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Author Topic: GTR 4WD Drivetrain in Other Cars  (Read 2376 times)

TTOBES

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GTR 4WD Drivetrain in Other Cars
« on: June 14, 2011, 01:51:20 PM »
I saw the comments made by SteveRiellyNZ about putting the GTR 4WD drivetrain into a Corvette and that prompted me to start this thread, as I have been thinking along similar lines...

I have a UC torana, a R32 GTR front cut and a complete R32 GTR rear subframe. I had intended to put the RB26 and rear end in with a R33GTST box and run it as a 2WD.

Half way thru a box of Cody's one night I had a brain wave, as ya do, and started thinking about 4WD.:)

The Torana track width is the same as a R32 and the wheelbase is similar.
It weighs approx 1250kg complete with a 5.0l V8 although the GTR motor and box would add some to this.
The weight distribution should be similar to the GTR so the handling should be just as good once set up.

With the front subframe grafted in I have all my lower suspension arms, sway bars, steering, brakes and engine mounts, etc. The Torana front chassis rails are approx 250mm higher than the GTR's which puts the top arm mount and a shorter coil over mount at approx the same level. This would make the mounts easier to build and it is the strong point of the rail where the std crossmember bolts in.The rear subframe takes care of the same at the rear. Add a gearbox crossmember, driveshaft and connect the Torana steering columm and the basic installation is done.

I've had an initial discussion with the race car fabricator, who built the cage in my GTR, and, while not a simple, quick conversion, it will produce a car that has all the benifits of a GTR in an old school Torana.

Steve's idea of the Corvette would be a bit different as I am starting with a 32 year old car that, while they can be made to handle well, are still old technology.
Also I am replacing everything bar the shell.
The Corvette already has good suspension geometry, etc and the front suspension would require a lot of thought depending on how much of the original parts were retained.
Also the weight distribution may well change as the motor in the Vette is quite a way back in the chassis and the GTR setup will need to sit considerably further forward to line up the front driveshafts.

Definitely worth investigating tho judging by the reactions you have already had:jack:

4ever_sideways

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GTR 4WD Drivetrain in Other Cars
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2011, 03:17:47 PM »
That would make a nice project, pretty sure someone has done an S14/GTR mix before
Nothing is fool proof to a well accomplished fool.

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SteveRiellyNZ

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GTR 4WD Drivetrain in Other Cars
« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2011, 04:46:49 PM »
I think the Torana would be easier to, and there is a lot of room in the engine bay, including the height, which the C6 vette doesn't.

The Torana also came with a straight-6 yea, so its got the length there too.

Sounds like a great plan to me, and going with a bare shell build, it will be far easier to fabricate in what you need to make it all fit.
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GTS4R

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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2011, 05:03:13 PM »
Quote from: 4ever_sideways;551761
That would make a nice project, pretty sure someone has done an S14/GTR mix before


Yea Full Race make a R14 and I have seen a s13 with a 4wd rb30 going in it.

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« Reply #4 on: June 14, 2011, 06:47:38 PM »
tHE MECHANICAL SIDE IS EASY, JUST A LOT OF METICULOUS FAB WORK. IT IS THE ELECTRICAL SIDE THAT WILL BE FUN. yOU NEED THE 4wd ecu, g SENSOR AND FACTORY ecu TO COMPLETE THE SYSTEM.

Who the fukc turned on my caps lock? Apologies.
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TTOBES

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GTR 4WD Drivetrain in Other Cars
« Reply #5 on: June 14, 2011, 09:24:31 PM »
Quote from: GTS4R;551772
Yea Full Race make a R14 and I have seen a s13 with a 4wd rb30 going in it.


Yes, apparently GTRGlen has a contact who has the system up and running in an S13.

He is also a good way thru the developement of an ECU to replace the 4WD ECU. It will be much faster than even the R34 unit, include the adjustability of a 4WD controller and be virtually a plug in replacement.
In theory all I should need is the G Sensor and the required inputs from the rest of the system to make it all work. Not sure yet if that includes the ABS system or not.
I'll use a Link to run the engine so that should make the wiring easier.(or not!!)

I've seen a UC in Aussie with a RB25/R33 GST gearbox and it is a good combo and goes very well. Everything fits nicely with minor mods to the trans tunnel.
I've also seen one with the rear subframe/suspension installed and have had my subframe sitting on jacks up under the car. That end is relatively easy but the front is a bit more involved.

