's have their way! :-)
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2002, 05:57:28 PM »
I don't think there's any guarantee that boring out will net any additional power. Its a matter of improving the volumetric efficiency of the engine. There have been recent articles pointing out that increased boost can actually REDUCE the power output. No reason why the same couldn't be said of boring. If the cams / valves can't let the air/fuel mixture in fast enough, then the job (boring) was a waste.

Maybe a waste if you're not going to use the improved efficiency of a hi-flowed turbo. But turbocharging is the biggest bang-for-your-buck if you want more power (a GT-R engine still produces more grunt than a 5.7 V8, I think, and with less than half the capacity).

Just show them the t-shirt with a picture of a turbo and the words:

"Cubic Inch Substitute
For those that understand, no explanation is necessary
For those that don't, no explanation is possible"

Jay95R33

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Don't let the V8's have their way! :-)
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2002, 06:13:10 PM »
It is possible to get more power at the same boost in some cases.

If the stock turbo is operating outside it's effeciecy curve, then it will be heating the air more than what a high flowed one would.

And we all know that hotter air means less power.

The great thing about forced induction (turbo'd) engines, is that you don't have to rip the motor apart to get big gains.  It can be done with just bolt-ons.  :)

Silver-Arrowz

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Don't let the V8's have their way! :-)
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2002, 08:31:26 PM »
Jay is right about the turbo's efficency curve there. Turbo's may be the same size, but if they have different turbine blade designs or different housings, they have different power delivery characteristics, and hi-flow one will produce more power.

If you just boost a turbo motor, there's less hassles. Boring a motor out requires pistons to be changed, new crank in come cases, new rings. And boring the heads require new valves and valves springs, camshafts...  the list goes on.

R34

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Don't let the V8's have their way! :-)
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2002, 11:32:06 PM »
25GTT
Yes the turbo is from psi
I think he charges $1600 plus fitting
The FMIC is by Lumpy and is a beautiful job for $1800
But don't quote me on those prices they may have gone up.
Pump and injectors are fine so far.
Running 12 psi at present as I think Brett is correct ...don't push std pistons above 15psi
Forged pistons don't add power themselves they just allow more boost to be used.
Cheers