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Author Topic: Dyno Questions  (Read 12146 times)

ph1

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Dyno Questions
« on: June 10, 2001, 03:37:07 AM »
Cobalt60
Registered User
(5/15/01 8:52:30 pm)
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  Dyno Questions
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*hope that pic worked*

Does this Dyno look right to you guys? I've got a R32 GTST with HKS Superdrager Exhaust, HKS SSeqential BOV, K&N Air Intake, Trust Shocks..

This seems a bit low to me.. Maybe i have some work to do

Thanks.
MARK

Edited by: Cobalt60 at: 5/21/01 1:05:59 am
 
Cobalt60
Registered User
(5/15/01 10:27:17 pm)
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  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Has anyone else got any Dyno stats they can share with me, just so i can get an idea where I stand here..  

Thanks.
MARK.
 
LeiLei
Registered User
(5/15/01 10:45:07 pm)
Reply  Re: Dyno Questions
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 hey man, different dyno would have different results, depending on how the dyno is set up, 110kw looks to be right i suppose, as a standard 25t in t/p performance dyno made 114kw. compare with other cars on the same dyno would be a good idea to see wheather 110kw is reasonable.

cheers


 
Cobalt60
Registered User
(5/15/01 10:53:38 pm)
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  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Hopefully once I get my LARGE! custom built intercooler and APEXI boost controller things will look a little more sunny for my beast.

Thanks.
MARK.

Edited by: Cobalt60 at: 5/15/01 10:54:47 pm
 
Razor GTSt
Registered User
(5/16/01 5:22:54 am)
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  Re: Dyno Questions
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Vincent Sala
SDU Sponsor Liaison
Skylines Downunder Car Club Inc.

Edited by: Razor GTSt at: 6/8/01 3:18:40 pm
 
Cobalt60
Registered User
(5/16/01 12:21:42 pm)
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  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Ahh good stuff,

Looks like my beast isn't so bad after all.. I'll have to get it serviced and tuned again soon so i may get it done again (different dyno, the other place didnt do a very good job of my car last time).

the image thing is quite easy:
when you reply to a post or add a new one, on the side of the page "under the comment title" the are some links to POST A LINK, POST AN EMAIL, or POST AN IMAGE, bascially they will tell you what to do.. make sure the site you use can be viewed by the average joe on the net.

i.e. members.dingoblue.net.au/~mschipper/pics/myr32-301101/Dyno.gif

Edited by: Cobalt60 at: 5/16/01 12:27:42 pm
 
TokBoy
Registered User
(5/16/01 1:15:47 pm)
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  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Vince,
You pulled 126kw with just filter and exhaust. Highest I've seen for a GTS-t with just those mods. Most of them are in the 110-120kw range.

I think you got 132kw with the big turbo and low boost and 142kw with big turbo and more boost.
 
Starion  
SDU Director
(5/16/01 1:48:37 pm)
Reply  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Wellington member did 142kw with filter, exhaust and bleed valve on Dynapak bolt on dyno.
 
skyless
Registered User
(5/16/01 2:15:10 pm)
Reply  Re: Dyno Questions
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 and it is an auto!running 14psi, now that engine is turning my lovely blue coolant into thick chocolate milk shake, instead of making any kw, haha blown gasket
 
Cobalt60
Registered User
(5/16/01 3:13:06 pm)
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  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Well, looks like im getting a bigger intercooler sooner than i expected.. (my car is a the crash shop) seems the standard GTST intercooler is stuffed, sounds like a great time to upgrade to me.. 600x300 intercooler here i come..

this should boost my KW  

Thanks.
MARK

Edited by: Cobalt60 at: 5/16/01 6:34:32 pm
 
Bitchn
Registered User
(5/16/01 8:14:17 pm)
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  Re: Dyno Questions
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 John Beeby's R32 GTS-T made 129.5kw ATW on Torque Performances Dyno with just a Trust filter and 3" exhaust (from the front of the cat to the back).
Our Starlet GT made 89.8kw ATW with just a Blitz exhaust, Trust filter and 12psi boost on the same Dyno. That makes 110kw from a GTS-T a little sad I think. Hmmm, maybe its those shocks? just kidding. Probably just needs a good tune.
Darryl Curran bitchn.7@xtra.co.nz
 
Cobalt60
Registered User
(5/16/01 9:35:07 pm)
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  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Bitchin,

We'll see what i can pull once the new intercooler is fitted..  