I will get the fabrication done by a professional as it needs to be strong, straight and square and also to make certification easier/possible...

Steve, you might find an old Mustang or Camaro an easier choice, unless you are particularly stuck on the Vettes?

SteveRiellyNZ

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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2011, 11:02:40 AM »
The vette will be my daily...I was looking at the vette for the track car if I have the time and funds.

Thinking about the retro thing more, I do like to idea of an old 65-68 mustang. Body pricing is very cheap there, and working on the exchange rate, having the engine etc shipped from here cuts down the costs nicely.
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Brett

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« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2011, 08:34:32 PM »
Hi Steve,
I read some of what you are doing on the other thread before this one
and pretty sure I missed the part of why youre wanting to run a 4WD RB30.

Wouldnt it be somewhat easier to mabey modify the trans axle, running a
drive shaft to the front using some kind of diff etc through the LS?

Since it's done on the R35 that way i'm sure, so it could be easier to get your head around?

Just saying, I could be completely wrong.

SteveRiellyNZ

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« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2011, 12:18:27 PM »
Yes, that could be potentially done. But the LS engine, overall be ok, has some "interesting" design features.
Its intake, exhaust, firing design is all wrong. Native power potential is overall lacking, which is why they usually  have to stick blowers on them.
RB engine is superior design from the start, and I can get more power, with a smaller engine ( 1/2 the capacity ) that any LS engine. That and having native 4WD makes it a total win-win for me.

What Im also looking at currently is moving the LS7 to a flat plane crank, instead of the cross plane that is has. That has some very interesting potential with response and powerband from a 7 litre engine, just working out balancing issues.
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Brett

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« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2011, 08:51:04 PM »
So you're pretty much wanting to put 4WD drivetrain under a Corvette?

Cool.

It would be pretty cool to see that,
There isnt a Lot of room under them from what ive seen
Ive been playing with one for quite a while now, even though it's a C4.

Won't you need to get a complete new crank for flat plane or can you
just seriously modify the stock one?

Flat plane crank on a 7 litre would be great..
I don't know much about the difference but it'd deffinatly change a 7 litre.
Is it done much over there, do you know?

SteveRiellyNZ

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« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2011, 05:03:25 PM »
Originally though corvette, but your right, I dont think there is the room.
So I thought old skool 65-68 Ford Mustang....now that would be cool.

As for the crank, you need a new one, and I have a source for that, and the new cams you need due to the firing order change.
It's done on race cars, but not the average street...but I think thats due to people knowing about it ( which explains a lot of arrogant responses I'm getting on the corvette forums there ), and the money involved.
Your looking at anywhere from 3500 to 5500 for just the crank and camshaft. Thats before forged light weight pistons, rods, rockers/valves to handle the potential higher revs.
I'm thinking a good USD$10k exercise....the APS Twin Turbo kit would cost me USD$17k.
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« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2011, 06:16:20 PM »
Wow, that's pretty serious!
I dont know nearly enough about them to have a full on conversation.
Oh, Try Brennan Racing in Tauranga?
That guy is rather on to it when it comes to engines and chassis.

When is all this happening?

SteveRiellyNZ

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« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2011, 06:20:38 PM »
Later this year is the plan.

Realistically it will be one or the other, and I think California restrictions will mean if the mustang conversion happens its going to be a track only car.

I'll be working on some minor tweeks to the vette first, and do the engine build over xmas or later depending on funds and actual feasibility.
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« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2011, 09:26:30 PM »
Well after talking with my mechanic, the mustang powered RB 4WD would cost a fortune, mainly in the fabrication, and the multiple certifications that it would need.
Probably twice as much as I'd want to spend ( basically $100k ), so its a rethink on this plan.
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bcr32

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« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2011, 12:25:49 AM »
Heres a 4wd VL commodore that used to be on the Aus scene a few years ago http://australianmusclecarsales.com.au/muscle_view/93427

In regards to Steves project, You know you can get a 4wd LS from the Holden Adventra/ Crewman cross8/ Coupe4 which has a similar setup to the 4wd RB engines (diff in sump) They werent offered in a manual but you can adapt the transfer case onto the back of the manual box.