Anyone know what sort of increase i could expect?

MARK.
 
Cobalt60
Registered User
(5/17/01 11:47:55 am)
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  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Kewl.. then its time for a apexi boostcontroller and clutch..  

MARK.
 
Bitchn
Registered User
(5/17/01 9:56:13 pm)
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  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Cobalt, The intercooler should make a good improvement. You just may not notice it as much on the dyno as the airflow through it and the engine bay isn't the same. You will have to use the seat of the pants meter (or a G-tech) for that one.
Just check things like ignition lead condition, spark plugs etc, and do a compression test so then you know everything was ok or not. 110kw just seems a little low. I know my GTX went 10x better when I fitted new leads, plugs and played with the timing a little bit.
Darryl Curran bitchn.7@xtra.co.nz
 
Cobalt60
Registered User
(5/17/01 10:49:04 pm)
Reply
  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Thanks Bitchn,

I'm starting to think that maybe the mechanic i used last wasn't quite up with tuning skylines. For what ive heard from other people the mechanic mainly specialises in australian turbo cars, i wouldnt have though there would be to much difference between japanese and australian turbos.

Next service/tune i intend to take my car to a different mechanic that i have heard good things about.

when i first saw 110KW on the print out i though it was a little low. Ahh well...

I guess i will have to wait and see..

THANKS.
Mark.
 
Zapf  
Registered User
(5/18/01 12:03:16 pm)
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  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Lets talk torque...

This is from a 25T running 1Bar.



One of our members with a R33-GTR makes even more torque... like 700~800Nm

Cheers
Zapf

Edited by: Zapf   at: 5/18/01 12:07:11 pm
 
whatsisname  
Registered User
(5/18/01 12:45:50 pm)
Reply  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Zapf,
Out of interesting what gear was your dyno run done in?
What's causing the spike & dip in the torque curve?
Is it just because the boost comes on with a big rush?

The torque figures on my dyno graph are in N(Newtons) not Nm, I get 4900N (I guess that means 490Nm?) with power around 200rwkw (all runs done in 4th & the dyno is confirmed to be accurate) So either the two dyno's read differently or my car doesn't make anywhere near as much torque?
I would expect a bigger torque output from your beast as your making 30+rwkw more than me but near 700nm to 490nm is a huge difference. I know it's not a smart idea to compere different dyno's but I'm puzzled.

I'll have to get my lastest dyno sheet scanned or take a digitial pic.
 
Zapf  
Registered User
(5/18/01 5:21:03 pm)
Reply
  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Hi,
Its done in 4th gear, as people always been saying. The torque performance dyno reads on the low side. The dip the torque curve is due to the VTC system, which requires a different but intersting solution which I am still figuring out.
I guess your dyno was done at checked flag? And they use the same dyno pack system as Turbo Vechicles in Auckland? But they are expensive in Auckland like over $100 for a run.
When my car is near standard I it does about 500nm as well, so I guess its all the mods then. Check this out.

zapf001.i8.com/cgi-bin/i/...000708.jpg

Cheers
Zapf


 
whatsisname  
Registered User
(5/18/01 8:09:30 pm)
Reply
  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Zapf,
I'm in OZ (Sydney) my last tune (dyno) was done @ Croydon Autosports, MarioGTR did his 450+kw run on the same dyno & the JMS guys used it for their R34 GTR 325kw run, it's a Dyno Dynamics.
My car started out with stuff all mods & made 3000N, next lot of mods it made 3900N, more mods 4400N & finally the current figure of 4900N, I've had a look at other mildly (& no so mildly) modded GTS25t/GTS-t's Newton figures on DD dyno's & the figures all match up compared to mine, similar mods = similar torque fig's.

Have a look at these DD dyno runs on different cars as a comparo; http://www.airpowersystems.com.au/unichip/applications.html

My car will spin the 255 Falkens in 2nd gear in a straight line on dry road at will, driving along normally just push down on the throttle too much & as it comes on boost it will wheel spin (not chirp but spin!!!) So I know the torque is getting up there, my LSD & tyres are still healthy too.

Looking @ Vince’s dyno sheets from Torque he's getting around the 500nm mark too yet 142rwkw so it seems like the two different brand of dyno's read differently in terms of torque??? Stuffed if I know why but after looking at heaps of dyno sheets in Zoom / Fast Fours / Hot 4's / HPI etc.. All the DD dyno’s fig's seem to show my 4900N is a good figure.

Ahhh hell, I guess at the end of the day the way the car drives on the road is what it's all about hey  
It's good to look at everyones dyno curves though

Cheers mate & thanks for your feedback.

Matt

 
Razor GTSt
Registered User
(5/19/01 6:34:53 am)
Reply
  Re: Dyno Questions
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 The great dyno debate. This is something that has raged on for a while.

Different dyno's produce different numbers based on:

The type: Roller or hub dyno
Software
age
Manufacturer
Just to mention a few.

You can not compare dyno readings from one type to another. Our last SDU dyno day in Auckland, held at Torque Performance proved this. Cars ran on a Bosch dyno in Hamilton threw power figures at Torque's @ %20 lower on average. The torque reading were different even more.

There are only two ways to compare what your motor produces against another properly.

An engine dyno
Runs on the same dyno

Chassis dyno's are not accurate persay as an engine dyno. They are however a great media for seeing improvements or set backs with mods you do providing you use the same one every time. That and you do not have to have your motor pulled every time either  

Vincent Sala
SDU Sponsor Liaison
Skylines Downunder Car Club Inc.
 
whatsisname  
Registered User
(5/19/01 1:24:58 pm)
Reply
  Re: Dyno Questions
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 All so very true Vince  
 
rowdyrotary
Registered User
(5/19/01 3:34:40 pm)
Reply
  Allow me to shed some light on dyno's and numbers
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 There are 3 main types of dyno's kicking about out there:

Dyno Dynamics - As used in most aussie workshops, the Torque Performance dyno is also a Dyno Dymanics dyno i believe. These Dyno's read 27% less than flywheel HP.

DynoJet - These are used in most of the US workshops. They Read 15% less than Flywheel HP.

DynoPak - These are the hub dyno's used a lot in NZ. They Read 9% less than Flywheel HP.

Torque: The torque numbers shown on the Torque Performance Dyno is total crock. Torque is directly relative to HP. After all without Torque there wouldn't be HP, because this is the equation is all comes from

Horsepower (HP) = ( Torque (lb/ft) x RPM ) divided by 5250.

From the HP curve given on the torque performance dyno read outs, true Torque can be worked out simply by taking the reading every 500rpm and using this formula above rearranged to read Torque (lb/ft) = ( HP x 5250 ) / RPM

To convert Torque in lb/ft to Torque in Nm, multiple the lb/ft number by 1.356

HP to Kw: 100HP = 74.57Kw so multiple the Kw number by 1.341.

So lets use an example, Joe Blogg's Mini Cooper makes 100HP on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno. On a DynoJet dyno it will make 116HP. On a DynoPak hub dyno it will make 125HP.

Now you's will either be totally confused or much more enlightend on the subject.

Cheers
Shane


 
Cobalt60
Registered User
(5/19/01 5:53:53 pm)
Reply
  Re: Allow me to shed some light on dyno's and numbers
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 Thanks Shane,

very interesting stuff, the only question i have is what type of dyno they used for my car.. I guess thats something that will have to wait till i visit them next.  

MARK.
 
GSR32
Registered User
(5/19/01 8:33:04 pm)
Reply  Re: Allow me to shed some light on dyno's and numbers
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 I have been noticing some very interesting power curves in here.
Razor - is your curve dying off at high rpm due to fuel, would computer and fuel re-map help this? On my power curve, you can almost get a ruler out and it is a straight line all the way to 7000rpm. If I run the boost up, then I get a higher peak and a small drop off at 7000rpm, indicating that the injectors can't go any harder up there.
 
rowdyrotary
Registered User
(5/19/01 10:34:08 pm)
Reply
  Re: Allow me to shed some light on dyno's and numbers
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 Cobolt 60, i think if you read the top left corner of that dyno sheet it'll tell you what the dyno was.
 
whatsisname  
Registered User
(5/20/01 1:52:53 am)
Reply
  Re: Allow me to shed some light on dyno's and numbers
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 rowdyrotary,
Thanks for the info mate, I was crunching some numbers using the same formula myself hence me being puzzled with the torque figures vs rwkw figures.
 
TokBoy
Registered User
(5/20/01 2:33:10 am)
Reply  Dyno shmyno
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 The torque figures on a chassis dyno are the turning force at the wheels. Divide this by the final drive and then the ratio of the gear used and that gives you torque at the engine. Power will be the same regardless of gearing (ignoring the frictional losses).

The torque figures on the dyno are not an absolute reference, however they do give you an idea of the way the car behaves throught the power band.

Vince's torque (not power) curve with the standard turbo is typical of R32GTS-t's. Big rush as the torque climbs from 2000 to about 4000 rpm and then it tapers of and then there seems to be a lot less urge above 5500rpm as the torque drops away.

His big turbo is different with a constantly rising torque curve. er.. oh yeah, the torque measurement at a certain rpm/speed is proportional to the acceleration at that speed.

And just to be a geek, the torque measurement is the differential of the power measurement at a point in time.
 
rowdyrotary
Registered User
(5/20/01 9:50:07 am)
Reply
  Re: Allow me to shed some light on dyno's and numbers
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 all bar a couple of the dyno sheets i have ever seen have been on chassis dyno's yet the torque performance dyno sheets are the only one which has queer torque graphs, every other one, including the dyno dynamics in aussie give you a correct torque graph, all i ask is WHY? torque graphs are just as interesting to look at for engine enthusiasts as HP graphs are.

as the saying goes, Torque is cheap, HP costs money.
 
EVL BUNNY
Registered User
(5/20/01 12:48:42 pm)
Reply
  Re: Allow me to shed some light on dyno's and numbers
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 hey move that f**king pic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i dont care if you think its funny......
theres a million other things you could put there!!!!!!

use someone elses pic....

 
I LIKE MAKING THE TOAST...
 
R U NUTS  
Registered User
(5/20/01 1:08:30 pm)
Reply  Re: Allow me to shed some light on dyno's and numbers
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 just to add up, this is another typical r32 GTST dyno result with standard rb20det ceramic turbo :

mods including : LINK with TPS n MAP sensors, pod filter, 2xRX7 S5 i/c joint together, n 3" exhaust, blitz DSBC boost controller, n boost to 16.5psi

the torque n power drop after 5400-5500rpm bcoz the fuel pump still standard. since then i have upgraded my fuel-pump, and lately change my i/c system (the i/c n bigger pipings)



Edited by: R U NUTS   at: 5/20/01 1:19:32 pm
 
rowdyrotary
Registered User
(6/8/01 5:59:17 pm)
Reply
  Re: Dyno Questions
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 on a true Dyno sheet, HP and Torque have the same value at 5250rpm.
 
R U NUTS  
Registered User
(6/8/01 10:55:15 pm)
Reply  Re: Dyno Questions
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 rowdy,

waddya mean by "true dyno sheet" and "HP & Torque have the same value at 5250rpm" ??? Pls explain..
 
rowdyrotary
Registered User
(6/9/01 11:21:47 am)
Reply
  Re: Dyno Questions
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 Horsepower (HP) = ( Torque (lb/ft) x RPM ) divided by 5250.

if you rearrange that formula you'll find that at 5250rpm, HP = Torque